Out of ideas....

[Jimbo]

Hi everyone.

Well, I give up.  My internet is officially rubbish and I just can't seem to understand it.

BT Speed Test Results
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 1344 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 350 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 319 kbps


And it's been like this for a while.  The thing that is worrying me is that the Router (2700HGV) is reporting uncancelled echo on the line and to check filters.  I plug directly to the mastersocket with a filtered faceplate (which the BT engineer fitted).  I've also tried the test socket for about 2 weeks and it's exactly the same.

The only thing plugged in is the phone.  I unplugged this, rebooted the router and the message went away.  So I plugged the phone back in, rebooted again and...... message did not return either. 

So is it the phone or not?!  Everything on the internet about uncancelled echo says it has to be something connected, but I don't have anything else!

The line held for 3 hours last night at sync rate of 1280kbps before dropping and then syncing again at 1344kbps.

Another bizarre thing, I can't seem to sync anywhere near as high as I have done in the past.  Sometimes I'd get lucky and hit 2Mb.  Now it seems like I hang around the 1Mb mark all the time.  Am I being restricted??? The router still reports my downstream rate cap at 8Mb.

I've given up with BT as my next door neighbour has similar bad internet and his dad works for BT.  Basically after talking with him he's said, they won't do anything about the poor speed.  If I get 1Mb then that's it.  I live right on the edge of the exchange.  But to put it in perspective for the last 2 weeks or so I've had days and days where I've been connected at anywhere betwee 400kbps - 800kbps.  shockingly bad and really slow. 

My attenuation is constantly around 60dB now and the SNR is about 15dB.

So.... my BT Speedtest results.  Why so poor?  AND the uncancelled echo.... where's that coming from?

I have bought a 565v6 Speedtouch router 2nd hand on the internet to try and use the DMT Tool to see if I can get any improvements.  But to be honest I'm sick of all this now.

I keep thinking I should get back on to IDNet but it's always the same..... can't find anything wrong, we can get BT out.  And we all know how that will go. 

Any ideas please!?? 

[Rik]

What is your downstream attenuation and noise margin, Jimbo?

[Jimbo]

Hi Rik, as requested....

Protocol:   G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate:   1344 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   19.0 dB (Downstream) 14.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


Thanks.

[Rik]

Sorry, just realised they were in your original post. 

That margin is where your speed has gone to, Jimbo - you've lost about 1500-2000k in sync speed against a normal target NM of 6db. The fact the margin has been increased suggests that the BT software has deemed your line unstable, which does appear to be the case from what you say. A line of that length can perform better, but we are into the intangibles of line quality, which isn't revealed by the stats. I'm guessing yours is old, with a lot of joints and gradually degrading. Unfortunately, BT are not required to do anything about it and generally don't until there's a major fault.

IDNet are unlikely to be able to get anything done, but it's worth asking. OTOH, you might want to phone and report a voice fault (don't mention broadband at all) of intermittent crosstalk, that is, you can hear other people's phone calls occasionally. The standard BT cure for that is to swap the pair - it might just produce an improvement.

As to the uncancelled echo, could you try using a different phone for a while?

[Steve]

I think another router is worth a shot if only just to rule out problems with 2wire.If you try dmt tools with the speedtouch you will need one of the earlier firmwares to manually adjust your SNR.Its doesnt work with the later versions. Sorry if I am telling you how to suck eggs

[Jimbo]

   It get's bloody worse!!  Since posting this topic, and coming back my internet has re-sync'd again..... to an AMAZING SUPER FAST SPEED of...

544kbps




Protocol:   G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate:   544 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   24.0 dB (Downstream) 18.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.8 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


24.0dB is that like a new record?!

I was just about to email IDNet and realised I could not send the email... now I can see why.  What's going on!!  I have now sent the email asking if they can read this topic.

[Rik]

Is it raining where you are, Jimbo? I'm just wondering if water is getting into the cable.

The 24db indicates that noise has improved since your last re-sync, btw.

[Jimbo]

Is it raining where you are, Jimbo? I'm just wondering if water is getting into the cable.

The 24db indicates that noise has improved since your last re-sync, btw.

Is 24dB better???  I thought that a lower number was better.... 6dB or something like that.  Knowing me I'm probably very confused with all this.


To answer your question Rik, it's not raining.  It's actually Sunny with blue sky (if a little windy).  It was pouring yesterday though.

So I take it 24dB is good?

EDIT:  I have always mentioned to IDNet support that (in the past) the internet is quicker when sunny.... if that helps.

[Rik]

24db is actually bad but good, Jimbo. Your target NM, the level at which the DSLAM will sync with your router, is set to 15db. Immediately after a re-sync, that's the figure you should be seeing. If it then increases, it indicates that there was excessive noise at the time of the sync, in this case 9db, and the source of that has now gone, hence an increased NM. That suggests to me that either you have some issue with the line, eg bad joints, or it's routed past a source of electrical noise, eg a large electrical motor.

[cavillas]

You're not connected inadvertently to a party line or via a DAC connection?  Just an obscure thought from the past

[Rik]

There would be no sync at all that way, Alf.

[Sebby]

Is 24dB better???  I thought that a lower number was better.... 6dB or something like that.  Knowing me I'm probably very confused with all this.


To answer your question Rik, it's not raining.  It's actually Sunny with blue sky (if a little windy).  It was pouring yesterday though.

So I take it 24dB is good?

EDIT:  I have always mentioned to IDNet support that (in the past) the internet is quicker when sunny.... if that helps.

The target is 6dB by default, but yours has been pushed up. The router will initially sync at a rate to achieve the target SNRM, but of course, the noise will change following the sync, and in your case, it's improved. If you re-sync now, you'll get a lot more sync and the SNRM will be lower. But, if noise worsens, the SNRM will drop further, and you may lose sync if it gets too low.

[Jimbo]

I'm really confused.   So, to recap.  There is/was noise on the line (probably because the line is degraded and old).  When the connection dropped, and tried to re-sync earlier, there was more noise on the line so the Noise Margin was pushed up to 24dB.  Obviously the higher this value = a lower sync speed?

So will it ever drop back down to say a more ideal value of 6-9dB?  Or am I better off waiting for my other Router to arrive and try altering it with the DMT Tool.

The problem is holding a connection for it to drop I guess.  I could re-sync the router again now, but I can't hold a connection for more than a few hours or a day.  No way will it ever do it automatically....

[Rik]

Hi Jimbo

The line would have re-trained at 15db, but by the time you looked at your stats, the noise had decreased and so the margin had increased. From what you say of your line you have little chance of ever returning to a 6db target margin - to do so, you need to be able to maintain sync for 15 days or so at a time. In theory, if you do that, the target NM will be lowered by 3db. Any drop in sync, however, stops that happening and, iac, BT often seem to decide that if you margin has been raised then it needs to be at the higher level. They generally refuse to reset it manually, and will only do so in the event of a diagnosed fault which has been cleared.

You are right, therefore, that it's unlikely to happen in your case, nor would you want it to as it would make your line even more unstable. Use of the DMT tool will usually prevent the BT software functioning.

[Jimbo]

Hmmm I don't know what to do then.  It's never been right since the telegraph pole was knocked down.  A local farmer hit it with his tractor, and then, just used his own "spare" cable to replace it with.  BT never came out and I doubt it is a BT certified cable.   

[Rik]

Then complain to BT, Jimbo, particularly if you can prove that. Either do it directly, as a voice issue, or through IDNet as a broadband issue.

[Jimbo]

Then complain to BT, Jimbo, particularly if you can prove that. Either do it directly, as a voice issue, or through IDNet as a broadband issue.

I'll see what IDNet says.  I may call BT also.  But I can't really "prove" it now.  I guess I could just tell BT but would they send someone out to investigate just on my word.  We shall see.

[Rik]

Can you photograph the cable/joints in close up? That might provide enough evidence.

[Steve]

As I understand it??? If you  use DMT tool and maually set the margin to say 12 instead of 15 you may obviously get a higher sync but if this margin does not give enough overhead for your line noise you will then disconnect.

[Jimbo]

  Why is nothing easy.

So I call BT.... "sorry we can't help as the number you are calling from is not with BT".

Well yeah I know that, but I want to talk about your line outside the house.

"Sorry, no, goodbye"!

Phone my phone provider..... "sorry we can't help as clearly your phone is working ok.  Try talking to BT."

So I phone IDNET.... closed.

   

[Sebby]

If someone has repaired the wiring on the telegraph pole (which they shouldn't have done) I suspect BT would be able to spot this pretty easily.

[Rik]

So I phone IDNET.... closed.

They always are at the weekend, Jimbo. Give them a ring tomorrow, or drop them an email and point them at this thread.

[Jimbo]

Well I rang BT and asked to speak to someone else.  Managed to get the fault logged, took all my details and she said someone would come to investigate!  Fingers crossed!!!! 

[Sebby]

Just be aware of the charge if a BT engineer has to come out and they find no fault (£160 + VAT, I believe).

[Jimbo]

Just be aware of the charge if a BT engineer has to come out and they find no fault (£160 + VAT, I believe).

Just had a call back, someone will be out tomorrow to investigate.

Well I doubt I'll be paying.  I haven't done anything, I've just reported the problem.  We'll see what happens tomorrow anyway.

I've got every finger and toe crossed that they find a problem and replace the line! 

[Rik]

I'll join you, Jimbo. 

[Jimbo]

I'll join you, Jimbo. 

Haha cheers!  I'm not letting them go tomorrow until something is done.    I'm going to explain everything to them.  I just pray the person that comes is understanding... 

[Rik]

In my experience, if you're friendly towards BT engineers, they're helpful people.

[Glenn]

1st thing I do is to ask if they want a drink, then tell them the symptoms I get on the line.

[Jimbo]

Thanks guys.  Yeah definately.  Cups of tea and coffee all round. 

I'll post back tomorrow with what they say.

[Rik]

 

I do just the same as Glenn - it makes a world of difference I find.

[Sebby]

Best of luck.

[Jimbo]

Sigh!

Bloke came out first thing this morning.... but was only here to inspect the pole.  I said, look, it's the cable with the issue.  When I told the lady on the phone I said the pole was back in the ground and had been for a good few months.

So this chap couldn't do anything to help and said I had to re-raise the call with BT. 

BUT.  IDNet have promptly replied to my email (thanks!) and said that they will re-raise a query to bt for intermittent sync.  And will update me when I hear back.

So should I wait... or go ahead and log the fault with BT again???

[Rik]

See what IDNet can do first, Jimbo.

[Jimbo]

See what IDNet can do first, Jimbo.

Roger that.  I replied to the email from IDNet saying hopefully they'll have more joy with BT than me.  Just seem to be going in circles at the moment. 

[Rik]

It's always a problem when dealing with BT, as the separation of the business has made it less easy for the customer to get anything done.

[Jimbo]

Yeah it's just frustrating though mate.  Hey ho!  I won't give in. haha. Oh and router information for today incase anyone gives a damn. lol

Internet has dropped 4 times today.

Currently @1760kbps (that's better! but won't last I know...)

Current Noise Margin:   15.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)

So, if I understand correctly as I'm trying to get my head around this lingo. But as the speed increases your noise margin decreases.  Is that correct?  If some kind fellow could explain in lamens terms (SNR, SNR Margin, Attenuation.... and what values are good, that would be ideal!)

Thanks.

[Rik]

Signal to noise ratio defines how 'loud' the signal is against the background noise on the line. It's expressed in db, like most values.

In practice, though, we have no idea what the SNR is, instead we use noise margin, however that may be labelled. The margin is the degree of headroom the signal has over the noise, it's a quantity rather than a ratio. Think of it as filling a vessel three-quarters full. The liquid to space ratio would be 3:1, but the space would be 25% (unfortunate that I use an analogy with two different units, but you get my drift. )

That headroom is the absolute minimum amount of signal that the router needs to work. In practice, it's a bit more flexible, and most routers will work if the noise margin creeps down. There comes a point, however, at which it can't tell signal from noise and so resets the connection.

In general terms, the lower the attenuation, the faster the speed your line is capable of. Initially, a new Max connection will be given a target NM of 6db, and the DSLAM will sync with the router as fast as it can for that noise margin. As a line trains and in general use, the DSLAM may adjust the target noise margin if it detects instability in the connection, and that's what's happened to you - it's been raised to the maximum value of 15db (it goes in 3db steps). Each 3db costs you 5-700k of connection speed.

In an ideal world, you'd want attenuation as low as possible, practically that means in the teens, with a full speed (8128) sync, and a noise margin as high as possible. If you had a sync of 8128 with a NM of 15db, it would mean your line was working with extra headroom and could easily run flat out.

Just to complicate the issue, BT also uses interleaving and error correction on poor lines, and this will improve stability, but it increases your ping times, or latency.

[Jimbo]

Awesome Rik.  That's much clearer.  8)

Just to say, I totally don't have any issue or blame IDNet for any of this poor speed.  IDNet are great, and offer great service and support!!   

[Rik]

The vast majority of problems we see are purely down to the creaking BT infrastructure. When IDNet do get it wrong, they'll hold their hands up and say so. It's why we like them so much.

[drummer]

Thanks for that SNR description Rik as I've now finally got it, despite you trying to educate me on this in the past.

*Sound of penny dropping*

Mucho Karmico.

[Sebby]

SNRM and all that surrounds it is a weird concept, and certain one that I found difficult to grasp, but it makes sense in the end.

It's things like target SNRM that make matters confusing; one person is telling you that a high SNRM is good, and then the next says that the target is 6dB. Both are true, but there's more to take into consideration.

(That's just an example, by the way!)

[Rik]

Thanks for that SNR description Rik as I've now finally got it, despite you trying to educate me on this in the past.

*Sound of penny dropping*

Mucho Karmico.

Thanks, Drummer. 

[Jimbo]

Just to update.  IDNet, fantastic as always are getting an Engineer out.   I may, or, may not be charged but they think it could be an old overhead line with alumnium in it.  So just waiting on a time and day now.

Woo hoo!

[Rik]

Overhead and aluminium. Not a nice combination, Jimbo. ;(

[Jimbo]

Overhead and aluminium. Not a nice combination, Jimbo. ;(

Do you know much about why alumnium does not work?  I just know that most cables are copper... guess it's all do to with conductivity and stff.

[Sebby]

Overhead and aluminium. Not a nice combination, Jimbo. ;(

Unless it's a plane.

[Rik]

 

[Sebby]

[Simon_idnet]

I've got another analogy to illustrate noise margin for you:

Suppose we are having a conversation in a field and you're standing 40 yards
away. I'm shouting so you can hear me. But because you're so far away I'm
shouting quite slowly so you can pick-up my words. Now, suppose there's a
main road next to the field. When traffic comes by I might have to slow down
even more and maybe repeat some words that got lost. Then a convoy of
lorries goes by. I have to give up for a bit and then start the last
sentence again from the beginning.

The noise margin works like this:

The Exchange transmits at a certain volume (I've yet to be able to find out
exactly what the level of the signal strength is that the Exchange actually
does transmit at, but that's academic), let's call it 100dB. Some of the
signal is lost in the telephone wire - the longer the wire, the greater the
loss, known as attenuation, measured in dB. Suppose you're on a line that
has a signal loss of 40dB. That leaves you with 60dB of signal strength to
use for data which therefore dictates the speed (bandwidth) that your line
can operate at.

However, all phone lines act as aerials and pick-up electrical
interference - noise. So, some of that bandwidth is reserved as a buffer to
soak up the background noise. This is because a slower, stable connection is
preferable to a fast, flaky connection. The starting point for the size of
the buffer is 6dB (this is the Target Noise Margin). We're now left with
54dB to use for data traffic, thus your speed is slightly lower than a
perfect, crystal-clear phone line could achieve.

As long as the background noise doesn't exceed 6dB you've got a perfectly
stable connection. But if there is a burst of noise that is greater than 6dB
then your router will be unable to maintain its lock on the signal from the
Exchange and it will lose its synchronisation - it will have to reconnect.
If the reconnect takes place while the high noise is still present then your
router will have to negotiate a slower speed (i.e. higher noise margin) with
the Exchange.

If the Exchange detects that your line is susceptible to these high noise
events and thus frequent reconnects then it will reset the target noise
margin for your line to be higher than 6dB. If it is set at, say, 15dB then
you're now down to 45dB of signal from Exchange that is reaching you and
therefore your speed is slightly slower again.

So, to be stable a noisy line needs a higher noise margin and will therefore
run slower.

Regards
Simon

[Inactive]

That was good Simon, even I can understand that..now stop shouting.. 

[Rik]

Do you often hold conversations in fields, Simon?

[Inactive]

Apparently so Rik, but he has this cheapo power washer to remove the evidence.

[Rik]

I remember it well - it's probably that which keeps spiking his noise margin.

[Steve]

So its a bit like talking to someone who's deaf, first you speak loudly and then if that fails you speak slower and louder still. Then we have the "Tiscali effect"  it doesn't matter how loud you shout or how slow you speak I will refuse to listen to you after five o'clock and there is no point in repeating yourself.

[Rik]

 

[Steve]

Thanks, I apparently suffer from selective deafness, presumably when the wife shouts I interpret this as a noise spike and my connection drops,I then reconnect, subsequently she shouts even louder at which point the pain in my ears forces me to respond.

[Sebby]

Thanks, Simon.

[Jimbo]

Hey guys n gals.

Just a small update.  So the Engineer arrived as requested (thanks IDNet + BT!).  Spot on bloke, my parents were telling me he was very good and chatty.  He was around for 2 and a half hours! 

Anyway, it definately looks like a problem somewhere as he wasn't happy with his results.  So he's coming back tomorrow hopefully with an extra Engineer and they are going to try and trace the problem.  He said it's a big job as it could be a small part of the line, or a connection, etc.  Apparently though further down the line it goes underground!  So that will be a nightmare.... but he thinks there is something wrong.

So I'm pleased!  Some positive action in progress.  One thing that shocked me... BT say my line is good for only 1Mb.  He seems to think I should be getting 3Mb!  8)  If I do, I'll be happy as larry!! 

Update to follow. lol

Thanks!

[Simon]

Thanks for the update, Jimbo, and best of luck with the second visit! 

[Sebby]

It's good news that they believe there is a problem. Fingers crossed.

[Rik]

Let's hope they don't pull the 'too expensive to fix' routine. 

[Jimbo]

*Update*

Well, they were back out today after a little hickup... apparently the call was closed (not by IDNet, but by BT).  But anyway... they came back out a little later than expected to do testing.  And, test they did!  They were out and about outside for about 6 hours!!

They found some small problems, but believe the main problem is the line which was knocked down.  Unfortunately, the chap said BT won't just "replace it".  So if it were to break  or if we (as in myself and our neighbour) were to keep logging calls through our ISP's, then BT will eventually replace the line.

At the moment, my line seems to have gone bad again.  Stats below:-

Downstream Rate: 480 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   23.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   61.0 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


However, I hope this is just because the line and phone have been off all day, due to the work being carried out.

I'm going to give it a week, see what stats and speed are like.  If they are no better, I'll be back on to IDNet for an Engineer again.

So I guess we'll see.... AGAIN!

[Sebby]

That looks really bad. So are BT saying they won't replace the drop cable?

[hairyman]

Hi

Couldn't the overhead cable "fall down again" or maybe a tree branch fall on it. Sub contract the job to a Squirrel with cable cutters?

Isn't it amazing that we spend our fortunes on supporting near criminal actions from bankers and the gambling on stocks, waste billions a day in Iraq and Afghanistan but cannot support our pensioners or manufacturing industry properly or invest in a proper communications system ? 

As I drive around I am always staggered at the number of overhead cables in both my town and others  all cabling including 240V stuff in the older roads is in the air. I dont think overground gas pipes would be to popular even though gas came before electricity in most towns. I liked the old gas street lights does anyone remember them?

I have a high attenuation on my short ( less than 1km all underground) line at 38db also it is noisy and getting any action from BT seems nearly impossible. It has taken BT over three years to do nothing about it.
I would have assumed that repairing your overhead line properly would be as cheap as chips especially as they spent 6 hours doing **** very little on their last visit to you.

Keep at them both via Idnet and your voice line provider. How about you investigate Idnets beta voice line service which I remember from a short while back. That way you could make yr complaints a "one stop shop".

Good Luck.

Moto- Nil illegitimous carborundum (ie  Dont let the b**t**ds  grind you down)
     

[Lona]

Don't know where you live Jimbo but I had the same problem as you and I kept at BT until they eventually changed the line.

It appeared that when they upgraded the lines in our street mine had been overlooked but nobody would listen to me until one engineer actually agreed with me and the line got changed.

[Rik]

I wonder whether it would be worth reporting a voice fault of intermittent cross talk, Jimbo?

[Sebby]

I wonder whether it would be worth reporting a voice fault of intermittent cross talk, Jimbo?

They probably won't replace the cable, though. Just switch the pair, which may or may not help.

[Rik]

I was just hoping they might regard the cable with some suspicion in the process...

[Sebby]

Wishful hoping, after all, it is BT.

[Rik]

I know, but I'm an eternal optimist - except when I'm being pessimistic.

[Sebby]

[Jimbo]

Thanks for all the support and help! 

My internet tonight is:-

Downstream Rate: 736 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   26.0 dB (Downstream) 11.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   61.1 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)

It's hard to tell if it's getting better. lol.  I'll leave it like I say, for a few days and see what happens.

Thanks again everyone!

[Rik]

It's a bit better, Jimbo, but certainly not stellar.

[Sebby]

A 26dB noise margin suggests there's some significant noise fluctuation going on, which is causing you to sync low. A resync now should yield you a lot more sync, but if the noise then increases again (which no doubt it will) you'll just lose sync.

[Jimbo]

It's getting better.   

Downstream Rate:   1632 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   8.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)

[Rik]

I suspect it's nearing optimum for that line length, Jimbo.

[Inactive]

Looking good Jimbo..

[Sebby]

Yep, that looks more sensible.

[Jimbo]

lol spoke too soon.

Downstream Rate:   256 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   13.0 dB (Downstream) 16.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.9 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)



What the devil is going on?! 

[Sebby]

It looks like the noise is really fluctuating. I don't really know what else to say. If you've tried the test socket and the results are the same, it's a line problem and you need BT to look at this.

[Jimbo]

Yeah I'll get back on to get this sorted.

People are probably sick of me posting now anyway. haha. 

[Simon]

Not at all Jimbo, but it sounds like you need to make BT sick of you calling, so they fix it! 

[Sebby]

People are probably sick of me posting now anyway. haha. 

Not in the slightest. We want you to get this sorted as much as you do.

[Rik]

Which is why we're calling in Royal Mail...

[Sebby]

[Jimbo]

Back again guys.  Emailed IDnet again tonight asking for an engineer again.  The internet is x10 worse than before.  Tried to download a small trailer tonight and it was going at ~5KB/s. 

My stats since the 16th October (when the Engineer left) have been:-

16-Oct
------

Downstream Rate: 480 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   23.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   61.0 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


17-Oct
------

Downstream Rate: 736 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   26.0 dB (Downstream) 11.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   61.1 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)



18-Oct - 11:15am
------

Downstream Rate:   1632 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   8.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


18-Oct - 9:00pm
------

Downstream Rate:   256 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   13.0 dB (Downstream) 16.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.9 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


19-Oct - 11:00am
------

Downstream Rate:   800 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   15.0 dB (Downstream) 18.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.7 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


22nd Oct
------

Downstream Rate:   832 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   18.0 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)

[Sebby]

The variation in noise is what really stands out. On 18 Oct at 11.15am you're sync'd at roughly the rate you should be achieving. All of the others show a really high noise margin and low sync; obviously there are bursts of noise that are causing the router to lose sync and re-sync at a low rate to compensate, and then of course the noise goes on to disappears, leaving you with a high margin again.

[Rik]

I agree, Seb. Be careful of pushing too hard, Jimbo, as BT could just turn round and condemn the line, in which case you would not be able to get ADSL at all.

[hairyman]

Hi Jimbo

Was your line better before the "farmer replaced the damaged cable with his spare  bit" or did you not have bb then.

You might ask IDnet to put you on a 2meg fixed service ( assuming you are on 8meg MAX now), I understand there is no IPprofiling on a fixed 2meg service so yr rate will pick up as soon as the "noise" goes. The IPprofile on 8meg max can take days to weeks to recover due to BTs c**p software.

Other than that how about wireless 3G for yr broadband if you have good radio coverage?

[Jimbo]

Hi Jimbo

Was your line better before the "farmer replaced the damaged cable with his spare  bit" or did you not have bb then.

You might ask IDnet to put you on a 2meg fixed service ( assuming you are on 8meg MAX now), I understand there is no IPprofiling on a fixed 2meg service so yr rate will pick up as soon as the "noise" goes. The IPprofile on 8meg max can take days to weeks to recover due to BTs c**p software.

Other than that how about wireless 3G for yr broadband if you have good radio coverage?

Hi mate

I can't honestly remember, but it was never this bad...  So I definately think it has become slowly worse and worse.  I mean I'm not asking a lot (lol, well I don't think I am)... I'd be over the moon with a stable 2meg service, which translates to like ~250KB/s download speed???

I'm sure I tried the fixed 1Mb service in the past and that was fine, it maybe something to consider?  A fixed 2Mb service.  It could work.

I don't think wireless 3G would work, we live in the dip of a valley so coverage will probably not be the best, but this is speculation as I've never looked into it.  I don't even use the net on my phone (which supports 3G) so I don't have like a coverage report for that.

Ideally, I say, replace the cable.  See what happens, if it's better (which I believe and the engineer believe it will be) then perhaps consider a fixed service or continue with the Max.  

[hairyman]

Hi Jimbo

I think a fixed 2meg service might help as your rate will recover after a noise occurrence as it is not profiled in BT software like MAX.

Noise on my line has driven my IPprofile down to way below 500kbps yet it syncs at 6500kbps all on 8meg Max service which I have had for 2 and a half years. It then recovers to 5000kbps IPprofile after several days /weeks.

Before MAX, over  about 2 years I had a 2meg fixed service and before that 512kbps fixed. The fixed services worked fine and always gave full rates ie 2meg gave 1800k throughputs. Sadly BT have not upgraded my exchange so massive congestion cause my throughputs to mostly be 500kbps even when the IPprofile is 5meg!! and sync 6500k.  I never noticed any major speed drops on the two fixed services but back then not many were on broadband either.

What I am saying is that a fixed service on a long and or noisy line will recover as soon as the noise goes (maybe after a reboot of the router?) whereas MAX will take forever especially if the noise is every day or worse. Maybe you could talk to IDnet about a fixed service I know they can arrange it.

I understand LLUs ( O2/Talk Talk / Orange etc) dint use this profiling on the line on their 8meg plus services.

[Sebby]

Jimbo, did you ever mention to BT about that cable damaged by the farmer?

[Rik]

It's worth mentioning that BT wouldn't countenance a fixed 2Mbps rate for your line, Jimbo. At best you'd get 1Mbps, but they might insist on going to 512k.