Thinking of leaving - Can I pick your brains?

[slt76]

Hi folks

Was just wondering if someone in the know could have look at my stats. I am considering jumping ship as I could plump for an LLU ISP at my  exchange - do you think I'd see any significant gains in speed?

My  Stats Are

DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Downstream Rate Cap: 8128 kbps
Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 54.1 dB

DSL                Down        Up
Current Rate:  3520 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:       3520 kbs   956 kbs 

Current Connection:       DOWN        UP
Current Noise Margin:    5.0 dB        22.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:     54.2 dB      31.5 dB 
Current Output Power:  18.5 dBm    12.3 dBm 

Ring wire has been dissed at the master so I don't think an I plate will make any major improvements to what I have now. I'm 2.8 miles from the exchange as the crow flies so I guess that's anything up to 4 miles in terms of cable (My local exchange is Hardingstone - EMHARDI)

I have the following choices:

O2 / Be
Bulldog
TalkTalk
Orange

I would prefer to stay with IDNET as the customer service is fantastic; however my exchange has a 21CN date of June to Sept 09 which has changed loads of times so I am taking it with a pinch of salt. I would also be happier if IDNET would post some sort of costs for ADSL2+. If they were going to stick with the existing price structure or add a couple of quid then I may be tempted to wait. Currently though I could jump to O2 at a cheaper cost and hopefully gain some speed.

Any recommendations or comments would be welcomed. I know that many will think I'm mad and the wife keeps giving me "the you get what you pay for" routine after we escaped from British Terriblecom just over a year ago.

Cheers

Scott

[Simon]

I can't comment on the technical side, Scott, but of the four LLU ISPs you've listed, the only one I haven't heard bad reports about, is O2 / Be, so if you're going, I'd go with them.

Someone will be along soon to advise further. 

[ducky22]

Your sync rates will more than likely stay the same.

You will however gain speed in the respect that you won't stuck on a bras profile (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm). Maybe 300-500kbit/second improvement on actual downloads.

[Sebby]

Indeed. With an attenuation of 54dB, you're some way from the exchange, and unfortunately, ADSL2+ isn't so effective if your downstream attenuation is much over 30dB. However, as mentioned, the lack of profiles is always a benefit and should yield you some extra throughput.

[Lance]

I understand that idnet will be giving an update on adsl 2 packages and pricing once they have finished the tests and trials which begin shortly.

[David]

 My exchange has been enabled . For what its worth slt76 Simon is right the only one I have seen worth a look would be O2.Be careful for what and take your time....good luck whatever you decide

[talos]

Been there,done that, got the ulcer, DONT go with Orange, you have been warned    Good luck

[Rik]

I'd echo what the others have said, Scott. ADSL2+ will give you a small increase in speed, you'd probably sync at around 3870. Do you know when your exchange goes WBC (as distinct from 21CN)?

[slt76]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

O2 looks like it might be worth a shot and could also save a few quid - anyone heard any horror stories about them?

Rik - The 21CN WBC date is set for 30/09/09. Can't remember how many times it's changed though.......

I wish IDNET would give us a clue on pricing. Why does the trial need to complete? Surely that's a technical assessment whereas the pricing structure would be defined by the network costs etc (I'm probably talking rubbish on this and will wait to corrected).

[Rik]

I think the problem with pricing is that IDNet don't have a firm idea of how many people would be able to take up WBC. Once the trials are over, they'll have a better idea of how well it works, and how many people are likely to be interested. They have already said that no-one will be forced to move to it at this time, so they need some idea of whether people are likely to want to shift. In addition, other changes in the market mean that they need to revise all their packages, and I suspect they are trying to do the job in one hit.

[john]

I think Idnet may need to review their packages sooner rather than later. We know it's a quality product and probably worth the extra, especially if you need to contact support, but they look expensive compared to the larger players if one only looks at the bottom line price. Consequently they may have difficulty attracting new customers and even keeping many of the ones they already have.

[Rik]

I agree, John, and they are well aware of that. I think, though, that they wanted to get the network stable before doing much more. Hopefully, that's now the case.

[Sebby]

O2 looks like it might be worth a shot and could also save a few quid - anyone heard any horror stories about them?

O2 is a pretty good bet as far as LLU goes.

[Ann]

I did a bit of checking before I took the plunge and paid for another year with IDNet and others say that even 02/Be are very slow at peak times. 

[zappaDPJ]

I did a bit of checking before I took the plunge and paid for another year with IDNet and others say that even 02/Be are very slow at peak times. 

A lot of people recommend O₂/Be because of the LLU factor but having had 3 months experience of their network I'd be very cautious about using them. Be were good there is no doubt about that but as they became bigger they went down hill very fast. I had one good month when I first joined but after that my throughput started dropping in the evenings and my pings went up to ridiculous levels. During the day my pings were 25-35ms but in the evenings they would go up to as much as 10,000ms.

It took me two months to establish with them that their network had a capacity problem. Their overseas support facility is abysmal and all the platitudes posted by their management and support staff on their forums turned out to be nothing more than bare faced lies. They also had a nasty habit of banning users with problems from their forums, me included.

The worst part for me was after enduring an unusable connection for two months I finally established that the upgrades needed to improve their infrastructure would not be going ahead for many months.

Be were a good ISP but they got too big and greedy and didn't have the infrastructure to support their large user base. I personally would avoid them.

[David]

I did a bit of checking before I took the plunge and paid for another year with IDNet and others say that even 02/Be are very slow at peak times.

I think you did a wise move there Ann,as you say they can be slow at peak times and here you always have the option so I think you did the right thing

[Sebby]

Be were a good ISP but they got too big and greedy and didn't have the infrastructure to support their large user base. I personally would avoid them.

Like with IPStream ISPs, the exchange in question has a lot to it. Unlike someone like Orange, I don't think it's fair to say that all users experience those problems, but certainly they are not perfect, just like everyone else.

[davej99]

For me the key test in choosing an ISP is, can you get a one month contract? If not, I just would not bother moving, LLU or not.

For me low cost unlimited ISP's are like all-you-can-eat restaurants; either the service is awful or the queue is so far round the block you can't get fed. I had to fight like the devil to get out of a long contract with a mass provider that over-promised and under-delivered. Hidden capping, covert throttling, over-contention and dial-up speeds weren't written on the tin, and certainly not in the contract, but UP TO was.

I suggest the mass providers can't do IPstream reselling any where near as good as IDNET and that the LLU products are hit and miss; often OK to begin with before over-contention, limited exchange space, inadequate networks and laughable customer support rub off the shine.

However, this may or may not be true and my critique may be pessimistic. Therefore, if you can get the marketing glitz on a monthly contract in that greener field try it. If not, ask yourself why. 

[zappaDPJ]

Like with IPStream ISPs, the exchange in question has a lot to it. Unlike someone like Orange, I don't think it's fair to say that all users experience those problems, but certainly they are not perfect, just like everyone else.

I agree in general but at the time I left them I do know that all but one of around six or seven members of an organisation I belong to did the same. I think the issue of use comes into it as well. The majority of Be members that wanted fast throughput got it, my download speeds rarely fell below 12MB, but for those needing low latencies thing were different. They were good across the board at off-peak but come the evening they were measurable in seconds. I have no idea how many users were having these issues but it certainly wasn't a local phenomena which makes me think the heart of their infrastructure was lacking.

davej has hit the nail on the head for me. I would not tie myself into a yearly again. I'm still paying Pipex and Be for a service neither could provide even though I've been with IDNet for a few months. My priorities when choosing an ISP are now 1, a monthly contract and 2, a UK based support facility.

[Rik]

Something which echoes with the vast majority of us, Zappa.

[davej99]

.......  I'm still paying Pipex and Be for a service neither could provide even though I've been with IDNet for a few months. .......

Mass market ISPs seem content to tough out complaints and thumb their noses to the customer and Ofcom. It is shameful, Zappa that you have been hit twice. Fortunately, I secured a no penalty contract termination with one of the larger outfits through the ISPA. Members are obliged to respond immediately to complaints made through this channel. There is a process of escalation to an external adjudicator.

My complaint to the ISPA was that my ISP consistently failed to provide a viable broadband service; and having agreed the facts of the matter, failed to respond to a reasonable and justifiable request for a no charge cancellation. The next step was to be the small claims court, but fortunately, precedent was already set there by another. The cat was out of the bag and the ISP agreed a no penalty termination.  The key steps were getting the ISP to agree the facts first, by logging the problem times and speeds, and then using the ISPA to finish the job.