BBC hack 22,000 computers

[drummer]

...Deterrents work, it's a proven fact. All they need to be is strong enough. Viruses and hacks cause thousands of pounds worth of damage every day and aren't just the minor irritation that some will argue. They are serious crime, but the attempts to catch the culprits, and the penalties imposed, go nowhere close to matching the severity of that crime...

Care to share those "proven" facts?

I'm guessing you also believe the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" are working too.

To reiterate: your computer security is down to you alone, not the company that supplies the OS.

Unless of course you're one of those people who believe that when bad things happen, it's always someone elses fault.

To get back on topic though, it's incredible the lengths some people will go to in order to denigrate the BBC.

[Tacitus]

There are a growing number of MAC specific viruses ......

How many viruses have been reported for Macs?  Note I mean a self propagating virus which spreads without user interaction.

There have been recent reports of trojans and worms, but no reports of any *real* viruses.  The recent trojan which accompanied a copy of CS4 which people downloaded from the torrent sites required the user to give an Admin password in order to install it.  No operating system can protect against that.

Again I will say Apple is just as vulnrabnle to  attack weather this is through os vuln's (this will include vuln's reported in bsd, after all mac is built on it) or application vuln's. ...[...]  Another thing to take into consideration is Apple's low market share, if more used the more vuln's there would be.

Can't follow the logic here    The number of vulnerabilities in the OS doesn't increase whether there are more or less Macs in use.  The possibility of them being exploited may increase as the bad guys see more opportunities.  If you are using the market share argument OSX can't be just as vulnerable.

Personally I couldn't care less whether OSX is more secure because it is better designed (I happen to think it is), or because it flies under the radar because of a low market share.  Either way I get work done without the endless aggravation that seems to be the norm for many PC users. 

Works for me. 

[talos]

Looks like this thread is degenerating into the old Mac versus Pc debate again

[Tacitus]

Looks like this thread is degenerating into the old Mac versus Pc debate again

I know - in my original post I studiously avoided mentioning Macs, calling instead for a diversity of operating systems.  

[Den]

If there were ten shops on the high street and nine of them had 100 people through there doors each day and the other just one person, you would advertise in the nine and leave the other alone. The same applys to computers, if you are going to write a virus, write it for the computer that most people have and leave the other ones alone.
If you require protection pay for a decent one and don't expect to get the best for nothing as there is no such thing.  

[Rik]

I'm free. 

[Niall]

How would you know ? 
Do you know that for a fact?

Your point is a little odd considering I was saying that from the point that if I knew they would be. Obviously if I didn't know they wouldn't. As for your second comment, it's already been posted in here that accessing someone's system without permission is breaking the law, so if you go and do it anyway, you've broken the law, or am I missing something here?

[talos]

Your point is a little odd considering I was saying that from the point that if I knew they would be. Obviously if I didn't know they wouldn't.

Pardon

As for your second comment, it's already been posted in here that accessing someone's system without permission is breaking the law, so if you go and do it anyway, you've broken the law, or am I missing something here?

So thats a no then?

[Dopamine]

Care to share those "proven" facts?

I'm guessing you also believe the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" are working too.

To reiterate: your computer security is down to you alone, not the company that supplies the OS.

Unless of course you're one of those people who believe that when bad things happen, it's always someone elses fault.

To get back on topic though, it's incredible the lengths some people will go to in order to denigrate the BBC.

No, I believe the "war on drugs" and "war on terror" have been abject failures and will never work, and in fact am a vociferous objector to many of the government impositions placed on our freedoms in the name of the "war on terror". I also believe that computer security is not the responsibility of OS manufacturers. You've misinterpreted my post, or I didn't express it well.

As a service to society, everyone, I believe, has a duty to help where they can, whether that's stepping in and reprimanding a group of youths vandalising a bus shelter, or volunteering a small amount of time once in their lives to help the needy. Microsoft and Apple have sufficient wealth to be able to offer substantial rewards without any negligible effect on their profits or costs to consumers. That was my point; they could, and perhaps morally should, assist.

As for believing everything is someone else's fault... absolutely not. Personal responsibility is paramount, but blinkered approaches such as yours are stupid. Do you protect your own computers from threats, or do you use software developed by others to do it for you? Of course, you use software.

And when it comes to proven deterrents.. . Do you really need examples? Speed cameras? I assume you're more vigilant as a result. Who knowingly drives past a live speed camera at excess speed? Nobody that I know. Do you? Perhaps it would be easier if you gave examples of where sufficiently severe deterrents don't work.

[Den]

I'm free. 

Are you saying you use a free anti-virus to protect your computers Rik 

[Rik]

Not I, Den, I'm a fully paid-up NOD man.

[Den]

Thank the Lord for that 

[zappaDPJ]

How many viruses have been reported for Macs?  Note I mean a self propagating virus which spreads without user interaction.

There have been recent reports of trojans and worms, but no reports of any *real* viruses.  The recent trojan which accompanied a copy of CS4 which people downloaded from the torrent sites required the user to give an Admin password in order to install it.  No operating system can protect against that.

That's a very valid point, self propagating viruses are indeed a very rare occurrence on the Mac platform as they are extraordinary hard to create. Distributed infections such as malware and trojans are definitely on the increase though.

While on the subject of viruses, I still have somewhere an original copy of what I believe was the first computer virus (DOS) ever to be distributed. The distribution method was the Royal Mail and the payload if I recall correctly was a rather rude full screen message and number of corrupted .com files. It came with printed installation instructions on a floppy disk (when discs really were floppy) all nicely packaged in a cardboard envelope with a first class stamp! It purported to be a medical database and was sent out to NHS Planning & Information departments which is where I received it.

[Niall]

Pardon
So thats a no then?

How is that difficult to understand, and what on earth are you talking about with the no? That isn't even answering any questions asked, or are you answering a question in another post as I can't see what you're referring to?

[Sebby]

Well I for one am confused.

[talos]

How is that difficult to understand, and what on earth are you talking about with the no? That isn't even answering any questions asked, or are you answering a question in another post as I can't see what you're referring to?

[Tacitus]

That's a very valid point, self propagating viruses are indeed a very rare occurrence on the Mac platform as they are extraordinary hard to create.

Which suggests Macs are better designed to resist infections?   

Distributed infections such as malware and trojans are definitely on the increase though.

I agree, but when you look at these the vast majority require user interaction (= an admin password).  Not a lot you can do about social engineering apart from educate users.  One reason I always tell people to setup a user account rather than run as admin since it should stop most of these.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who saye they got this or that app either from a warez site or via torrents, totally blind to the risks.  I've even known Mac users who do it on the (stupid) assumption that Macs are bulletproof.  As those who got CS4 from a file sharing site discovered this is untrue....

No such thing as 100% security on any platform.

[drummer]

<some snipping for brevity>

As for believing everything is someone else's fault... absolutely not. Personal responsibility is paramount, but blinkered approaches such as yours are stupid. Do you protect your own computers from threats, or do you use software developed by others to do it for you? Of course, you use software.

Blinkered?  I'll let that pass because life's too short...

Of course I use a combination of commercial and free software to stop nasties getting through, and I constantly check that they're working and are regularly updated.  Not sure what point you're actually here making though.

And when it comes to proven deterrents.. . Do you really need examples? Speed cameras? I assume you're more vigilant as a result. Who knowingly drives past a live speed camera at excess speed? Nobody that I know. Do you? Perhaps it would be easier if you gave examples of where sufficiently severe deterrents don't work.

Some of us actually gave up our cars several years ago, so I have no idea about the deceptions of which you speak, but I'm assuming you're suggesting that breaking the law by speeding is okay when you can get away with it.

Nice.

Your original claim was that locking lots of people up for a long time is a realistic deterrent to those considering a life of crime which - if correct - would make the USA the crime-free centre of the world.

*stifles childish giggle*