Interview with Richard Tang of Zen

[Tacitus]

Mooching around the internet I came across this interview with Richard Tang the MD of Zen.  I thought it was interesting, particularly his ideas on management.  I'll bet the interest payments on the £20M HQ are eye-watering.   

Interview is here

[Rik]

He's one person who will be very happy at falling interest rates.

[Sebby]

Wow, that's quite an HQ!

[Rik]

Makes IDNet Towers look small.

[Sebby]

[Simon]

Zen are one of the only ISPs I would consider using, other than IDNet.

[Sebby]

Same here.

[Rik]

Them or Newnet, but Zen would be my first choice.

[Simon]

Oh well, at least we'd all know someone on their forums! 

[Rik]

I haven't gone yet.

[Tacitus]

He's one person who will be very happy at falling interest rates.

I bet!  I was also interested to learn how their subscriber base is split between business and consumer.  Also the financial numbers. 

The downturn could of course hit them more than iDNet.  Although Zen appear the bigger outfit they could fall between two stools.  Too big - not small and lean.  Not big enough - don't really have the muscle to take on the very big outfits. 

[Rik]

I think that's going to be the issue facing all the smaller ISPs now, as distinct from vISPs, Tac. BT are delaying the provision of the new hostlinks, and taking their usual inordinate amount of time to put in place 'old fashioned' centrals instead. IDNet haven't advertised for some time in order not to oversell their existing capacity, despite the fact that they should have had massive new capacity in June. It really doesn't help with the business plan.

[Tacitus]

BT are delaying the provision of the new hostlinks, and taking their usual inordinate amount of time to put in place 'old fashioned' centrals instead.

I've just been over to SamKnows and found that my exchange which was supposed to be enabled in Q4 2010, now has no date whatsoever. 

The only hope is that the decline in the £ will attract someone like AT & T from the States  Maybe Spanish Telecom O2s owners will start offering real alternatives, although at present they don't seem interested in LLU for any exchange with less than 15/20,000 subscribers.  Even TT will do exchanges with 5000.

[Rik]

My date has gone back by six months, Tac. I can't believe how dismally BT are failing with this project - and it's not the end of it when they do convert an exchange, to judge by all the reports I've seen from early adopters.

We need to get IDNet big enough to go to LLU, but BT are not helping there right now.

[Tacitus]

We need to get IDNet big enough to go to LLU, but BT are not helping there right now.

I agree and can imagine Time and Simon tear their hair out every day.  Has the new central been delayed or is it still on track?

My line's currently having one of it's regular hissy fits with loads of errors.

Edit:  There's a video of RT doing a tour of Zen Towers - their new office building here

[Rik]

The new hostlink (the 21CN product) has been delayed further and looks like being being six months late at the moment. The new central is due in January and, so far, we've not heard of any delays - but nor are BT willing to push it through faster to compensate for the delays on the hostlink.

[Rik]

Edit:  There's a video of RT doing a tour of Zen Towers - their new office building here

He needs a haircut. 

[Tacitus]

He needs a haircut. 

I thought that, but I think it's the in thing with computer people as the MD of Sun needs one as well.

It must be galling to be under the BT monopoly when you're trying to run a business whilst you're dependent on them.  I can understand why companies such as Zen and iDNet would want to go LLU simply to be in control of their own destiny.  OFCOM are no use either as they seem to be in bed with BT. 

There's a piece in today's Grauniad by Patrick Collinson saying the same thing about the gas regulator.
LINK  It's about half way down.

[Rik]

Can't help but agree with the man, can you take. Of-whatever never seems to work for the consumer but rather the 'client' industry. It's a sham, and we all know it, but Govt doesn't seem to care. Allowing retrospective price increases is a scandal.

Oh, I should add that Simon D doesn't need a haircut, but I can't vouch for Tim. 

[Sebby]

My line's currently having one of it's regular hissy fits with loads of errors.

That's unlikely to have anything to do with capacity, Tac. It'll be to do with bursts of noise - something that's could be either internal or external to your property.

[Tacitus]

That's unlikely to have anything to do with capacity, Tac. It'll be to do with bursts of noise - something that's could be either internal or external to your property.

I know Seb - I was really thnking aloud when I wrote that.    Funny thing is, a lot of these sessions seem to happen around the same times.  Generally in the morning around breakfast and early evening.  It's not something in my house that I can think of. 

Trouble is if I try sorting it out with Demon I get the usual load of script monkeys, so I have to ask whether it's worth the effort unless it gets really bad. 

[Sebby]

Have you tried the usual things, such as the test socket or removing the ring wire, out of interest?

[Tacitus]

Have you tried the usual things, such as the test socket or removing the ring wire, out of interest?

The  modem socket is wired directly into the main socket (it's in the roof space) via a Clarity faceplate, so the ring wire shouldn't make any difference.  Also I've used Cat5 for the wiring and routed it v carefully to avoid mains interference.  I live in a bungalow so it's not too difficult. 

The modem is plugged into a power block which has a built in smoothing circuit - ferrite ring and so on.  Available from Maplin at around £35 - expensive as it was intended for high end hi-fi systems, but if you're on a poor line like me you'll do anything to try and eliminate all possible problems.

The only other possibility is the power brick (transformer) to the modem, but I've swapped this out and it makes no difference.

It really needs someone from OpenReach to sort it out as the line is gradually degrading.  About 12 months ago I got a consistent profile at around 2500, now it's down to 1500/1750. 

I contemplated moving to another ISP but since it's a line problem I'm not sure it would make any practical difference.  Apart from the script monkeys, Demon aren't that bad.   Can't see the C & W takeover making any difference either.

Sigh.  Hard life isn't it 

[Rik]

I contemplated moving to another ISP but since it's a line problem I'm not sure it would make any practical difference.

IDNet, or a similar ISP, might be more effective at getting BT to fix the line, Tac, but the risk is always that BT will simply condemn it instead.

[Tacitus]

IDNet, or a similar ISP, might be more effective at getting BT to fix the line, Tac, but the risk is always that BT will simply condemn it instead.

I agree Rik.  It is one of the problems with Demon that the people in Bangalore are incredibly reluctant to get involved with BT.  I suspect there's a) Demon's reluctance to risk a charge from BT and, b) a lack of patience on the part of the people on the ground to deal with Bangalore.  Never prove either of these of course. 

Could be that idNet or Zen would be better at persuading them - I'd even be prepared to risk a charge.  OTOH since my neighbour is also having bad line problems with TT, it seems fairly conclusive that the lines are not up to much.  TT though are able to crank up the power, although I imagine that becomes self defeating in the end.

You can understand why I'm reluctant to stir the pot too much.

I've probably been put on a 9dB SNR target with all the noise as I was regularly syncing at 2880 a year ago, which considering the line quality was fair enough.  At present it's 2176K so I might be getting a profile of 1750 at present.  It has been down to 1250 before now, so could be worse.  It is at least reasonably stable. 

Must be over a year since I added to my collection of modems, so perhaps it's time to try another 

I did think about separating modem and firewall.  Put a vanilla modem in the roof adjacent to the socket and operate a separate firewall in the 'office'.  I put the wiring in before the last redecoration so it's doable.  Expensive though and it would bring its own problems, possibly without any gain.

[Rik]

First thing to try, Tac, would be a 2-wire 2700, they can really have an impact on poor lines.

[Tacitus]

First thing to try, Tac, would be a 2-wire 2700, they can really have an impact on poor lines.

I know, but they don't do one with VPN.....  Unless of course they do a vanilla modem I could use with a separate VPN firewall.

[Rik]

Not that I know of, sadly.

[Sebby]

I know, but they don't do one with VPN.....  Unless of course they do a vanilla modem I could use with a separate VPN firewall.

If it can do bridge mode (not sure) couldn't you use another router for the VPN?

[Simon]

If it can do bridge mode (not sure) couldn't you use another router for the VPN?

It can do Bridged LLC and Bridged VC-Mux, if that's any help. 

[Tacitus]

It can do Bridged LLC and Bridged VC-Mux, if that's any help. 

Not sure if it is tbh.  I don't currently have a separate firewall as I use an all in one at present.  I'll take a look around and see what's on offer. 

What I think I would have to do is use a Two-Wire as a modem with the internal firewall switched off and a feed to a router/firewall on a sub-net for all other functions.  Not sure if that might give problems with double NATting and it could be an expensive proposition to find out. 

I was thinking of a Draytek 100 for the modem with either a Draytek 2900 or the equivalent Zywall as the  firewall.  Cost of these together is about the same as (say) a Thompson 608 - not cheap, but not out of the ball park either.  Whether it would be an improvement on the Thompson or my current setup is another matter.

[Rik]

I'm pretty sure you can kill NAT in the 2700, Tac.

Yup, disable routing:

Warning: When you disable routing, the gateway's local IP address gets set to 192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0.

If you want to connect to the gateway when it is in bridged mode to change its configuration parameters, you must:

    * Configure your computer's IP address to work on the same subnet (ex. 192.168.1.x, 255.255.255.0).
    * Attach your computer to the local network port of the gateway.
    * Enter 192.168.1.254 as address in a web browser.

Note: When routing is disabled, NAT and the DHCP Server are disabled.

[Tacitus]

Note: When routing is disabled, NAT and the DHCP Server are disabled.

And presumably that kills the firewall as well.  Or is it controlled separately on the 2-wire?

[Rik]

I'm not sure, but there is a separate control.

[Tacitus]

I'm not sure, but there is a separate control.

Mind you given that these go for ridiculous amounts on e-bay, it might be worth a try.  Either way I won't lose a fortune and no doubt someone would take it off my hands if it didn't work out.

[Rik]

I'm sure we could find you a buyer, Tac.

[Steve]

Presumably if the 2wire is acting as a modem only you will then need a router with a WAN input or a DHCP server??

[Tacitus]

Presumably if the 2wire is acting as a modem only you will then need a router with a WAN input or a DHCP server??

My original thoughts were to use a vanilla modem (Draytek 100 which does PPoE/or I think Thompson do a single port) with a separate firewall router (Draytek 2910/Zywall 2), the idea being the modem could sit next to the phone socket and the firewall where I can get at it.

Problem with this is that it is expensive, so I was thinking of first trying the 2-Wire on its own - I can manage without VPN for a bit, or if I have to use SSH, although I doubt the 2-Wire does port mapping.  If the 2-wire gave sufficiently good results (stable/ high sync etc) then I could use this as a pure modem and pony up for the firewall.  Total cost is about the same and I could offload the 2-wire if it didn't work. Not ideal but should be workable. 

Alternatively I could go for a Thompson 608WL with VPN on the grounds that the Broadcom chip (I think all Speedtouch use Broadcom?) is better than the AR7 which is what I have at present.

In the end it may be that nothing makes sufficient difference to be worth the bother and I have to accept that part of the price of living in one of the more pleasant parts of the world is c..p broadband. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the dual SSID 2-Wire is the one to go for as you don't have to do DNS poisoning tricks?

[Rik]

That's it, Tac. Or a single SSID with SBC firmware. I use a 2700 on my poor line, and have gained 1000k in profile over a Netgear DG834, which uses the AR7 chipset. I replaced a Draytek with the Netgear because I found the Draytek wasn't as good once I went to Max.

[Sebby]

That seems to be the general consensus about Drayteks, Rik. It's very interesting as they were considered the best before Max came along.

[Lance]

Just so you know, the 2700 does do port mapping in the form that you set up a application which uses a port, and then tell the router which pc the application is running on.

[Tacitus]

Just so you know, the 2700 does do port mapping in the form that you set up a application which uses a port, and then tell the router which pc the application is running on.

Thanks Lance but does it do translation?  (= incoming port 1234 at the router mapped to port 4567 at the PC).  Surprisingly few routers do this as standard, even some of the so-called high end ones.  The Drayteks do it via the GUI, and you can with the Zyxels but you need to use the command line. 

I always use SSH on non-standard ports.  It  may not be hugely secure although I disable passwords and  use a key, but it does at least keep the script kids out 

[Rik]

That seems to be the general consensus about Drayteks, Rik. It's very interesting as they were considered the best before Max came along.

I agree, Seb, it was odd because they were so good pre-Max, especially on poor lines. However, Max seemed to re-write the rule book for them.

[Tacitus]

I agree, Seb, it was odd because they were so good pre-Max, especially on poor lines. However, Max seemed to re-write the rule book for them.

I was using a 2800 for a while and tbh it wasn't bad and feature wise beats most others.  Mind you, I had to do a lot of command line tweaking to get there.  Problem was that under some conditions it started having periods where it dropped into a cycle of constant re-syncing - no doubt due to the detiorating line. 

My current AR7 based one isn't too bad but seems to have swapped speed for stability in quite a big way as I get nowhere near the same sync speeds as I did with the Draytek.  Further detioration on the line now seems to be defeating this one, hence the desire to try something else.  AFAICT it's only those with Broadcom chips that seem to do the business under most  circumstances.  The others are fine if you're on a good line but throw a hissy fit at the first sign of trouble. 

[Rik]

That's why I'd recommend a 2700 if it can meet the rest of your needs, Tac. I, and most others on poor lines, have certainly seen advantages with them.