New IDNET broadband customer - only getting 224kbps downstream

bristewart · Dec 28, 2006, 10:11:16

Hi guys,

I have just had my ADSL line activated by IDNET at a new house, using a new BT line which was put in about 2 weeks ago. The router is showing the ADSL line dowstream speed to be 224kbps, and surfing the Net is indeed like being on dial-up! My neighbours have got speeds of 1-2Mb from their broadband suppliers. The upstream speed however seems perfectly fine at 448kbps.

As IDNET support seem to be on holiday until after Xmas, does anyway have any suggestions for me to try. Have rung BT, but they can't help us out because we don't have broadband with them - they insist we need to contact IDNET when they re-open.

I'm using a Netgear DG834GT wireless router.

Thanks.

Nerval · Dec 28, 2006, 10:15:06

May be the dreaded Exchange at Red syndrome - not enough capacity on the exchange for the people on it.
Check here to see what the status of your exchange is:
LINK

If red, then you're waiting on BT and nothing you can do apart from try and find less busy times.

flinty · Dec 28, 2006, 15:23:07

If I am reading this correctly your phone line is 2 weeks old, but only just connected to IDNet. Assuming your exchange status is OK, then the problem may well be the 10 day training period for the Max products.

When I joined, I was getting speeds of around 120k, but after 8 days this went up to 1.85Meg where it has remained ever since. I have seen suggestions to reboot the router once a day, although I did not need to do this, the speed increase just happened.

Steve

Rik · Dec 29, 2006, 18:08:55

Quote from: bristewart on Dec 28, 2006, 10:11:16
The router is showing the ADSL line dowstream speed to be 224kbps, and surfing the Net is indeed like being on dial-up! My neighbours have got speeds of 1-2Mb from their broadband suppliers. The upstream speed however seems perfectly fine at 448kbps.

What is your d/s attenuation and noise margin?

bristewart · Dec 30, 2006, 11:45:19

Quote from: rikbean on Dec 29, 2006, 18:08:55
What is your d/s attenuation and noise margin?

ADSL Link      Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed    224 kbps      448 kbps
Line Attenuation    58.0 db      31.5 db
Noise Margin    3.5 db       20.0 db

Another problem I've got is that when I reboot the router, there is no ADSL signal until a couple of days later. this is quite random. But at my last house, whenever I rebooted the router, the ADSL would be back up about 30 seconds later.

I think all of this might point to a problem with the new ADSL activation?

bristewart · Dec 30, 2006, 11:48:22

Quote from: Nerval on Dec 28, 2006, 10:15:06
May be the dreaded Exchange at Red syndrome - not enough capacity on the exchange for the people on it.
Check here to see what the status of your exchange is:
LINK

If red, then you're waiting on BT and nothing you can do apart from try and find less busy times.

Thanks for that link. I've checked my exchange (Rownhams) and it went green for Max DSL on 31/03/06, so no problem there then.

bristewart · Dec 30, 2006, 11:56:21

Quote from: flinty on Dec 28, 2006, 15:23:07
If I am reading this correctly your phone line is 2 weeks old, but only just connected to IDNet. Assuming your exchange status is OK, then the problem may well be the 10 day training period for the Max products.

When I joined, I was getting speeds of around 120k, but after 8 days this went up to 1.85Meg where it has remained ever since. I have seen suggestions to reboot the router once a day, although I did not need to do this, the speed increase just happened.

Steve

Thanks for the reply. I'll call IDNET on Tuesday for confirmation of this. I'm currently still getting 224k download.

As for the reboot once a day suggestion, I can't currently do this because when I reboot the router, the ADSL signal is lost for a couple of days. I.e. the green "ADSL light" remains unlit on the router, but periodically (maybe every half an hour) flashes amber which means ADSL training is occurring. Very strange. Sometimes I can get the ADSL to activate again by connecting a computer to the router and then the next time it attempts the ADSL training, then the connection is made once more and the light stays lit green.

I have a Netgear DG834GT wireless router.

So there are 2 problems with my IDNET broadband:

1) When connected, download speed is only 224k.
2) If I reboot the wireless router, then I cannot reconnect to the ADSL line until some random period of time has elapsed. It just sits there with the ADSL light unlit, but then flashes amber every half an hour to indicate ADSL training is occurring.

TimJ · Dec 30, 2006, 12:13:28

Quote from: bristewart on Dec 30, 2006, 11:45:19
ADSL Link      Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed    224 kbps      448 kbps
Line Attenuation    58.0 db      31.5 db
Noise Margin    3.5 db       20.0 db

Another problem I've got is that when I reboot the router, there is no ADSL signal until a couple of days later. this is quite random. But at my last house, whenever I rebooted the router, the ADSL would be back up about 30 seconds later.

I think all of this might point to a problem with the new ADSL activation?

Ouch!! connected at 224kbs - With an attenuation of 58dB you are on a long line but it should sync better than you are currently achieving. I would suspect internal wiring problems.

Try using the test socket as described here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/troubleshooting.htm. If that works better try a faceplate filter, if not I suspect that you will have to get a BT engineer out by contacting IDNET.

Good Luck

Tim.

Rik · Dec 30, 2006, 13:19:57

Quote from: bristewart on Dec 30, 2006, 11:45:19
ADSL Link      Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed    224 kbps      448 kbps
Line Attenuation    58.0 db      31.5 db
Noise Margin    3.5 db       20.0 db

Another problem I've got is that when I reboot the router, there is no ADSL signal until a couple of days later. this is quite random. But at my last house, whenever I rebooted the router, the ADSL would be back up about 30 seconds later.

I think all of this might point to a problem with the new ADSL activation?

I'm with Tim and would be looking at your internal wiring. That noise margin at such a low speed says there's something wrong there. If you have an NTE5 master socket, remove the faceplate and connect at the test socket behind it, does that improve things?

jupiter · Dec 30, 2006, 14:09:47

Quote from: rikbean on Dec 30, 2006, 13:19:57
That noise margin at such a low speed says there's something wrong there.

Yes I agree too. I have attenuation exactly the same as yours, but sync at around 2.9kbits. Internal wiring is certainly the first check to make. Plus, if you can't improve things via internal wiring, it will also speed the process later as you will have eliminated one of the first questions IDNet, then BT will ask.

bristewart · Dec 31, 2006, 17:07:02

Quote from: TimJ on Dec 30, 2006, 12:13:28
Try using the test socket as described here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/troubleshooting.htm. If that works better try a faceplate filter, if not I suspect that you will have to get a BT engineer out by contacting IDNET.

Woah, what a superb link!

Just removed the NTE5 faceplate to use the test socket behind it. The ADSL activated on the router immediately, and I'm currently getting 5.5 meg download speed!

So does this mean I need a special ADSL faceplate? Perhaps Wimpey (who built this new house) wired it up incorrectly? Or it is the wrong faceplate? The faceplate does show the BT logo though. When BT activated the phone line, no engineer visited the house, it was done from outside, or remotely, whilst we were at work, and he rung us up to say it was now activated. A couple of weeks later I joined IDNET to provide me broadband on the line.

Here are the stats from being connected to the test socket now:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5504 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 56.5 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 5.6 db 20.0 db

They haven't changed much from before, apart from the download speed.
Is the noise margin too high, or does it not matter as long as the download speed is good?

Thanks all for their help so far with this. I can now surf the net very quickly, albeit with my faceplate hanging off the wall right now!

Rik · Dec 31, 2006, 18:00:00

It sounds, then, like you have a problem with your internal wiring. The test socket removes that from the equation by disconnecting it.

You need to get IDNet to get a BT engineer out to fix it or do so yourself. Don't call 150 to get an engineer, he/she will be voice-trained, not ADSL.

Chances are that the quality of the builder-installed extensions aren't great and they are picking up noise. You could try disconnecting the bell wire, terminal three, often orange/white (but not always) at the master and all extension sockets. That can make a big difference in some instances, but if that doesn't do enough, your wiring needs a full check.

bristewart · Dec 31, 2006, 19:02:03

Quote from: bristewart on Dec 31, 2006, 17:07:02
I can now surf the net very quickly, albeit with my faceplate hanging off the wall right now!

Spoke a bit too soon there, although my router still says 5504kbps download on the ADSL line, when I downloaded the install for MSN Messenger, I was getting just 15.5kbps! Also surfing the web isn't that quick at all, a tad quicker than dial-up perhaps.

I'll call IDNET on Tuesday with all this info, thanks guys for narrowing it down a lot.

Happy New Year to you all

TimJ · Dec 31, 2006, 19:13:46

That is great news.

It is worth establishing that it is your wiring that is the problem and not something that was plugged in either without a filter or with a faulty one. Remove everything from all phone sockets, refit the NTE5 faceplate and try the ADSL again.

If you still connect at your high speed, there is a problem with something you had plugged in or you have a faulty filter, try plugging things back in one at a time to find the faulty item ( Everything must have a filter)

If with just your empty extensions connected, it does not work well then the problem is with the wiring. This does not mean that Wimpey has done it incorrectly, the requirements for ADSL are far greater than just for a voice system. A filtered faceflate will effectively isolate your wiring from the ADSL signal and you connect at the same spped as using your test socket. You can try removing ring wires that may work, but I would go straight for a filtered faceplate that will work.

As Rik says you can contact IDNet who will arrange for BT to send out an engineer who will fit one ( I think at no charge) or you can buy one and fit it yourself. My preference would be to do the latter as it avoids the delay waiting for a BT appointment and then waiting in on the appointed day. But the choice is yours.

Tim.

Rik · Jan 01, 2007, 12:18:53

Sadly, they are likely to charge anything from £60 upwards. However, if there's something wrong with the existing master, including how it's wired, then it should be free.

Meerkat · Jan 01, 2007, 12:55:27

Sorry if I have missed something here but has Bristewart tried a BT Speed Test : http://speedtester.bt.com/ I suspect that his Profile will still be linked to the initial very low speeds caused by his internal wiring (?), and thus the higher sync speeds that he is now has will take about 3 days to be reflected in the BT system and thus he will still be limited to the same low speeds until the BT system has reset itself automatically. He needs to ensure that his router is left on and syncing at the high speeds to allow the BT system to catch up??

My tuppence worth!

Rik · Jan 01, 2007, 13:00:40

It will be, but if his sync speed increased dramatically when using the test socket, then there's an issue with his wiring which needs to be resolved. The profile will follow in due course.

Nerval · Jan 01, 2007, 13:07:58

I agree with Rik but he said it first.
The wiring needs sorting before bothering with anything else.

Rik · Jan 01, 2007, 13:10:50

Thank you kind sir!

siege2 · Jan 01, 2007, 14:22:57

^^^ awww :-)

bristewart · Jan 01, 2007, 18:26:52

OK guys, think it's time I got my coat

I found the cause of the second problem - unable to connect to ADSL from master socket - I didn't have a microfilter in the upstairs bedroom telephone point! The upstairs phone and Sky box were connected directly to the phone socket, which was causing the lack of ADSL at the master point downstairs. Having now fitted a microfilter up there, the original NTE5 faceplate now gives the same download speed as the test socket behind it. So there is no problem with the internal wiring after all.

As for the first problem - 224kbps download speed - the router reports a download speed of about 5952kbps, however the BT speedtester stats show:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 152 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 5952 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 121 kbps

So having solved the ADSL connection/router problem, I think I'll just have to wait a few days before my line speed improves, as I'm still within the 10 day ADSL traning period (my IDNET broadband went live on 27th Dec). Hopefully the BT database will be updated as Meerkat said above within about 3 days or so.

Well a couple of good things have come out of this.. I now appreciate the need for microfilters for ALL phone appliances (even upstairs - although what I'll probably do now is buy an ADSL/phone splitter NTE5 faceplate as suggested above to negate the need for them around the house), and I have also come to appreciate the superb (unofficial) online community that IDNET has on this forum. And all the time the company were on holiday and blissfully unaware! Thanks once again guys

Nerval · Jan 01, 2007, 20:09:55

Well done Bri.
I'm surprised Rik didn't think to ask you about filters - he usually does that first of all

So yes, it's just a matter of time now, and 3 days should see you sorted.

The only other thing is to make sure that your filters are decent ones - those with two plastic bits connected by a wire rather than the cheap one-piece things you often get given. They won't necessarily improve your speed, but they will ensure that you have no problems on your non-broadband appliances, and that phone calls etc will not interfere with your broadband.
If you're unsure about your filters, have a look at these Xf-1e ones, which are about as good as you can get, and not really expensive.

TimJ · Jan 01, 2007, 20:23:37

Yes give it a few days and your IP profile should jump up to just below your sync speed.

To help kick the BT system into action I would disconnect a couple of times a day (but not more often).

On past experience I would not be surprised if IDNet support read this thread and give you a call to make sure that you are all sorted OK.

Glad that between us all you we have been of some help.

Tim

Rik · Jan 02, 2007, 13:49:46

Quote from: Nerval on Jan 01, 2007, 20:09:55
I'm surprised Rik didn't think to ask you about filters - he usually does that first of all

I'm slipping in my old age.

Glad you're sorted, Bri. It can sometimes help to put a second filter in series on the Sky box, btw.

I endorse Nerval's recommendation for XF-1e filters, I wouldn't use anything else myself.

bristewart · Jan 04, 2007, 10:55:13

For anyone that's interested, I fitted an ADSL/phone splitter faceplate from Solwise to my NTE5 master socket, and with the BT Max DSL database now automatically updated I am getting around 2 meg download speeds, which seems about right for where I live, the length of my line, and what my neighbours' speeds are. I'm happy with that.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 5376 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1814 kbps

Thanks once again guys for your help.