Out of ideas....

[Jimbo]

Hi everyone.

Well, I give up.  My internet is officially rubbish and I just can't seem to understand it.

BT Speed Test Results
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 1344 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 350 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 319 kbps


And it's been like this for a while.  The thing that is worrying me is that the Router (2700HGV) is reporting uncancelled echo on the line and to check filters.  I plug directly to the mastersocket with a filtered faceplate (which the BT engineer fitted).  I've also tried the test socket for about 2 weeks and it's exactly the same.

The only thing plugged in is the phone.  I unplugged this, rebooted the router and the message went away.  So I plugged the phone back in, rebooted again and...... message did not return either. 

So is it the phone or not?!  Everything on the internet about uncancelled echo says it has to be something connected, but I don't have anything else!

The line held for 3 hours last night at sync rate of 1280kbps before dropping and then syncing again at 1344kbps.

Another bizarre thing, I can't seem to sync anywhere near as high as I have done in the past.  Sometimes I'd get lucky and hit 2Mb.  Now it seems like I hang around the 1Mb mark all the time.  Am I being restricted??? The router still reports my downstream rate cap at 8Mb.

I've given up with BT as my next door neighbour has similar bad internet and his dad works for BT.  Basically after talking with him he's said, they won't do anything about the poor speed.  If I get 1Mb then that's it.  I live right on the edge of the exchange.  But to put it in perspective for the last 2 weeks or so I've had days and days where I've been connected at anywhere betwee 400kbps - 800kbps.  shockingly bad and really slow. 

My attenuation is constantly around 60dB now and the SNR is about 15dB.

So.... my BT Speedtest results.  Why so poor?  AND the uncancelled echo.... where's that coming from?

I have bought a 565v6 Speedtouch router 2nd hand on the internet to try and use the DMT Tool to see if I can get any improvements.  But to be honest I'm sick of all this now.

I keep thinking I should get back on to IDNet but it's always the same..... can't find anything wrong, we can get BT out.  And we all know how that will go. 

Any ideas please!?? 

[Rik]

What is your downstream attenuation and noise margin, Jimbo?

[Jimbo]

Hi Rik, as requested....

Protocol:   G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate:   1344 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   19.0 dB (Downstream) 14.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


Thanks.

[Rik]

Sorry, just realised they were in your original post. 

That margin is where your speed has gone to, Jimbo - you've lost about 1500-2000k in sync speed against a normal target NM of 6db. The fact the margin has been increased suggests that the BT software has deemed your line unstable, which does appear to be the case from what you say. A line of that length can perform better, but we are into the intangibles of line quality, which isn't revealed by the stats. I'm guessing yours is old, with a lot of joints and gradually degrading. Unfortunately, BT are not required to do anything about it and generally don't until there's a major fault.

IDNet are unlikely to be able to get anything done, but it's worth asking. OTOH, you might want to phone and report a voice fault (don't mention broadband at all) of intermittent crosstalk, that is, you can hear other people's phone calls occasionally. The standard BT cure for that is to swap the pair - it might just produce an improvement.

As to the uncancelled echo, could you try using a different phone for a while?

[Steve]

I think another router is worth a shot if only just to rule out problems with 2wire.If you try dmt tools with the speedtouch you will need one of the earlier firmwares to manually adjust your SNR.Its doesnt work with the later versions. Sorry if I am telling you how to suck eggs

[Jimbo]

   It get's bloody worse!!  Since posting this topic, and coming back my internet has re-sync'd again..... to an AMAZING SUPER FAST SPEED of...

544kbps




Protocol:   G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate:   544 kbps
Upstream Rate:   448 kbps
Channel:   Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:   24.0 dB (Downstream) 18.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:   60.8 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)


24.0dB is that like a new record?!

I was just about to email IDNet and realised I could not send the email... now I can see why.  What's going on!!  I have now sent the email asking if they can read this topic.

[Rik]

Is it raining where you are, Jimbo? I'm just wondering if water is getting into the cable.

The 24db indicates that noise has improved since your last re-sync, btw.

[Jimbo]

Is it raining where you are, Jimbo? I'm just wondering if water is getting into the cable.

The 24db indicates that noise has improved since your last re-sync, btw.

Is 24dB better???  I thought that a lower number was better.... 6dB or something like that.  Knowing me I'm probably very confused with all this.


To answer your question Rik, it's not raining.  It's actually Sunny with blue sky (if a little windy).  It was pouring yesterday though.

So I take it 24dB is good?

EDIT:  I have always mentioned to IDNet support that (in the past) the internet is quicker when sunny.... if that helps.

[Rik]

24db is actually bad but good, Jimbo. Your target NM, the level at which the DSLAM will sync with your router, is set to 15db. Immediately after a re-sync, that's the figure you should be seeing. If it then increases, it indicates that there was excessive noise at the time of the sync, in this case 9db, and the source of that has now gone, hence an increased NM. That suggests to me that either you have some issue with the line, eg bad joints, or it's routed past a source of electrical noise, eg a large electrical motor.

[cavillas]

You're not connected inadvertently to a party line or via a DAC connection?  Just an obscure thought from the past

[Rik]

There would be no sync at all that way, Alf.

[Sebby]

Is 24dB better???  I thought that a lower number was better.... 6dB or something like that.  Knowing me I'm probably very confused with all this.


To answer your question Rik, it's not raining.  It's actually Sunny with blue sky (if a little windy).  It was pouring yesterday though.

So I take it 24dB is good?

EDIT:  I have always mentioned to IDNet support that (in the past) the internet is quicker when sunny.... if that helps.

The target is 6dB by default, but yours has been pushed up. The router will initially sync at a rate to achieve the target SNRM, but of course, the noise will change following the sync, and in your case, it's improved. If you re-sync now, you'll get a lot more sync and the SNRM will be lower. But, if noise worsens, the SNRM will drop further, and you may lose sync if it gets too low.

[Jimbo]

I'm really confused.   So, to recap.  There is/was noise on the line (probably because the line is degraded and old).  When the connection dropped, and tried to re-sync earlier, there was more noise on the line so the Noise Margin was pushed up to 24dB.  Obviously the higher this value = a lower sync speed?

So will it ever drop back down to say a more ideal value of 6-9dB?  Or am I better off waiting for my other Router to arrive and try altering it with the DMT Tool.

The problem is holding a connection for it to drop I guess.  I could re-sync the router again now, but I can't hold a connection for more than a few hours or a day.  No way will it ever do it automatically....

[Rik]

Hi Jimbo

The line would have re-trained at 15db, but by the time you looked at your stats, the noise had decreased and so the margin had increased. From what you say of your line you have little chance of ever returning to a 6db target margin - to do so, you need to be able to maintain sync for 15 days or so at a time. In theory, if you do that, the target NM will be lowered by 3db. Any drop in sync, however, stops that happening and, iac, BT often seem to decide that if you margin has been raised then it needs to be at the higher level. They generally refuse to reset it manually, and will only do so in the event of a diagnosed fault which has been cleared.

You are right, therefore, that it's unlikely to happen in your case, nor would you want it to as it would make your line even more unstable. Use of the DMT tool will usually prevent the BT software functioning.

[Jimbo]

Hmmm I don't know what to do then.  It's never been right since the telegraph pole was knocked down.  A local farmer hit it with his tractor, and then, just used his own "spare" cable to replace it with.  BT never came out and I doubt it is a BT certified cable.   

[Rik]

Then complain to BT, Jimbo, particularly if you can prove that. Either do it directly, as a voice issue, or through IDNet as a broadband issue.

[Jimbo]

Then complain to BT, Jimbo, particularly if you can prove that. Either do it directly, as a voice issue, or through IDNet as a broadband issue.

I'll see what IDNet says.  I may call BT also.  But I can't really "prove" it now.  I guess I could just tell BT but would they send someone out to investigate just on my word.  We shall see.

[Rik]

Can you photograph the cable/joints in close up? That might provide enough evidence.

[Steve]

As I understand it??? If you  use DMT tool and maually set the margin to say 12 instead of 15 you may obviously get a higher sync but if this margin does not give enough overhead for your line noise you will then disconnect.

[Jimbo]

  Why is nothing easy.

So I call BT.... "sorry we can't help as the number you are calling from is not with BT".

Well yeah I know that, but I want to talk about your line outside the house.

"Sorry, no, goodbye"!

Phone my phone provider..... "sorry we can't help as clearly your phone is working ok.  Try talking to BT."

So I phone IDNET.... closed.

   

[Sebby]

If someone has repaired the wiring on the telegraph pole (which they shouldn't have done) I suspect BT would be able to spot this pretty easily.

[Rik]

So I phone IDNET.... closed.

They always are at the weekend, Jimbo. Give them a ring tomorrow, or drop them an email and point them at this thread.

[Jimbo]

Well I rang BT and asked to speak to someone else.  Managed to get the fault logged, took all my details and she said someone would come to investigate!  Fingers crossed!!!! 

[Sebby]

Just be aware of the charge if a BT engineer has to come out and they find no fault (£160 + VAT, I believe).

[Jimbo]

Just be aware of the charge if a BT engineer has to come out and they find no fault (£160 + VAT, I believe).

Just had a call back, someone will be out tomorrow to investigate.

Well I doubt I'll be paying.  I haven't done anything, I've just reported the problem.  We'll see what happens tomorrow anyway.

I've got every finger and toe crossed that they find a problem and replace the line!