Big brother getting bigger

Rik · Nov 05, 2008, 14:45:42

The Telegraph reports that "Under Government plans to monitor internet traffic, raw data would be collected and stored by the black boxes before being transferred to a giant central database.

The vision was outlined at a meeting between officials from the Home Office and Internet Service Providers earlier this week.

It is further evidence of the Government's desire to have the capability to vet every telephone call, email and internet visit made in the UK, which has already provoked an outcry.

Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, has described it as a "step too far".

The proposal is expected to be put out to consultation as part of the new Communications Data Bill early next year.

At Monday's meeting in London representatives from BT, AOL Europe, O2 and BSkyB were given a presentation of the issues and the technology surrounding the Government's Interception Modernisation Programme (IMP), the name given by the Home Office to the database proposal.

They were told that the security and intelligence agencies wanted to use the stored data to help fight serious crime and terrorism.

Officials tried to reassure the industry by suggesting that many smaller ISPs would be unaffected by the "black boxes" as these would be installed upstream on the network and hinted that all costs would be met by the Government.

One delegate at the meeting told the Independent: "They said they only wanted to return to a position they were in before the emergence of internet communication, when they were able to monitor all correspondence with a police suspect. The difference here is they will be in a much better position to spy on many more people on the basis of their internet behaviour. Also there's a grey area between what is content and what is traffic. Is what is said in a chat room content or just traffic?"

I'm decidedly uncomfortable - that means they also have access to any online banking transactions and purchases. How long before they lose my card details?

cavillas · Nov 05, 2008, 14:47:40

Who are they going to employ to vet and check this vast amount of information?

Rik · Nov 05, 2008, 14:51:41

Hoards of civil servants, Alf, who will probably end up leaving files on trains.

Inactive · Nov 05, 2008, 14:56:57

Quote from: Rik on Nov 05, 2008, 14:45:42
hinted that all costs would be met by the Government.

I'm decidedly uncomfortable - that means they also have access to any online banking transactions and purchases. How long before they lose my card details?

Me and you both.....of course we can read " Tax Payer " for " Government ".

It is all getting out of control..

Rik · Nov 05, 2008, 14:59:50

The big problem, I feel, In, is that it's gaining momentum - a bit like technology, it's growing exponentially. In five years time, will we have any private information? I fear not.

kinmel · Nov 05, 2008, 15:28:33

I take solace from the NHS Connecting for Health programme, it's continuing failure gives hope to us all.

Rik · Nov 05, 2008, 15:31:21

Fair comment, Alan, it will probably take my lifetime to get this thing to work, if then.

Glenn · Nov 05, 2008, 17:15:52

Possibly you kids lifetime too

Rik · Nov 05, 2008, 17:23:37

I don't have any, Glenn, so after me I don't care.

Sebby · Nov 05, 2008, 18:59:47

Quote from: Rik on Nov 05, 2008, 14:51:41
Hoards of civil servants, Alf, who will probably end up leaving files on trains.

Or pub car parks - they seem to be another favourite.

somanyholes · Nov 05, 2008, 21:31:19

QuoteI'm decidedly uncomfortable - that means they also have access to any online banking transactions and purchases. How long before they lose my card details?

they will have that info anyway mate.

As far as https is concerned they won't be able to sniff that data except if it's installed at the isp's end... If it's upsteam from the isp i can't see them being able to sniff it and decipher it.
This is all a load of sh*t to put it bluntly. They will have to log everthing not just http but every protocol going and it will need to be done on a per protocol basis....

The Australians are trying to do this at the moment and it's not being well received, there will be congestion slowdowns and much much more to contest with.

One of the things I read lately was that terrorists are apparently using an online game (world of warcraft) to exchange information. Even then they are not saying, we are going to bl0w *p x y or z. The government have no chance, they can't even sort online crime out never mind anything else.

In the end this may end up catching a few simple criminals out but not the people they are supposedly after. I would put money on it....

Crime evolves a lot quicker than any government system will be able to keep up with.

e.g. government spends £50,0000 on new systems, criminal spends 50p feeding a carrier pigion to send a coded note.....

What a bunch of inviciles we are governed by. I curse the people who invented the database regardless of it's plus points.

rant over

Rik · Nov 06, 2008, 10:15:08

But aside from all that, you think it's worth spending £12B on, So?

somanyholes · Nov 06, 2008, 10:15:56

i think upgrading the infrastructure would be a much better idea

Rik · Nov 06, 2008, 10:20:21

Or updating Parliament, maybe...

ducky22 · Nov 06, 2008, 19:50:38

I can think of 100 ways around this so what's the point of putting it in place at such a huge cost?

Death to stupidity of labour.

john · Nov 06, 2008, 20:01:05

Quote from: cavillas on Nov 05, 2008, 14:47:40
Who are they going to employ to vet and check this vast amount of information?

I can't see them being able to do that, I imagine that it will be stored and only when they need to retrieve a particular part of it will they then try to check it, if they still can.

I agree though that on the Governments record of IT projects it may never get implemented. If the guys at Bletchley Park had been as incompetent we might be writing this in German.

Moley · Nov 07, 2008, 08:25:48

Hi peeps - not be around much, but always lurking :p this caught my eye

QuoteOne of the things I read lately was that terrorists are apparently using an online game (world of warcraft) to exchange information

As a player of WOW (sad I know) I can't help wondering if I've met one of these undercover agents - I bet they are those numpties always trying to sell virtual money!!!

On serious note, this big brother stuff is really starting to bother me.....

pup · Nov 07, 2008, 10:01:34

Quote from: cavillas on Nov 05, 2008, 14:47:40
Who are they going to employ to vet and check this vast amount of information?

The lowest bidder.....

Group 4 perhaps

Rik · Nov 07, 2008, 10:02:28

They'll probably outsource it to India.

Inactive · Nov 07, 2008, 10:03:42

Quote from: Rik on Nov 07, 2008, 10:02:28
They'll probably outsource it to India.

Nearly got an identical post there Rik, I was about to post exactly that.

Rik · Nov 07, 2008, 10:06:58

Careful, people will begin to realise we are really the same person.

DarkStar · Nov 07, 2008, 11:37:42

Quote from: cavillas on Nov 05, 2008, 14:47:40
Who are they going to employ to vet and check this vast amount of information?

Probably un-vetted East Europeans 8)

Ian

Rik · Nov 07, 2008, 11:38:54

They'll just be guarding the doors.

Inactive · Nov 07, 2008, 11:42:39

Quote from: DarkStar on Nov 07, 2008, 11:37:42
Probably un-vetted East Europeans 8)

Ian

Nah, they are all employed guarding Government Buildings..

DarkStar · Nov 07, 2008, 13:16:29

Quote from: Rik on Nov 07, 2008, 11:38:54
They'll just be guarding the doors.

Then let their mates in when everyones gone home

Rik · Nov 07, 2008, 14:45:50

Why wait, no-one would notice.