New cable

[old Bill]

Hi,
   I need to get a new cable for my router. My cat has started chewing it, not though the wire yet but it wont be long. Are some cables better than others at giving a good signal ?

[AvengerUK]

Simple answer: Yes!

I used to have a "normal" cable, that i used for 56k actually, back when i had 512kbs. However, following this cable getting broken, i changed to a ADSLNation cable, shielded something or other - this vasty improved all of my stats!

[MoHux]

Now you know why they call it CAT5 cable!!

[old Bill]

Thanks for the advice. Have new cable on order from ADSL Nation. if helps Improve my stats as well that would be PURFECT

[MoHux]

 

[CrossTalk]

I'm curious about this one !

Being a natural sceptic, I was recently amused by Maplin offering me a "High Speed" adsl cable for £13, complete with Gold plated RJ11 connectors and tinned copper braided screen.

Given that my ADSL service is delivered over an unscreened 3km length of 20 year old twisted pair copper cable, mostly bundled with a whole load of other signal carrying cables and with a few punch down terminations along it's route - is there really much benefit to be had with all this flash cable for the last 3 metres ? 


Phil.

[AvengerUK]

No, it only made a difference with me if went direct from the router, to my master phone socket. - to do this is just bought two sets of the wire!

It was worth it in my case, as my line is really poor. - others may not see a difference!

[Inactive]

I have had a similar discussion elsewhere about Gold Plated Scart Leads, there really isn't any benefit in putting Gold Plated anything in to a standard metal socket, indeed, over a period of time incompatablity may well cause the degradation of the link through metal corrosion.

I am not sure if that applies to Cat5 cables tho'.

As for the " copper " 3km of cable....I should be so lucky, mine is cr*ppy aluminium.

[sallyandjames]

The only logic I can see in this situation is that the cables behind most people's routers tend to end up a coiled tangled mess stuffed down the back of somewhere or other.

The comms cables are invariable tangled with AC cables, and equally often end up sat coiled up near transformers etc.

We also tend to have more wireless appliances knocking around our homes than there is under the ground.

The cumulative effect of all this RF Noise *could* cause a fair bit of interferance on the line once its inside your house, so perhaps that the argument.

Personally I think its a load of tosh, and I wouldn't listen to a word of it.

/....wonders about getting one of these fancy new cables.

[Nerval]

For a fee just less than you would otherwise spend on worthless junk, I can summon up the spirits of the departed, use pyramid technology, holistic phrenology,  homeopathy, dowsing and crystal therapy to improve your broadband connection.

(Also available for weddings and bar mitzvahs.)

[Inactive]

 

As long as they don't interfere with my wi fi set up... 

[sallyandjames]

@Nerval, thats the same technology as Plusnet use for fixing faults. 

[old Bill]

Well I can only speak as I find. It could be one of many factors but since I pluged in my new modem cable I have seen a diffrence noware near as many errors on the line and for me a speed increase. I chose a Belkin Pro Series in the end. For me it was worth the extra money.

[Rik]

I used to be a cable sceptic. All this OFC audio cabling etc, I didn't believe that a bit of wire could make a difference to sound quality. Then I sat down with a £1k Meridian CD player and a £5k pair of Meridian active speakers, and auditioned a range of 'ordinary' and top end cables (I was paid to do this). I could definitely hear an improvement in clarity with the high-end cables, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I then ran a 'blind' test on a group of friends and they, too, could hear the difference.

Now, this isn't much related to ADSL I concede , but I do believe the shielded cables, which rely on the Faraday cage effect, have the potential to benefit users. The reason I say this is that, although relatively short in terms of the total line length, that piece between socket and modem is going to be in a hotbed of electrical activity which surrounds the average PC. I can't prove it works better than a normal cable due to the fact that changing it for a different cable forces a re-sync, but I do know that nothing locally appears to impact on my signal. I'm happy enough with that.

[Nerval]

Bill
Can u give us a link to your particular cable and I'll give it a go and let you know my figures before and after.
I'm one of those sceptics who dismisses stuff like expensive cables, then buys a toprange SCART for my PVR "just in case" it makes any difference lol 

[Rik]

Actually, SCARTs are one of the best examples of good and bad cables. The cheap, unshielded ones, will often cause cross talk when used on a TV that outputs its signal on the SCART. A fully-shielded cable prevents this. Gold-plated contacts are always worthwhile, but I've yet to be convinced on the merits of OFC with such dire signal quality. One thing I am convinced of is that the SCART plug/socket itself is one of the worst designs I have ever seen.

[old Bill]

This is ware i got my cable from. You may be able to get it cheaper as I did haggle a bit and get the price down.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BEL-102710

[Inactive]

Actually, SCARTs are one of the best examples of good and bad cables. The cheap, unshielded ones, will often cause cross talk when used on a TV that outputs its signal on the SCART. A fully-shielded cable prevents this. Gold-plated contacts are always worthwhile, but I've yet to be convinced on the merits of OFC with such dire signal quality. One thing I am convinced of is that the SCART plug/socket itself is one of the worst designs I have ever seen.

Sorry Rik, cannot agree with your gold plated theory, I do agree that a well shielded product may give some benefit.

I certainly agree with your last statement, whoever designed it ( I believe it was a French man ) certainly didn't give it a lot of thought.

Many scart related issues are because the bloody thing is loose or has fallen out.

A Parallel Printer type connection would have been so much better.

[old Bill]

My Sky HD Box came with a basic HDMI cable. I brought a new and the picture is so much better.

[Inactive]

I am still to be convinced that the HD picture on an LCD TV is any better than an SD picture on a good quality standard CRT TV....It may just possibly be as good on a good quality plasma set.

[Nerval]

Yeah, I was watching HDTV in Dixons the other week, and the only difference I could see is that it looks clear from nearer.

But I do find the LCD pix to be clearer than the plasma ones.
I'd read that plasma is on the way out, but it seems to be making a comeback.

[old Bill]

I have seen HD on cheaper tvs and its not that wonderful. However my tv is shall we say one of the better ones around (fancy german brand) and HD is really is stunning.

[Rik]

Sorry Rik, cannot agree with your gold plated theory, I do agree that a well shielded product may give some benefit.

Do you not find the lack of oxidisation a benefit over time? That's the only reason I advocate it.

I certainly agree with your last statement, whoever designed it ( I believe it was a French man ) certainly didn't give it a lot of thought.

Many scart related issues are because the bloody thing is loose or has fallen out.

A Parallel Printer type connection would have been so much better.

I agree on all three points. Of course, the French typically give it a different name (probably the guy who designed it!). Me, I'd have liked a Tuschel connection with a nice securing collar.

[Inactive]

Quite the reverse Rik regarding oxidisation, I have found that a metallic reaction occurs  due I guess to the incompatiblity of the gold plating against the standard socket, never seen that with a standard Scart Lead.

Indeed, the scart was called a Euroconnector in it's early days, it is still a flawed design by any name.

[Nerval]

Any research metallurgists out there?   

[Rik]

Indeed, the scart was called a Euroconnector in it's early days, it is still a flawed design by any name.

Or a Peritel in France.

I've not seen an issue with the gold-plated connectors. You haven't been brushing nitric acid on yours have you?

[Rik]

Any research metallurgists out there?   

I would be interesting to hear from them if there were. I thought gold was meant to be inert?

[Nerval]

Well, here's an update on new RJ11 cables!!

Got one from broadbandbuyer like Bill's, double sheathed, extra twisted by virgins underwater, gold plated, Belkin High Speed,  guaranteed to be the fastest thing on earth second only to Sweep chasing a bird.
It came this morning - wonderful service.  Looks good, many times thicker than the puny thing I was replacing.

Connected and resynched at 5920, exactly the same as before.  All stats identical.

Hmm, I thought, at least it's no worse.  I wonder if I reboot again I can get it to 6240 and a BRAS rate of 5500.

You can guess the rest..........................

Eight reboots later and I'm at 5504 with a BRAS of 4500 instead of the 5000 I've had since the power went off nearly a fortnight ago.


So my considered opinion of high speed replacement cables at the moment is not repeatable. 

[Rik]

Whatever you do, don't re-boot anymore - 10 in an hour with kick the DLM into action.

[Nerval]

Thank you for those few kind words.
The eight was a figure of speech - I wasn't counting and have done a couple more since.  So it may be less or more than ten. 

I'm calling it a day synching at 5472 and will turn the bugger off tonight and try again tomorrow.

ps Just done a BT Test and don't seem to have done any damage:

IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5472 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4476 kbps

Can't understand why it's left the BRAS rate at 5000, but then there is so much I don't understand..........

[old Bill]

Just shows you what a lousy cable came with my router.  I did not get a large increase in sync. It went up from 5630 to 5696 just enough to take me in to a new profile. Think my line errors have shot up now. What does everyone think ? Thats in just under a day.

Uptime:   0 days, 23:48:21

Modulation:   G.992.1 Annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:   832 / 5,696

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]:   123.37 / 1.12

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:   11.5 / 19.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:   29.0 / 48.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:   8.0 / 6.5

Vendor ID (Local/Remote):   TMMB / 

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):   0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):   2 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote):   0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   334 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down):   726 / 47,323,439

CRC Errors (Up/Down):   248 / 557

HEC Errors (Up/Down):   220 / 440

[Rik]

Can't understand why it's left the BRAS rate at 5000, but then there is so much I don't understand..........

Could be the blip logic is shielding you from a profile change for the moment, though it should definitely drop to 4500 on that sync speed.

An overnight off sounds like a good idea. Fwiw, I've got a Belkin lead myself, and it does seem to give me a small increase in noise margin, but this seems to be one of those YMMV issues.

[Nerval]

Bill
Yours looks very similar to my own, except your upstream is worse.
You get loads of FEC errors with interleaving on - that's what it does.

Just for interest, I've been perfectly happy with mine at a BRAS rate of 5Mb, and in just under 12 days of non-stop connection, I got:

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:   832 / 5,920
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:   12.0 / 19.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:   27.0 / 50.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:   21.0 / 6.0


Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   31,304 /0

FEC Errors (Up/Down):   ? / 2,879,950,749   (i.e. 3 billion)

CRC Errors (Up/Down):   20 / 335,642

HEC Errors (Up/Down):   12/ 298,788

[Inactive]

Or a Peritel in France.

I've not seen an issue with the gold-plated connectors. You haven't been brushing nitric acid on yours have you?

Nope, but the gold plating on the one that I used became degraded over time and the plating started to peel away from the under metal, I changed it for a good quality shielded Scart Lead, no problems since.

[Rik]

Obviously, when they said high quality, they didn't include the plating. An unfortunate experience, at least in my experience.

[Nerval]

Well 5 more tries this morning still hasn't got me above 5500 sync rate, so that's me 5Mb profile buggered for today as well.  Not that it matters as I've nothing to download.

[Rik]

You've always got my honeyed words to download.

[Nerval]

Yeah, that'll be why I'm over my limit lol 

[Inactive]

You and me both Nerv, oh well, whats a quid for this quality entertainment.. 

[Nerval]

the phrase "money down the drain" springs to mind

if Rik made shorter posts, he'd keep our bills down. 

[Rik]

Of course, given my post here, there is an alternative way...