Is it worth trying ADSL Max again?

[Aaron]

It was about 4 years ago I was able to get ADSL from my local Horam exchange once it got enabled, the only speed I was able to get at the time was 512kbit due to the distance I am from the exchange - about 4.09km as the crow flies, but with a lot of bendy countryside roads this distance is a lot bigger.

Then a year later BT had improvements of some sort to allow 1mbit at that distance, I regraded to it and it was very stable as well. Another year later the Horam exchange got ADSL Max enabled and I decided to try it asap. During the 10 day period I was able to get speeds of 4-6mbit but I suffered a lot of dropped syncs (not dropped PPP), which worsened by evening as much as 30-60 sync drops per hour. After the 10 day testing period it was still as bad as ever, and after a month I told Nildram to downgrade me back to fixed 1mbit since there was nothing they could do about it.

Shortly after, BT again did nationwide improvements to allow 2mbit to reach long distance, I regraded to that with Nildram and the line is still stable. Since then, I migrated over to IDnet fixed 2mbit (due to that Nildram and Telia routing debacle causing repeated cut offs from certain World of Warcraft realms) and the line is still solid.

Would there be any point in trying out ADSL Max again as it's been 2 years since I last tried it, and chances are it's a lot improved now?

My line stats if it helps:



edit: I did get Interleaving enabled some 15 or 20 days after getting my line Max enabled while troubleshooting with Nildram, but this didn't help sync drop matters at all, and besides I rather not have interleaving due to the increased ping.

[Rik]

You ought to be able to get 3-3.5Mbps throughput with those stats, Aaron, though how stable the line will be depends on issues that the stats don't show until you've made the move to Max. Have you done all the 'normal' stuff with your internal wiring, ie removed the ring wire, made sure there are no flat extensions in use etc?

[Sebby]

What version Netgear is this, Aaron? There are other routers that are a lot more stable on ADSL max. I think that if you get your internal wiring sorted as best as possible, and get a new router (something like a SpeedTouch 585) you should be able to get another 1Mb or so.

[Aaron]

This is a Netgear DG834G v4, although at the time I was on Max testing I had a Westell ProLine 6100 Ethernet modem hooked up to a linux box. I thought going for a router that's pretty common would be the best solution but not decided on trying Max again yet since the Netgear purchase.

Not sure what I can do to my internal wiring (if that's from my room to the telephone socket), the line is about 6 meters long at an estimate going through a wall to another bedroom and down the floor to the living room to the telephone socket, although there's a lot of excess cable it's about 15meters in length probably. I googled up on ring wire and that's something I will have to check, and this is a detached house so no flat extensions. The telephone socket is fitted with an adsl filter and it's also very near some electrical equipment.

But still, why I had a month long of ADSL Max issues is beyond me, the average consumer is not going to know anything about ring wires and it seems fine for most people. My telephone socket might be a bit dodgy, it got damp when BT checked it after I asked IDNet why I was suffering sync losses throughout the day. But when it got damp a 2nd time BT said they would charge me for the 3rd visit if it happened again. If I had my way I'd ask them to re-do everything with a new line, and a new socket in a more suitable location. (If you're thinking it was a damp socket when I was on Max it can't be, my sync was fine on fixed speed, and after when I was regraded back to fixed speed. The dampness issue happened a year after Max)

[Rik]

When I referred to flat extensions, Aaron, I was talking about the physical make up of the cable. Flat cables don't use twisted pairs, and the twisted pair actually reduces noise pick up, so a flat lead had a big impact, potentially, on ADSL signals.

No need to Google on ring wires, just read our wiring guide.

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1904.msg31528#msg31528

[Aaron]

Would this be the cable from my modem to the socket Rik? I don't know what kind of cable it is except it was supplied with my westell modem I believe. Could you suggest a cable for me?

It also came to mind I remembered I have a second telephone socket fitted up on the first floor back from my 56k Internet days and has since been deactivated once I was able to get ADSL. But as it's somewhat brand new and has less chance of dampness higher up in the house I wondered about moving ADSL to that. Would be costly to do I suppose with extra line rental, the 50quid ADSL activation fee but would maybe work out better as I'd only have a 3meter length cable from the modem to my 2nd telephone socket.

[Rik]

No, it's the cable from the master socket to the extension that concerns me, Aaron. Some people, myself included, have found a benefit in using a shielded RJ11 cable between the phone socket and the router, but it's very much a 'personal experience' decision.

The closer socket would be better, but perhaps a cheaper route would be to get BT to relocate your current master socket. IAC, if damp is getting in, it suggests that BT haven't sealed the cable entry. I wouldn't pay to have the work done until you have no other option. The master socket is BT's property and it's up to them to ensure it's fit for purpose.

[Aaron]

I'm not sure what wiring there is from the master socket to the extension(?) and fiddling around on BT sockets isn't something I'd want to do.

Also I forgot to add that from what I see outside the house it looks as if the 2nd telephone line to the first floor is made up of wires from the original telephone line, rather than a fresh new line from the telephone post across the road outside, (if that adds any implications to ADSL quality if I was on Max) although it did have its own telephone number.

[Rik]

Usually the cable entering the property on which the line is carried have two or three pairs. The internal cables are again made up of two or three pairs, so running a second line in involves activating the external pair, then connecting them to one of the unused internal pairs, most commonly the green/white, white/green combination. As I said, if damp is entering with the external cabling, then it's up to BT to fix it.

[Sebby]

[Aaron]

Ok, I've sent an email to Openreach asking if they could send round an engineer to redo all the wiring and moving the master socket to a more suitable location, basically the full works to iron out any bad or old wiring/damp for the sake of optimizing ADSL and reducing any possible line noise (if there is any), so I can try out ADSL Max again, including disabling the ring wire.

I also mentioned that I had 2 incidents of the socket getting damp, and the second time an engineer came round I asked him if he could fit in an ADSL faceplate in addition, but he didn't really understand and put this in instead:

 

So still had to use my filter!

Anyway I hope I'm still doing things right, just waiting to hear back from them so I can see what the fee will cost

[Aaron]

And interesting Rik, why don't BT utilize these unused lines for double/triple ADSL speeds if every house has 2/3 unused lines in addition to their phone line? 

[Rik]

Because they don't have the spare pairs back to the exchange, basically. I'd be a bit surprised if Openreach respond, tbh, as you're not their customer. You will probably need to go through whoever you rent the line from, eg BT Retail.

[Sebby]

Indeed. Don't mention ADSL, as broadband "faults" have to go via your ISP.

[Aaron]

Yeah you're right:

At Openreach, our customers are the Communications Providers and we do not deal directly with their customers.  Unfortunately we do not have access to your information, however you will need to contact your Provider.  Please note that this is a chargeable and your Provider will be able to assist and arrange this for you.

Is my provider IDNet or BT Retail?

Sebby, I think I recall having a bad experience with that as I got bounced between my ISP and BT repeatedly when it came to having an issue.

[Rik]

If BT bill you for calls, it's BT.

[Sebby]

Yep, for voice faults, go via BT. For broadband issues, go via your ISP. If it's a voice fault that you think is affecting your broadband as well, I'd still go through BT.

[Rik]

In which case, don't mention ADSL at all...

[Sebby]

Indeed.