Sloooow speed

[HavellN]

Hi All,

Just wanted to throw this out there, my broadband connection over the last month or so has been getting worse.  this is a bt speedtest results i did about 30mins ago:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 2496 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 84 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

my router seems to reconnect fairly frequently, usually dropping the speed each time.  if i turn the router off for 20mins or so then the next connection will show high but actually be around the same as above.  the router is connected on a phone line extension but the same is still true if i put it into the master socket.  This is the second router i have tried and both give the same results.

looking on the usertools.plus.net site about the exchange information (EABSE), there is a red warning about congestion on the virtual paths, which i presume means the exchange is overly busy but again presumably that does not mean 24/7.  21CN is scheduled for the end of march this year, perhaps that would help

Just wondering if anyone has any great ideas, have been trying to work from home using RDC but that is now just painful at the moment!

thanks,
Nath

[Sebby]

Your problem is that the profile is at 135k owing to the instability that you mention. Unfortunately, without stabilising things, you won't be able to take advantage of your sync speed as the profile will never have a chance to catch up. Incidentally, the profile can take 3 days to increase.

You mention congestion, but this won't be your problem. The problem is a local issue, i.e. either within your property, or along your line somewhere to the exchange. Noise is the most common factor, and there a few things you can do to try and get to the bottom of this.

You mention that you've tried the master socket, but have you tried the test socket (you'll need to take the faceplate off carefully, and just let it dangle as the extension wiring will be connected to it - you'll see a socket behind the plate, which is the test socket).

Before you do this, could you login to your router and post the line statistics. Then try the test socket, and let us see the new stats - that'll help us to see if noise being picked up by extension wiring is to blame.

[HavellN]

Hey Sebby,

sorry when i said master socket i did mean the test socket under the face plate.  Also i should mention that i have disconnected the bell wire too but that was a couple of months ago now.

are these the statistics you refer to?

ADSL Link         Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   928 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation      54 db      15.5 db
Noise Margin         12 db         16 db

[Sebby]

They're the ones.

Your current sync speed is significantly lower than it was about 30 minutes ago when you ran the BT test, so something's really not right. Your target margin is 12dB, which suggests that the exchange has tried to stabilise your line (albeit unsuccessfully).

When you say you've tried the test socket, how long did you try it for?

[HavellN]

do you mean 12db for the line attenuation value?

think the router was in the test socket most of yesterday, it seemed to level out at about 460kbps while i was using it.

I shall be away for a fair part of this weekend from this evening so i could reconnect it to the test socket then if that would help?

[Sebby]

The attenuation is 54dB, which suggests you're quite some way from the exchange.

If you're pretty sure the test socket isn't helping, it's got to be a line issue, in which case you need to get in touch with IDNet, and they'll raise it with BT.

[HavellN]

yep, its a good 1-2 miles to the exchange.

what do i need to do with the test socket (just to make sure), connect the router directly to it and leave for a number of days?  what results would i be looking for, just a huge consistent speed increase?

[Sebby]

That's exactly right. Really, it's not the speed that you get from a speed test that we're interested in, as that is related to the profile, which itself is related to the sync. We're looking for stability at the test socket, i.e. no or few disconnections, and a sync rate that doesn't fluctuate very much.

[HavellN]

ok, Ill give it a go.  in terms of results of this test then if there is still alot of recconects then it is a line issue presumably and if it goes smoothly it is something inside the house causing the interference?

[Sebby]

Exactly.

[HavellN]

thanks for your help

fingers crossed

[Sebby]

NP. Good luck!

[Rik]

It's possible also that using a different router would help, Havell. That looks like a Netgear from your stats, and I have a similar line length to you, but sync stably at >3000k. When I was using the Netgear, it was about 1M lower and much less stable.

[HavellN]

Yes it is a NetGear, good spot   The other router i have is a speedtouch 580.

Have just connected the router (NetGear still) direct to the test socket, these are the current stats...

ADSL Link         Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   2336 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation      57 db   15.5 db
Noise Margin            12 db   17 db

[Rik]

Your attenuation has gone up by 3db (equivalent to about 300 metres of extra line), which suggests something is not right. Are you using a filter to connect through? If so, it might be worth trying another one in case it's not making a good connection in the socket, but be very careful not to disconnect more than about 10 times an hour, otherwise your line will be flagged as unstable by BT's software.

[HavellN]

ok, have put a different filter on now, still says 57db though...

ADSL Link         Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   2432 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation         57 db   15.5 db
Noise Margin            11 db   18 db

[Rik]

Slightly better speed though... It makes me wonder whether the faceplate is making a better connection than the filters. Leave it for now, but when you reconnect the faceplate, check if the attenuation goes down again.

[HavellN]

ok, Ill leave it be fore a while see what happens.

going back to the 10 disconnects causing a the line to be flagged, how is the line un-flagged? do you have to request it? can you tell if it has been flagged?

[Rik]

Time, in a word.

What happens is that the BT software increases the target noise margin in an attempt to stabilise the lines. Initially, with Max, that target is set at 6db. It is incremented in 3db steps if the line shows instability (it appears to have been lifted to 12db for you). Each 3db will cost you around 5-700k of sync speed. The maximum target is 15db.

If you maintain sync for 14+ days, the system will reduce the target by 3db, repeating this until it reaches 6db or you line becomes unstable again. Stability, to BT, means that the line doesn't frequently disconnect, and the threshold seems to be at 10 per hour.

If you do need to disconnect, it's usually a good idea to power the router down. This sends a 'last gasp' signal to the DSLAM, which it takes to mean "there's nothing wrong, I'm just turning off" and so doesn't react to it.

[HavellN]

Coolio, thanks for all your help

[Rik]

NP.

[HavellN]

router has just disconnected/reconnected stats are now:

ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   1568 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   56 db   15.5 db
Noise Margin   6 db   16 db

however the noise margin on the downstream is/was cycling between 0 and about 7 then would go all the way up to 250000 odd 

[HavellN]

also had this in the logs:

Fri, 2009-02-06 15:52:43 - LCP down.
Fri, 2009-02-06 15:52:50 - Initialize LCP.
Fri, 2009-02-06 15:52:50 - LCP is allowed to come up.

[Rik]

The high figure is Netgear's way of trying to tell you, very badly, that the noise margin has gone negative, Havell. In practice, that can't actually happen, but it does explain why Netgears apparently can hold a line down to very low margin levels. The change of attenuation is a bit troubling, and it would be worth trying the Speedtouch to see if you can gain more stability. Apparently, your target is still at 6db, so I am not sure quite what is going on, and I think eliminating the router as the possible problem would be wise at this point.

The log entry is just the record of the loss of sync.

[Sebby]

I think the router is potentially to blame in part, as Netgears (in my experience) are not great on long lines. If you're up for changing the router, you might want to try that first - something like a 2Wire 2700HGV or SpeedTouch 585 would be good. Failing that, it'll most likely be an external line issue, in which case you'll have to get BT involved via IDNet.

[HavellN]

back with an update:

router has been connected for almost 18 consecutive days now, at the glorious speeds below:

ADSL Link             Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed  480 kbps        448 kbps
Line Attenuation    53 db            15.5 db
Noise Margin         15 db             18 db

also, where is the best place to buy a 2Wire 2700HGV from? can only seem to find them on ebay?

thanks,
Nath

[Simon]

Yup, that's the only place you can get them, Nath.  Don't pay more than twenty quid, and try to get a new one. 

[Rik]

Preferably Dual SSID.

[HavellN]

Thanks guys.

Ive put a bid in for one, fingers crossed.

What does a dual SSID version give extra?

[Rik]

It's the latest version, other than that there's little practical difference as the second SSID is only for use with the BT Fusion service.

[Glenn]

Also with the dual SSID, you won't get a 12 day reboot, if the single SSID model has SBC firmware loaded.

[Rik]

This is true, though I found the single SSID, SBC, model gave me a higher sync.

[Sebby]

back with an update:

router has been connected for almost 18 consecutive days now, at the glorious speeds below:

ADSL Link             Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed  480 kbps        448 kbps
Line Attenuation    53 db            15.5 db
Noise Margin         15 db             18 db

also, where is the best place to buy a 2Wire 2700HGV from? can only seem to find them on ebay?

thanks,
Nath

Ouch. Something's really wrong there, even if it's been stable.

[HavellN]

I've managed to secure a 2700HGV from ebay, hopefully that will arrive in the next couple of days...

[Glenn]

The set up guides can be found at http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=8927.0

[HavellN]

Cool thanks for the link, hopefully it will all go smoothly

[HavellN]

Back again, got the 2700HGV setup and installed this evening.  the Netgear router had stayed connected for 24 days at the same profile speed 480kps.  Currently on a worse speed with the new router.  Ive listed some of the info the new router gives me currently, also done a BT speedtest.

Is there anyway i can get my BRAS profile reset, to restart from scratch as it were?

thanks in advance for any useful comments
Nath

DSL Connection Details
  DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
  Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
  Downstream Rate: 2272 kbps 
  Upstream Rate: 448 kbps 
  Channel: Interleaved
  Current Noise Margin: 5.0 dB (Downstream) 17.0 dB (Upstream)
  Current Attenuation: 59.2 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)
  Current Output Power: 17.7 dBm (Downstream) 11.9 dBm (Upstream)
  DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0x0F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0x00}
  PVC Info: 0/38

Data Errors

Statistics Collected for 0:58:35

	Since Reset	Current 24-Hour Interval	Current 15-Minute Interval	Time Since Last Event
ATM Cell Header Errors:	1079	1079	975	0:00:00
ATM Loss of Cell Delineation:	486	486	447	0:00:00
DSL Link Retrains:	1	1	0	0:20:01
DSL Training Errors:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Training Timeouts:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Loss of Framing Failures:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Loss of Signal Failures:	2	2	0	0:25:02
DSL Loss of Power Failures:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Loss of Margin Failures:	2	2	0	0:25:02
DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds:	290	290	241	0:00:00
DSL Severely Errored Seconds:	6	6	4	0:00:50
DSL Corrected Blocks:	10852	10852	9738	0:00:00
DSL Uncorrected Blocks:	1171	1171	1062	0:00:00
ISP Connection Establishment:	2	2	2	0:39:10

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 2208 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 83 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

[Sebby]

If you sync at night, there is more noise around, so you sync lower to achieve the target SNRM. Your profile is still at 135k, so your throughput is going to be terrible. Hopefully things will be a bit more stable and it will clear shortly.

[HavellN]

Stats at the moment:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 104 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

DSL Connection Details
  DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
  Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
  Downstream Rate: 448 kbps 
  Upstream Rate: 448 kbps 
  Channel: Interleaved
  Current Noise Margin: 14.0 dB (Downstream) 16.0 dB (Upstream)
  Current Attenuation: 59.2 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)
  Current Output Power: 14.8 dBm (Downstream) 11.9 dBm (Upstream)
  DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0x0F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0x00}
  PVC Info: 0/38

All these errors below dont look good to me, anyone know what exactly thay mean?

Statistics
Collected for 9:00:24

	Since Reset	Current 24-Hour Interval	Current 15-Minute Interval	Time Since Last Event
ATM Cell Header Errors:	36253	36253	6	0:00:06
ATM Loss of Cell Delineation:	27963	27963	1	0:00:17
DSL Link Retrains:	3	3	0	6:51:55
DSL Training Errors:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Training Timeouts:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Loss of Framing Failures:	4	4	0	6:51:56
DSL Loss of Signal Failures:	16	16	0	6:51:56
DSL Loss of Power Failures:	0	0	0	0:00:00
DSL Loss of Margin Failures:	133	133	0	6:51:56
DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds:	3270	3270	4	0:00:06
DSL Severely Errored Seconds:	745	745	0	0:05:03
DSL Corrected Blocks:	98820	98820	27	0:00:06
DSL Uncorrected Blocks:	37767	37767	7	0:00:06
ISP Connection Establishment:	0	0	0	0:00:00

[Rik]

The most important one, Nath, is that you've dropped the connection 3 times in 9 hours (it could even be 16 times, I've never known the difference between link retrains, which I tthink is re-syncs, and loss of signal). Clearly, you're re-connecting at a lower speed, which is what's pushing the profile down - if you go to the DSL diagnostics page, you should see the lower speeds listed there.

Something is putting a horrible amount of noise on your line and, until that is resolved, re-training would achieve nothing.

[Glenn]

Those connection stats look just like my line

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Are you seeing drops, Glenn?

[Glenn]

I had 9 or 10 ppp drops 2 days ago, since then it's been fine, still chugging on my 2000kbs profile, before that I had 7 days with no problems.

[Rik]

Mmm. Nath's screen is worded differently, so there's no clue there as to which was dropping, but the profile suggests sync.

[HavellN]

ok, heres the DSL Diagnostics info:

General Information
  DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
  Downstream Rate Cap: 8128 kbps
  Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 57.5 dB

  Uncancelled Echo: -13.2 dB Ok
  VCXO Frequency Offset: 1.2 ppm Ok
  Final Rx Gain: 34.5 dB Ok
  Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok
  Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
  Impulse noise protection:  0.94
  Delay of latency path:  4.00 ms

Sorry for the small font on this one

	Downstream		Upstream
Time	Line		Rate	Max1	Max2	Max3	Mgn1	Mgn2	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs	INP	DLY		Rate	Max	Mgn	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs		Mode	Vendor	State	Exit Code	Echo	VCXO	Rx Gain	INC Tones
2009/03/04 22:06:16 GMT	1		2208	2216	1792	1792	12.1	12.0	59.2	17.6	13	177	0.63	4.00		448	812	17.0	31.5	11.9	0	2		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	230/103	IDLE_REQUEST	-14.1	-3.8	34.5	0
2009/03/04 22:43:46 GMT	1		2272	2292	608	608	12.2	0.0	59.2	17.7	11664	46166	0.62	4.00		448	816	17.0	31.5	11.9	1983	2082		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	230/103	ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT	-15.0	2.1	34.5	0
2009/03/05 01:15:52 GMT	1		1216	1244	0	0	12.3	-1.0	59.2	16.8	33231	83393	0.74	4.00		448	828	17.0	31.5	11.9	2669	2220		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	230/103	ERR_LOS_LIMIT	-16.3	2.3	34.5	0
2009/03/05 01:16:30 GMT	1		672	688	380	380	12.4	2.0	59.2	15.5	260	441	0.67	4.00		448	772	15.0	31.5	11.9	51	58		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	230/103	ERR_LOF_LIMIT	-16.3	1.9	34.5	0
2009/03/05 01:18:29 GMT	1		1440	1448	1064	1064	12.1	-1.0	59.2	16.9	2737	4114	0.64	4.00		448	824	17.0	31.5	11.9	427	464		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	230/103	ERR_LOS_LIMIT	-17.1	0.1	34.5	0
2009/03/05 12:51:36 GMT	1		448	460	-1208	-1208	12.3	7.0	59.2	14.8	14454	70769	0.94	4.00		448	796	16.0	31.5	11.9	878	872		G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	229/103	N/A	-13.2	1.2	34.5	0

[Rik]

That's not good, Nath. Four re-syncs since midnight and two yesterday evening. While that's going on, your profile is going to stay low.

Have you done all the usual checks, eg connecting to the test socket, listening for interference with an AM radio etc?

[HavellN]

I tried before using the test socket and it didnt seem to make a lot of difference.

I have removed the bell wire.  What is the trick with the AM radio?

Other stuff on other phone sockets are a cordless bt phone in the living room, a non coredless phone upstairs, and sky HD in the living room - all have filters attached.

thanks,
Nath

[Rik]

It would be worth unplugging the Sky box for a while, Nath, and see if that makes any difference. Sky box modems are notoriously noisy.

ADSL uses the same frequency range as AM radio (which is one of the reasons why noise is greater at night due to the increased propagation of radio waves). Take a battery powered AM radio and tune it away from a station, so that you just have white noise. Wander around the house, particularly near electrical appliances and the phone sockets (and cable to the router) and listen for that noise to increase. If it does, then you have a noise problem and should be able to use the radio to isolate the cause. The other thing to try is swapping the filters, or doubling them up (two in series). This can sometimes trap a bit more noise.

If you run RouterStats for 24 hours or more, you'll also build a better picture of whether the noise is cyclical or random. You can download RS from here:

http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

[HavellN]

ok, have unplugged sky and the upstairs phone now.  have turned the router off and on again.  it now seems to have upgraded its firmware to version 6.1.1.48.1-enh.tm even though i had put all the recommended DNS entries in...

havent managed to find a battery powered AM Radio yet...

currently working at home via a vpn so not so easy to do some of the speedtests that are out there.

thanks,
Nath

General Information
  DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
  Downstream Rate Cap: 8128 kbps
  Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 57.5 dB
  Uncancelled Echo: -16.3 dB Ok
  VCXO Frequency Offset: -2.1 ppm Ok
  Final Rx Gain: 34.5 dB Ok
  Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok
  Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
  Impulse noise protection:  0.76
  Delay of latency path:  4.00 ms

Time Line	Rate	Max1	Max2	Max3	Mgn1	Mgn2	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs	INP	DLY	Rate	Max	Mgn	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs	Mode	Vendor	State	Exit Code	Echo	VCXO	Rx Gain	INC	Tones
2009/03/05 14:31:01 GMT	1	576 596	1516	1516	12.4	16.0	59.1	15.2	5392	11509	0.76	4.00	448	844	17.0	31.5	11.9	163	235	G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	236/104	N/A	-16.3	-2.1	34.5	0

[Rik]

Doesn't look like it's the Sky box then, Nath.

[HavellN]

From that then i take there would be an immediate difference?

[Rik]

There would. I'm just getting your line tested, back shortly.

[Rik]

Hi Nath

A line test revealed an earth contact error, and the DLM reports that you're sending disconnect requests, which suggests you may not have the router set to ignore idle timeouts.

Go to:

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=B05&THISPAGE=B02&NEXTPAGE=B05

and ensure you have a 0 in the PPP on demand box, that will stop the router timing out.

What IDNet then need you to do, is disconnect your face plate and give them a ring. They will repeat the line test, if the earth fault remains, it's a BT problem, if it disappears, there's a fault in your internal wiring or one of the connected devices, ie router, filters, Sky box, phones.

[HavellN]

Cool, thanks for doing the line test

unfortunately the router has upgraded itself to v6 and that page link does not work now, cant see anything that sounds like the option you mention...

could it be the bell wire causing the contact, think it is just stuffed into the housing box thing

thanks,
Nath

[Rik]

It's possible, though it shouldn't be earthed. The Sky box or phones are more likely, failing which filter or router.

Go to 192.168.1.254, then look for Broadband link > Advanced settings, it's the page where you enter the username and password, at least on the firmware I'm running.

[HavellN]

on v6: http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=C_1_1

PPP Authentication and Settings
Username and password are required if you select PPPoE or PPPoA connection type

Username:   
Password:   
Confirm Password:   

DSL and ATM
ATM Circuit Identifier: VPI: 0 VCI: 38
ATM Encapsulation:  Routed VC-Mux
ATM PVC Search: Enabled

Connection Type
Connection Type:  PPPoA

Broadband IP Network
IP Addressing: Obtain IP address automatically (dynamic IP or DHCP)
Manually specify IP address settings:
IP Address:
Subnet Mask:
Default Gateway:
DNS: Obtain DNS information automatically
Manually specify your DNS information:
Primary Server:
Secondary Server:
Domain Name:
Upstream MTU:   1500


Public IP Address
Add Additional Network
Router Address:   
Subnet Mask   
Auto Firewall Open:   

Disable Routing
Routing Enabled (Default is enabled. Routing disabled = Bridge mode)
Warning: When you disable routing, the gateway's local IP address gets set to 192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0
If you want to connect to the gateway when it is in bridged mode to change its configuration parameters, you must:
Configure your computer's IP address to work on the same subnet (ex. 192.168.1.x, 255.255.255.0)
Attach your computer to the local network port of the gateway
Enter 192.168.1.254 as the address in a web browser
Note: When routing is disabled, NAT and the DHCP Server are disabled.

[Rik]

Obviously, it's changed, can you take a look through each of the settings page for references to PPP on demand or idle timeout.

[HavellN]

Ive had a look, cant see anything that fits, there does seem to be less options to what i remember of the previous version...

[Rik]

Do you have a spare router you can try, you used to use a Netgear, iirc?

[HavellN]

I have got a netgear that i was using.  Ill look to do the line test you mentioned earlier now, aswell as removing the face plate i presume the test socket should be empty?

lazy question - do you have the number i need to call please?

thanks,
Nath

[Rik]

0800 0267237 (until 18:30 today, 18:00 tomorrow).

[HavellN]

Thanks   have given them a ring and spoken to James, he suggests switching the router off for 30mins to reset the connection at the BT end, then if that doesnt do the trick he will pick it up tomorrow morning. 

fingers are crossed

thanks for all your help and useful knowhow

Nath

[Rik]

NP, Nath. I spoke to Brian, who ran the test for me, so he knows more of the background (unless he's put some notes on the system).

[HavellN]

Powered the router back up after a nice long break, have also got RouterStats running currently.  Connection Speed is currently constant at 2112kps, Noise Margin is cycling between 12db and 6db.  BT Speedtest still says the BRAS profile is 135k so the actual download speed is still pants...

Will wait to see what magic James @ IDNet can do tomorrow...

thanks,
Nath

[Sebby]

[HavellN]

hmm, things not so good this morning...

Info from the router:

Time Line	Rate	Max1	Max2	Max3	Mgn1	Mgn2	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs	INP	DLY	Rate	Max	Mgn	Attn	Pwr	CRCs	FECs	Mode	Vendor	State	Exit Code	Echo	VCXO	Rx Gain	INC	Tones
2009/03/05 23:05:04 GMT	1	2112	2120	1028	1028	12.1	2.0	59.2	17.8	100875	160272	0.66	4.00	448	816	17.0	31.5	11.8	5867	5386	G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	237/104	ERR_LOF_LIMIT	-14.9	-9.9	34.5	0
2009/03/06 02:08:09 GMT	1	1472	1488	236	236	12.2	0.0	59.1	17.0	60911	99691	0.63	4.00	448	820	17.0	31.5	11.9	2971	3058	G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	237/104	ERR_LOS_LIMIT	-14.3	-0.2	34.5	0
2009/03/06 07:29:55 GMT	1	352	356	-1136	-1136	12.4	23.0	59.1	14.1	23075	67161	0.62	4.00	448	828	17.0	31.5	11.9	674	619	G.DMT Annex A	Alcatel	236/104	N/A	-17.3	-1.3	34.5	0

looking at the details from RouterStats, the noise margin was doing the following:

09.00pm - 09.45pm  : cycling between 12db and 6db
09.45pm - 22.35pm  : cycling between 8db and 2db
22.35pm - 23.05pm  : cycling between 13db to 4db
23.05pm                 : 1st drop
23.05pm - 01:00am  : cycling between 17db to ~6db
01.00am - 01:55am  : cycling between 12db to 5db
01.55am - 02:08am  : noise drops off to 0db
02.08am                 : 2nd drop
02.08am - 03.02am  : fluctuates between 21db and 6db in an increasing average
03.02am - now(8am) : cycling wildly between 30db and 4db

Thanks Nath

[Rik]

Hi Nath

It will be interesting to find out if IDNet saw the drops. Yesterday, I couldn't reconcile the router log with the disconnects they were seeing on every occasion.

[HavellN]

Hi Rik,

yep, hopefully they will be able to do something

also worth mentioning that the noise margin for upstream was a constant 17db except for during the connection drops

are the wide swings in noise margin normal?

ta,
Nath

[Rik]

They're much higher than I've seen since I switched to 2700s. With the Netgear, I saw 11db swings, now it's usually no more than 2db.

[HavellN]

further update:

router is in the test socket, noise margin is still all over the shop.  most of the failures seem to be Loss Of Frame errors.  I did try changing the "ATM PVC Search" option to disabled but the router didnt seem to want to connect when i did that, so i have put it back to Enabled.

didn't hear back from IDNet support with any update so guess i shall have to ring them tomorrow.

Nath

[Rik]

I wonder if James was waiting for you to tell him you still had a problem?

[HavellN]

Its a possibility, either way Ill give them/him a ring to see what the score is.  Do they work today?

[Rik]

Only for emergencies, eg loss of service.

[HavellN]

ok, tomorrow it is