wpa1/tkip dead!!!!!!

[somanyholes]

Wpa is not dead but tkip is. This will open a can of worms. What it means simply put is that if clients are connected to an ap that uses wpa1/tkip an attacker will be able to gain lan access/as it stands at the moment the data being sent by legit clients to the ap will still be encrypted. This is going to cause major issues!!!!!!!!!

http://www.itworld.com/security/57285/once-thought-safe-wpa-wi-fi-encryption-cracked

[Rik]

I'll just order some new cables, So. This is worrying, if they develop it to a 'workable' level, then all our current wireless technology is not worth having.

[Ray]

Well I'm glad that I wired all my PCs with ethernet cat 5e last year then. I very rarely use my wireless connection now, it's usually  disabled. 

[Rik]

Same here, Ray, it's faster and more secure - most of the time there's simply no contest.

[Steve]

I think its a while before the home user should start worrying I even think WEP is probably 100% safe where I live

[Inactive]

Like wise Steve, I live on a country lane.

[Rik]

You should really get a house, In.

[Ray]

Same here, Ray, it's faster and more secure - most of the time there's simply no contest.

Agreed, Rik, I've never found the performance of wireless very good or the connection very reliable when I've used it.

[Rik]

Plus I do like physical cables, they're so easy to troubleshoot.

[Inactive]

You should really get a house, In.

Would be warmer.

[JB]

Same here, Ray, it's faster and more secure - most of the time there's simply no contest.

I tend to use mains HomePlugs these days. Faster than wireless and no chance of anyone else connecting to my side of the electric meter, so totally secure and pasword protected as well.

Like In, I live in the country but the reliability of mains networking is second only to an ethernet cable.

[Ted]

You should really get a house, In.

[Inactive]

I tend to use mains HomePlugs these days. Faster than wireless and no chance of anyone else connecting to my side of the electric meter, so totally secure and pasword protected as well.

So do I JB brilliant bit of kit.. 

[Rik]

AAMOI, does anyone know why the meter acts as a barrier?

[Steve]

Is it to do with the phasing???

[Inactive]

AAMOI, does anyone know why the meter acts as a barrier?

Erm, which meter might that be?

(non geek here ).

[Steve]

Is it todo with the phasing???

[Rik]

Erm, which meter might that be?

(non geek here ).

The electricity meter, In.

[Rik]

Is it todo with the phasing???

That was my best guess, Steve, but there must be more than one house on the same phase in most places.

[Glenn]

1 in 3 on average should be on the same phase

[Inactive]

The electricity meter, In.

Right, I was looking too deep Rik.

My electricity is on a different phase to my neighbours.

[Rik]

1 in 3 on average should be on the same phase

So do you think that the meter does provide a barrier, Glenn?

[Glenn]

HomePlug devices use encrypted transmission to avoid eavesdropping problems, but remember to change the key from the default before you use them. Electricity meters and mains filters usually block transmission and HomePlugs will work only if the connection points are on the same electrical phase.

http://www.computing.co.uk/itweek/comment/2191671/homeplug-devices-come-age

[Rik]

So I wonder what is in the meter to provide the block?

[Glenn]

some wheels & cogs

[Inactive]

A shilling bit.

[Rik]

It's odd, isn't it, Glenn, as they don't sit between internal and external wiring so much as on the wiring. I can understand filters and surge suppressors stopping the signals, but meters are harder to get my head round.

[Glenn]

This is interesting http://plugandsave.com/

[Rik]

I'm not sure whether I believe the claims, how about you?

[Glenn]

I'm dubious too, it says it save the power spikes and redeploys it as smoothed power, much like a UPS does.

[Glenn]

How your meter works http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

[Inactive]

I would say that is a load of old bo**ocks.

It would only work on those that tried to somehow justify their outlay, the gullible.

[Rik]

I'm dubious too, it says it save the power spikes and redeploys it as smoothed power, much like a UPS does.

That was what made me pause for thought, Glenn. I just don't see that working with capacitors, which is all they mention. If they were using the technology of UPS (and how would that work if other devices are not plugged into the unit?), then the inefficiencies of the device would surely offset any savings.

[Rik]

How your meter works http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

Anything but whether they act as a barrier.

[Odos]

I've been using homeplugs for years and to be honest I don't "know" how the meter acts as a barrier. I have always believed that it does so simply by interference. That is the signal is scrambled by the internal workings of the meter, but thats only a guess 

I do know that they are sensitive to any interference as if I try plugging it into a socket strip they work OK BUT if I also plug in my monitor to the same strip it stops working. Anything else can be plugged into the strip without effect.

[Rik]

Presumably if you plug the monitor in elsewhere, Tony, it's OK? Odd. 

[Odos]

Presumably if you plug the monitor in elsewhere, Tony, it's OK? Odd. 

Yup thats how it is. Thats what made me believe the meter simply acts as a barrier by interference. There was a lengthy discussion about how the meter stops the signal on another board a couple of years ago. They never reached a conclusion as I remember but all found that the meter did indeed act as a barrier. Strange

[Rik]

Well, we know of a case where a monitor took out the ADSL signal, so I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised that these units are also susceptible. Too many cheap PSUs floating around, I suspect.

[Odos]

Too many cheap PSUs floating around, I suspect.

Thats the ironic thing. I keep two monitors, a cheapo 17 inch that I use for working on other peoples machines and an expensive 30 inch Dell that is my main monitor. It's the 30 inch with it's built in supply that causes the interference and not the cheapo with the power brick.

wonder if thats saying something about Dell's being overpriced 

[Rik]

Probably, Tony.

[Steve]

This from the home plug 1.0 technical white paper to be found here

As multiple homes are usually served from a common transformer, physical powerline networks extend
beyond the boundaries of a single residence. Privacy is established by creating logical networks through
the use of encryption (Figure 5). HomePlug's privacy and security scheme is based on the 56-bit Data
Encryption Standard (56-bit DES).
Each station maintains a table of encryption keys and associated Encryption Key Select (EKS) values (Table
6). The EKS values serve as an index or identifier for each encryption key. When transmitting a frame, an
encryption key is used to encrypt each frame body and the associated EKS is included in the frame header.
Upon reception of the frame, the receiving station uses the EKS to select the associated encryption key from
its table of keys to properly decrypt the frame body

[Rik]

Thanks, Steve.

So the meter is no barrier, another urban myth is dead.

[Steve]

However also found this

Can my neighbour listen to my data when he is connected with the same power supply?

Your electric meter damps the signal enormously and represents a natural barrier to your neighbour. However, if you have unfavourably lying power supply lines it is possible that your neighbour benefits from an unmeant phase coupling. We absolutely advise you to use the internal device encryption! By using the HomePlug AV Utility to enter the network password that is different from the factory default will activate the encryption

[Rik]

Ah, so now it's a possible barrier.

[Steve]

Mine were encrypted 2years ago but cannot recall the password

[Rik]

Oh well, you'll need to replace them sometime anyway, Steve.

[JB]

So the meter is no barrier, another urban myth is dead.

Sorry to dump this subject in the thread and then not comment but have been away for 12 hours.

In practical terms I find that the meter is a considerable barrier. I can only base this on using HomePlugs at my house in Spain. I have excellent coverage all throughout my property no matter what socket they are plugged in to. My next door neighbour was so impressed with the units that on a subsequent visit I brough him a set out from the UK. These are the kind which use a small flying lead for the mains so fitting Spanish mains plugs was no problem. They are manufactured by Peak.

I know that his house is on the same phase as mine because this was confirmed by Iberdrola the power company. I cannot see his plugs and he cannot see mine. I know this is not a definitive answer but in addition my plugs have been password protected.

I guess with all these systems and security nothing is 100% safe but I am fairly comfortable with how it works and personally feel it is much safer and certainly much more efficient than wireless.

[Rik]

Thanks, JB. I think we're now at the point of:

ethernet cable is safe, fast and cheap
Power line networking is fast, almost as safe but not cheap
Wireless networking is reasonably safe but not to be relied upon and cheap.