Losing connection to Router Problem

[Pistol]

Hi guys, i have another problem to share with ye i fear :s

My router last night remained connected for 9 hours without a problem. I then powercycled it this morning. It booted up fine and connected no problem.
5 mins later i loose connection to the router... ie all the lights are fine on it, power, lan, adls and ppp, all still lit. However my pc cant connect to it, even to its admin page. I have to powercycle it to get it back.. and then its ok, until it drops again...

Not sure if this is the cause but i notice it happening when i am browsing and open pages in Firefox, not always, but when it happens, i have often just tried to open a tab, most often from google. Could this be an issue? DNS or something? It has been happening on and off for about a week. Sometimes within minutes, sometimes hours.

I switched out, filter, network cable, phone line cable, have it in master socket etc.. nothing different to when it can remain connected overnight without problem..

I am using a wired connection to my lan port 1 (have 2 ports) I disabled my 2nd in case it somehow oddly gave an issue.

Given that the ppp lights do not go out, and i dont loose synch i cant see it being an IDnet problem or an exchange problem, could i be wrong?

Any ideas please? Cheers

[Rik]

I doubt it's an 'exchange side' problem (BT or IDNet), as you can connect and 'talk to' a router without plugging it into the phone.

The fact that re-booting the router cures the problem would prompt me to start there. Do you have a spare you could try, or one that you could borrow? Alternatively, it could be a cable or port problem, so another diagnostic would be to change the cable and then, if the problem persists, use a different port on the router, then the other port on the PC.

Check in Device Manager that nothing is being flagged on the network side, if the above tests haven't cured anything, consider trying to find updated drivers for the NIC.

If none of that helps, I'd delve into the TCP/IP setup, but my hunch is that it's not that.

[Pistol]

Cheers Rik. I have a spare of everything, i already tried a different router and cables and ports, both on the pc and routers. Still the same..

I do wonder if it is my drivers...

I was running Win Xp fine.. didnt have this problem.. I clean installed Vista 64bit about a week ago.. the problems happened after that.

Device manager does not indicate a problem. It says that the drivers are the most up to date. I disabled the "allow pc to power down router" option in case that was an issue.

However.. my mobo is a EVGA 680i and it came with nvidia nforce network controller software. Now.. i wasnt sure if this was causing me a problem, as the install gave more limited options in vista than it did xp. I downloaded their vista 64 bit version and installed it. I think i then uninstalled the software (for teaming and gaming qos), but the drivers remain.

I have left tcp/ip settings all auto atm. perhaps i should set details there? Willing to test/try anything cheers.

Many thanks!

[Rik]

Now you've mentioned the dreaded V word, I'm at a loss to help you more. It increasingly sounds like a driver issue to me, but as I don't use Vista, I can't offer much in the way of practical advice. In your position, my next move would probably be to stick in a NIC if you have a free slot and see if that helps. However, a Vista user will be along soon.

[Pistol]

*chuckles* cheers mate, appreciated,  even just to converse and share my woes    I dont have a spare NIC unfortunately.

just in case it helps anyone help me, here are some bits of info from my network controller properties


There are a bunch of options within the driver advanced setting, not sure what they are.

driver provider - NVIDIA
driver date 29/01/2008
driver version 67.7.6.0
location PCI bus 0, device 17, function 0
This device is working properly


Flow control - disabled (default)
interrupt moderation - enabled
ip checksum offload RX and TX enabled
jumbo packet - 1514 bytes
large send offload v1 - enabled
large send offload v2 - enabled
large send offload v3 - enabled
llow power state link speed - enabled
network address   -not present
priority and VLAN - priority enabled
receive side scaling - enabled
speed/duplex setttings - auto negotiation
TCP checksum offload ipv4 - RX and TX enabled
TCP checksum offload ipv6 - RX and TX enabled
UDP checksum offload ipv4 - RX and TX enabled
UDP checksum offload ipv6 - RX and TX enabled
VLAN id - 1
wakeonlan from poweroff - enabled


Many thanks!


ps: is it possible that errors in the router could cause it to drop?

since i last powercycled it about 30 mins ago...

RS Uncorrectable errors: 8
RS Correctable errors: 2082

[Simon]

My name is Simon, and I'm a Vista user. 

Purely a shot in the dark, as I'm not too technically adept, but are you using the manufacturers drivers or Vista's own?  I believe sometimes they can be different, and I also seem to recall something somewhere about a Vista update messing with network settings / drivers.  Sorry not to be more precise.    

[Pistol]

Heya Simon heh    Good call.. hmm.. good question too.. i think i may have used both... not sure which currently.. :s

Ok, here is a screenie of my router stats, just in case they are useful. I think i will also reinstall nvidias drivers, just in case i am using vistas, though it does say nvidia on them..

cheers again

[Rik]

ps: is it possible that errors in the router could cause it to drop?

since i last powercycled it about 30 mins ago...

RS Uncorrectable errors: 8
RS Correctable errors: 2082

Errors can cause a router to throw a tantrum, but not at that kind of level (iac, it's more a case, usually, that the noise which is causing the errors triggers a re-sync).

ISTR, but can't find right now, reading of other people with nVidia drivers experiencing problems with Vista64... Hopefully, someone will be along with a torch shortly.

[vitriol]

Normally Nvidia's drivers are bulletproof, maybe check over at Nvidia to see if they have any newer drivers.

[Pistol]

Yer right Rik, just been reading some posts re problems with my mobo network and vista too :s Oddly they are from last year..so ye would think they would be sorted now.

Vitriol, cheers, but i cant see any download from nvidia for network controller..
See, i have a mobo install disk that came with my mobo, with network elements to install from it. It wont work with vista 64 though.. So the only thing i could find to download was from evga (my mobo) but it only has network manager software and none of the other parts to the install that i had in xp.

http://www.evga.com/Support/Drivers/

So its listed as a mainboard chipset driver install. Ill try redownloading and installing it again and see.

[Rik]

I've got everything crossed for you.  It does make typing hard though.

[Pistol]

hmm, someone on evga forum posted this as a possible solution to a problem which sounds just like mine.. i wont pretend to say i understand exactly why it would be.. but ill try it now - mine was set to auto negotiate.

"Alot of these problems are caused by Auto negotiate.  Does your router have GigE?  That speed of a connection can ONLY be done when using an onboard NIC connection via Autonegotiate for Speed and Duplex.  This is why I do not use the onbaord NIC because I do have GigE but prefer to set the Speed and Duplex manually to 1000bT Full Duplex.

Try going to the properties of your connection then configure the Ethernet card. On the advanced tab scroll down to Speed and Duplex then set the value to 100bT Full Duplex.  See if the problem persists.  If that does not correct the issue, use Wireshark to capture all packets when doing a DHCP renew.  Try to get one when it is working and when it is not working for comparison. "

lol i also read... "I had the same problem, but it was driver related. The "new" drivers didn't work (the ones on the disc that came with the mobo) so I got the ones from the Nvidia website dated 2006.   "

Then someone else says DO NOT use evga drivers!  lol.... but as i said i cant see nvidias ones to use instead! ahahaaargh. ok, here we go..

woot ok i found nvidias ones!, reporting back after dl and install and reboot

[vitriol]

Click on Download Drivers

Product Type : Nforce
Product Series : Nforce 6 series
Product : Nforce 680i SLI
Download Type : Driver
Operating System : Vista 64
Language : English (US)

Click on search

The Nforce platform chipset driver includes the following components

    * Ethernet Driver (v67.74) WHQL
    * Network Management Tools (v67.74) "Sedona"
    * SMBus Driver (v4.62) WHQL
    * Installer (v5.73)
    * SataRAID Driver (v9.99.09) WHQL
    * SataIDE Driver (v9.99.09) WHQL
    * RAIDTOOL Application (v9.99.09) "Sedona"


Good luck.

edit just read that you've found them.

[Pistol]

YOU ARE GODS AMONG TECHY PEOPLE!

Thank ye guys Installing nvidias drivers and not evga's  (touch wood) looks much better...

I vote for idnetters.co.uk to run the UK. No problem is unsolvable fer them!

[Rik]

We do try, mate - well at least people tell me I've very trying. Toes crossed you've got your solution. 

[Pistol]

Sorry one last question :O   

Rik, ye mentioned about router errors before - is there a rough number of acceptable errors (per hour or something?) under which its of little concern? Or if there are more than that amount...

eg. after 2 hours 30mins of uptime i have 0 upstream errors but on downstream:



RS Correctable Errors:     15784     0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:    36    0
Bit Errors:     0     0

cheers again

ps this is also in consideration of asking for interleaving to be turned off... to improve my ping times for gaming.  I am aware if errors are too many then it will drop my speed... so trying to get an idea of the wisdom of this. If support turning it off is instant, then i guess i can just test it if they can also instantly turn it on again if need be? Cheers

edit: i rang support anyway and asked for it to be turned off. Takes 24 hours i was told. So we will see what happens. Only 24 hours to turn on again if it turns out worse fer me anyway. Cheers

[Rik]

You have about 100 errors per minute there, so personally I would leave interleaving on. My own, noisy, line seems to generate about 12 errors/minute.

If the BT software thinks it necessary, it will turn interleaving back on in a flash, so you'll know for sure quite quickly.

[Steve]

You have about 100 errors per minute there, so personally I would leave interleaving on. My own, noisy, line seems to generate about 12 errors/minute.

If the BT software thinks it necessary, it will turn interleaving back on in a flash, so you'll know for sure quite quickly.

I often wondered that Rik, as it went on automatically in the first place but has to be manually removed. So logically unlees there is a permanent "off" switch there is no point having it removed as the next burst of errors will turn it back on

[Rik]

As I understand it, Steve, there are three 'positions' for the switch. Auto is the norm, and will use interleaving only if it thinks it necessary. On is what you'd expect but Off is more a "we've turned it off manually, but if the system wants it back, it will turn it on again".

[Pistol]

Here are the pics of my BT socket.. maybe ye can make sense of them. I cant see wiring anywhere to remove :s Note there is a little BT old looking socket to the left of the larger one.. is that normal? Or i need to go into it?

with the faceplate removed




removed the 2nd part of the plate (is that the bit i shouldnt touch?)




the back of the main part had no wires attached..




cheers

[Rik]

You don't have any extensions, and thus no ring wire, connected to that faceplate. If you did, the 'signal pair' would be on terminals 2 & 5, the ring wire would be on 3. The connections on the back (the exchange pair) should read A/B if labelled.

[Pistol]

Ah yes yer right, no extensions... doh i should have thought of that heh; and yes, labelled A and B. Cheers. Ok, im a wee bit wiser and know ive done all i can now.

I still think its a network setup issue for me. Is is usual to have 2 gateway addresses? I thought i had a local one - 192.168.1.1 and my WAN one (my static ip addy)?

I just noticed there is another ip addy in the router default gateway....

[Rik]

What does ipconfig /all reveal?

[Pistol]

Ugh..just back from 30 more mins of hair tearing heh. I ended up resetting the router a couple of times and then could connect to it but vista wouldnt see the net.. Finally called IDnet and James was very knowledgeable and helpful. It came down to my router being a **** and i told him i would try resetting it one more time.. so James..if yer reading this.. Cheers and it works again now heh.  Cant believe they would hide those NAT settings though?

ps Rik, James explained the extra gateway addy and so now all seems ok...

[Rik]

That's good. 

[Pistol]

omfg...******* ******** argh! I spoke too soon. Feel like taking a bat to my router and pc. Keep losing connection to it.. now on phone to d-link "offshore"..support... ARGH! 

[Rik]

Get a 2700, Pistol.

[Pistol]

*deep breaths*... 38 minutes repeating and spelling everything out to their "support" person.... AGHRHWGGHJASRGHKJASRGHARGHA1!

Result - nothing. nada. Ill tell ye something, ill never buy a d-link again. customer support is paramount. fobbing ye off to an offshore 1st point of contact is frustrating for someone who has a bit of a clue. So they will escalate it and they will get back to me....

Rik i would definately get another... but i just shelled out far too much for this router only a week ago..   (yeah i was desperate to get connected and the router i had researched was out of stock so i had to get this one which was priced nearly 20 quid more than i could have got in online i later found out...

Crazy thing is im online now... no probs.. just sometimes..randomly it seems.. though i notice it when im in google opening a link... i lose connection.. the only way to get back online or to even see the router, even though all the router lights are still showing a connection.. is to powercycle the router.
*sigh/rant/fume/bang head*

[Rik]

Is there anyone you could borrow another router from to eliminate that from the equation?

[Steve]

Going back to XP would get rid of the possible Vista64 driver/NIC issue unless you are confident thats not the cause. Defeatist maybe but if I have a problem and can't solve it I go back to a scenario that I know used to work.Instead of power cycling the router have you tried disabling the network adaptor in Vista and then re enabling it.Hopefully this will get you reconnected back to the router.

[Pistol]

cheers fer bringing some rationality back into my rant guys!

Ok.. i have another router, the 4 year old Billion.. so ive plugged it back now. Ill leave it running and see if i have issues or not.. if not... then it must be the D-Link.. If i still have issues.. then its Vista..

Steve, yep, good idea and i tried that but it still doesnt reconnect me.

I also tried rolling back the driver for one of the lan ports to test but still no good.

The latest driver (still on the lan port im using right now) is supposedly a vista 64 bit one)

tbh i really dont want to go back to xp.. i just shelled out 60 squid for vista and some of the games i play require it as they have memory leaks in xp :s

My thought about the disconnects happening when browsing from google.. that couldnt be possible could it?

[Rik]

It would be odd, but maybe Google is putting more load on the connection in some obscure way?

[Sebby]

My thought about the disconnects happening when browsing from google.. that couldnt be possible could it?

It seems unlikely, though I guess anything's possible where computers are concerned!

[ducky22]

What you're seeing is probably an issue with the Vista firewall and your LAN drivers. Are you running SP1? This resolved the exact same problem for me. I took a tonne of researching and log sifting to identify the problem in my case :-(. Resetting the firewall to defaults was the only way to resolve it for a day or two.

I have a gigabit PCI card here which I know for a fact works perfectly in x86_64 Vista/Windows 2008. Would happily sell it for £10 including postage (was £70 roughly). Too much hardware sitting about my office!

[Pistol]

Cheers Ducky... hmm.. i actually disabled my vista firewall entirely.. and yep, on SP1.

I just read this..which sounds like what is happening to me. But then lots of others say the nforce drivers are fine... :s    Ok ill try turning firewall back to default..
"
Martog
Feb 24 2008, 05:42
You can use the nForce drivers but for the life of you do NOT install the network drivers. There is a extremely well known issue with the nVidia network driver and Vista 32bit or 64bit that was known in the betas to where the driver fails to load properly and the NIC will not work a good amount of the time when you boot up Windows. It appears fine, but there is no link. I had to reboot Vista one time with the nVidia network drivers loaded, and I tried several times rebooting to get the NIC working and it just would not. I revered back to the MS drivers, works great.

After this fiasco I am stearing glear of nVidia boards for awhile because they can't get their junk together and fix an issue that was known in the beta's of Vista. We'd be really screwed if Vista didn't have drivers built in for it and were forced to use the nVidia ones.
"


Then... i finally find something maybe useful..seems like a lot of people have been having issues

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=30251&st=20

"Its too early to tell if my latest attempt to fix the issue has actually done it, but the last few reboots have worked correctly. Sorry if someone else listed this possible fix, but what I did was reorder my network adapter priority.

Vista:
Control Panel -> Network and Sharing Center -> Manage Network Connections
once there, you need to enable the menu bar by clicking "organize" -> Layout -> Menu Bar
a menu should appear with an "Advanced" option, then click "Advanced Settings"

My disabled (#2) LAN Adapter had some how gottin to be the first thing listed. i moved LAN1 to the top, and every reboot since has been fine.

One of these days, I'll remember to disable LAN2 in the bios if its possible.

Hope that helps someone, again, its only been a couple days since I did it, so I can't be sure it fixed the problem, its just hasn't freaked out since I made the change."


wtf!! Vista had that hidden! Damnit heh. So.. my lan ports were also "back to front". Ill also now disable my 2nd lan in bios if i can. reboot and see what happens... tune in later for an update!

[ducky22]

Even for me entirely disabling the firewall didn't fix it. I had to reset the firewall to defaults and it magically worked instantly. Have only seen this problem once since SP1 tho.

I don't think the change you made will make a difference but you never know!

[Pistol]

Who knows! I sure wont be thinking its sorted now heh.. But... i have to admit, now ive done that, as soon as Vista loaded.. i saw the internet connected icon was actually already lit... that has not happened before.. always it took time to do so... so perhaps the lan ports were the issue... (cant disable the ports in BIOS, but have done in Vista now) ok.. perhaps now.. i wont disconnect.. as ever, ye can rest assured ill be posting here ranting if i do fall over ;P cheers fer keepin me company inthis guys.. yer doing a great service to preventing my insanity worsening

[Pistol]

Well, thus far (after 3 days) i havent lost connection yet I was doing so multiple times per hour before. I think it is reasonably safe to assume that it was the fact my mobo has 2 lan ports and in windows they were prioritised the wrong way around... I disabled the one i dont use and put the other first... Amazing how such a wee thing can cause such huge problems.

On another note, after all my disconnects and profile dropping way down, my line profile has just gone back up again.

Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6116 kbps

Cheers all again.

[Lance]

Great news! Now you can sit back and enjoy!

[Sebby]

Excellent news, Pistol.