Internet service and digital TV

[Moonshine]

Being somewhat antiquated with technology, I am probably one of the few people left still on analogue TV   Actually, I don't have a problem with this at all, but it seems the decision has been universally removed from personal choice, so it would appear I have no option but to move with the times 

Our digital switchover isn't until 2011, but I am now considering buying a Sky box, as I feel time is slipping by..... 

What I am keen to know, however, is whether having a Sky box installed, and a dish attached to the house, will have any adverse affect on my internet service.  I seem to recall having read on a few threads some time back that it can cause noise etc.  If I get a Sky box, is there anything I should be aware of in terms of internet service?

Alternatively, if we opted for a rooftop aerial, could that create problems with internet service???

Sorry for sounding so primitive, but.....I am!

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Rik]

You shouldn't have any problems with either system. Sky has the 'advantage' of a greater number of channels (but not necessarily programmes), high def if you want it, and the easiest personal video recorder I have used. The disadvantage is an ongoing monthly sub, from £16.50 upwards.

Freeview will give you less channels and, imo, slightly lower quality picture. Against that, you pay no subs.

Installation costs vary. A good aerial for Freeview will cost you £150-225, depending on where you live. Unless you change your TV, you will also need a set top box. Sky will cost you a box plus an installation fee. This varies but, atm, the hi def box is £49.99 with a £30 installation fee.

Where Sky can cause problems is with a noisy modem connected to the phone line. That said, while it's a contractual requirement to connect the box to the phone line for 12 months, Sky do not generally enforce it unless you have a multi-room installation.

[Sebby]

My feeling is that Sky is the way to go if you'll make use of the channels you pay for.

As long as the Sky box is filtered (or you can most likely leave it unplugged anyway) you shouldn't have any issues. If it does cause noise problems, there's always double filtering.

[Ann]

Are you sure you actually want the extra channels that you get with Sky?  I went the Freeview route.  Forty quid for a set top box and that's it.  The aerial is fine and didn't need upgrading.  Actually I tend to watch more TV on computer with my TV card which also has Freeview. 

[Den]

No mention on here of Freesat which is the cost of a box and fitting and nothing else to pay for lots of channels, picture quality is excellent as well.

Freeview will give you less channels and, imo, slightly lower quality picture. Against that, you pay no subs.

I disagree with you there Rik, I have both Sky and freeview and picture is about the same on either (assuming you have a decent aerial). I am fed up of paying Sky's' prices so I might go for Freesat just for the HD channels.   

[Rik]

I did say imo, Den. I base my comparison on viewing Freeview and Freesat directly on the Panasonic TV, plus Sky via an RGB feed. I would rank Freesat an easy 1, with little to choose between Freeview and Sky. Sky HD, via HDMI, should be better than Freeview.

In terms of use, I certainly feel the Sky EPG is better than Panasonic's attempt, either Freesat or Freeview.

[David]

I have both as well and find the picture quality on Sky is better although you could be right Den but on the other hand I can see the transmitter from my house so ariel isnt the issue.
Sky is in this area better quality...........................shame they broadcast the same tripe 

[Moonshine]

Looked at Sky web site.  You can get basic standard package incl. installation for £73 odd quid if you're a new Sky user.  Then you just cancel extra channels and contract once 3 months has passed, thereby you are not entering any contract and do not need to pay any monthly subscription.  Think that's the route I'll take, although I'm a bit miffed at having to supply Sky with my land line number (when I don't even want additional channels!) and my d.o.b (which I only usually give to my bank!!!).  Jeez, do they want my shoe size as well?!

[Rik]

No, just your bank details.

[David]

Yep they do....you may ned to have your phone connected to them for a while as well ,I took mine out but they did call a few times,but once out of cntract you can take the phone line out.
I think you made the right choice at this time....but the future will or may change this  

[JB]

On thing to remember about paying a high price for a high gain aerial for Freeview at present.

When the existing analogue channels are switched off the power output of the existing Freeview channels will be increased 10 fold due to the extra transmitter capacity available and the newer channels will be the same. The new MUX frequencies will be set to be largely compatible with present regional aerials bandwidth. In theory that means that the majority of existing serviceable UHF TV aerials should work OK. If you are receiving a poor Freeview signal at present it might save the pennies to stay with analogue until switch over in your area.

That could save you paying what is IMO an exorbitant cost for a fitter to install a 'high gain' aerial.

[Rik]

Good tip, JB. Though, technically, we can't get  Freeview at all, according to the website, with a high-gain aerial and a masthead amp, we have the full range of channels with excellent quality. I just didn't want to wait.

[JB]

I just didn't want to wait.

Fully appreciate that Rik and many folk will be the same.

I am lucky that I can see Winter Hill from the roof of my home in Cheshire so a simple 10 element (el cheapo) aerial gives full strength on Freeview. However, I am tempted by Freesat as I have an old dish and LNB kicking around. Will need to check what extra channels are available.

I had $ky once in the analogue days but have never been able to justify the cost in the digital years.

[talos]

My pennyworth---
                                  G0 with freeview and a digital disk recorder (PVR) cheaper and less hassle than SKY,  no contracts and they wont want to know your shoe size or what you had for dinner and programming a PVR is as easy as the Sky plus box and with twin tuners so you can watch one channel while you record another just like in the old VHS video days. If you are getting a good picture on analogue now, you probably wont need a new aerial.

[Rik]

However, I am tempted by Freesat as I have an old dish and LNB kicking around. Will need to check what extra channels are available.

BBC HD and ITV HD, to name but two.

[JB]

BBC HD and ITV HD, to name but two.

Thanks Rik. Will I need a certain type of satellite receiver to be able to receive/view HD? Sorry if this is quite a basic question but I am kinda out of touch with HD and all that stuff. I have a fairly modern Samsung LCD 32" TV which I hope will work OK. Sorry can't check the model number as I'm not there atm.

[merlin]

SEBBY ,whats "double filtering" and how is it done

[Rik]

Two filters in series, Bob, plug one filter into the other, plug the phone etc into the 'socket end' of that chain, plug the BT plug into the wall socket.

[Rik]

Thanks Rik. Will I need a certain type of satellite receiver to be able to receive/view HD? Sorry if this is quite a basic question but I am kinda out of touch with HD and all that stuff. I have a fairly modern Samsung LCD 32" TV which I hope will work OK. Sorry can't check the model number as I'm not there atm.

You'd need one capable of supporting HD, JB. In my case, it's built in to the TV.

[Sebby]

SEBBY ,whats "double filtering" and how is it done

Sorry, I should have been more clear, but I see Rik has answered now anyway.

[merlin]

thx RIK SEBBY ,i tried that some time ago to reduce line noise but it did'nt seem to have any effect.

[Rik]

It only works if the filters aren't doing their job, Bob. If the filter is good, it should have no impact. The theory of double filtering is that if your filter is 90% efficient, ie letting 10% of ADSL through to voice (or vice versa), then a second filter in line should reduce that to 1%. At least, that's the theory.

[D-Dan]

Before I add my two penneth, can I ask a question?

What's "TV"?

Steve

[Rik]

The code for Transylvania airport?

[vitriol]

Rik,

If I were to try double filtering do I plug the phone into the first filter and the router into the second or vice versa?

[Rik]

Phone into the second filter, Vit, the router can only go in the first as the second filter will have had the ADSL signal removed already.

[vitriol]

I'll give it a try since I've got a few filters lying around.

[Moonshine]

Once upon a time......in the dark, melancholy days of analogue......for many years in Milton Keynes, one wasn't allowed to erect an aerial on one's rooftop. This was even specified in home-owner's deeds to their properties, as some kind of covenant.  The good people of MK suffered mercilessly at the hands of the city's (debatable??!!) officials, who clearly did not do battle with their consciences over such a petty issue. 

Basically, the officials in the 'new city' of MK didn't want the pretty (also debatable) rooftops of its houses looking ugly with unsightly aerials, and so there seemed to be a blanket rule that these were not allowed (in new properties, at any rate).  The good citizens of MK therefore had no option but to pay monthly fees to receive standard terrestrial TV reception to an organisation which was once known as 'Milton Keynes Cable', provided via underground cable.  This organisation then became NTL, who are now owned by Virgin Media.  I believe English Partnerships have since relaxed the rooftop aerial rule (well, they haven't got much choice anymore, have they?!), and many a house has since been spotted with such paraphernalia these days.

However, since the good ole days, whereby nobody had any choice here, I find I am still currently paying Virgin Media a monthly fee (albeit, it's only just under £4.00 pm) for a Standard Cable Pack, meaning I can watch analogue TV, and receive the usual terrestrial channels (I guess this would be the case up to digital switchover, at any rate).  Oddly enough, I can't seem to find this 'Standard Cable Pack' advertised anywhere at Virgin Media.  Could this be that it is an isolated package just for the privilege of Milton Keynes's residents?  Moreover, I have no idea what will happen come the digital switchover, i.e whether Virgin Media will still take £4.00 pm from my (and other residents in similar situations) accounts for providing us with the basic channels, or whether they will increase their fees and provide more channels, or whether the 'Standard Cable Pack' for £4.00 simply won't exist anymore, meaning such antiquated folk like myself who choose to live in the past have to uptake a different package altogether with Virgin Media. 

Having telephoned Virgin Media on a numer of occasions, and unfortunately having the disadvantage of getting through to Indian call centres, I gave up any hope of finding the answer to my questions.  The staff (for obvious reasons) had no idea about the 'Standard Cable Pack', and why residents such as myself have been paying it for as long as I can recall.  Heck, they think MK is a borough of London!  They don't understand the old MK lack of rooftop aerial syndrome, and did not appreciate my waning humour about concrete cows and roundabouts.

Rik, I am wondering that since I recall that you live in/near MK also, you probably know the answer to this.....do you know what will happen to those people who will continue to pay the Virgin Media monthly fee for the 'Standard Cable Pack' right up until the digital switchover??  Will they still be able to receive TV reception via Virgin Media, and will this basic service continue?  I have an elderly neighbour who also pays this £4.00 pm for this service, and it would be nice if I could put her mind at rest also.

Personally, I have decided to go with Sky, and get 4 months free then cancel prior to the end of then to avoid a monthly subscription.  However, I wondered whether it was worth me contiuing to pay the £4.00 pm to Virgin Media in addition to Sky - i.e in case there's ever a problem with the Sky signal, and also to receive the Hallmark Channel (okay, I like watching Monk!!) which Sky do not seem to transmit.  Is it okay to run the two together (Sky and Virgin Media) - are they compatible??! 

Sorry for my ignorance and naivety, but Virgin Media are about as useful as a Robin Reliant, and no-one else I've spoken to seems to know otherwise.

And they all lived happily ever after.......

The End.

[Rik]

Hi Moonshine

I stopped paying the fee to VM long ago, when they were still NTL, and I still have the service, though I don't actually use it. I do know that they have switched some of the channels to satellite or Freeview sourcing, probably the former, and my guess is that they will convert the rest and the service will trundle on. I've long since had a Sky dish, and now a terrestrial aerial too - the covenant is, as you say, no longer enforced.

[Moonshine]

Thanks Rik.

Oh well, it may be that I can cancel my Virgin Media sub after all....especially if they don't bother to switch me off.

I wonder whether they actually bother to individually switch people off that have cancelled, or whether they wait until a number of people in the same area need to be switched off.  I would think switching off just one customer is more costly for them than it's worth???

[Rik]

The switch off requires a physical visit to the property to disconnect the cable, so I doubt they generally bother unless a particular segment has no paying customers on it. They may even, of course, be contractually required to provide the service.

[g7pkf]

don't forget get a friend  to recommend you to sky and you both get £50 of

M&S vouchers.

if your short of friends i would be happy to recommend you (wifes birthday soon)

[Moonshine]

Interesting, Rik.  I will be cancelling VM now as soon as the Sky dish etc has been installed!!  Even at £4 pm, that's still too much if you can get the same for free.

don't forget get a friend  to recommend you to sky and you both get £50 of

M&S vouchers.

if your short of friends i would be happy to recommend you (wifes birthday soon)

Funny that!  Someone else mentioned that to me yesterday, and I got my viewing card through today accompanied by a leaflet re: introducing a friend.  Bit late though, I think, since I've already ordered.  Besides, the leaflet doesn't say anything about the package I've bought - it just mentions contract packages.  I reckon Sky would not honour the "Pay Once, Watch Forever" package.

By the way.....what exactly is the viewing card for?   Is Sky not operational without it, or is it just for extra films etc that you have to pay for?  And does it ever expire???  Thanks.

[Rik]

The viewing card stores information on what channels you have access to, and is part of the decryption system. For your box to work fully, the card has to be paired to it. Sky replace the cards every 3-5 years, it's free of charge, and there is a replacement cycle running at the moment.