A 2Wire Dual SSID BT2700HGV BT Business Hub

[Rik]

Ah, you've moved to shorts have you?

[Sebby]

Only in the summer.

[Rik]

I just knew that was coming.

[Sebby]

[LesD]

Tut tut, all completely off topic in a technical thread! 

[Sebby]

Surely you wouldn't expect anything less.

[LesD]

Surely you wouldn't expect anything less.

I guess not. 

[LesD]

Here I am at 7:40 PM with the noise margin still at its initial target value of 15 dB after 18 days with a perfectly stable connection.
Maybe it's time to ask IDNET to see if they can get BT to drop the noise margin manually by 3 dB to 12 dB as I think this would enable me to get my IP Profile up from the present value of 2500 kbps to 3000 kbps. What say you guys?
Details follow below:

System Time: Saturday, May 30, 2009
06:39:06 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 18  days  02: 30: 41
               
DSL                                Down    Up
Current Rate:              3392 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:                   3392 kbs   1056 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:    15.0 dB    25.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:      41.4 dB    27.0 dB 
Current Output Power:  19.0 dBm   11.9 dBm 



    Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3392 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2339 kbps

[Rik]

It's got to be worth asking, Les. The only reason I can see for it still staying at 15db is if the error count is high.

[LesD]

It's got to be worth asking, Les. The only reason I can see for it still staying at 15db is if the error count is high.

Is this what you are referring to Rik?

ATM           Cells  Errors  %
Transmit:  2570319  0  0
Receive:  9919409  0  0

IP            Bytes  Packets     Errors  %
Transmit:  23568131  117883  0  0
Receive:  108080256  153461  0  0

or maybe this?

Broadband Link – Detailed DSL StatisticsCollected for 18 days 2:51:28

ATM  Since Reset  Current 24-Hour Interval  Current 15-Minute Interval  Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors:  19404  2645  2  0:00:43
Loss of Cell Delineation:  4308  40  2  0:00:43

DSL
Link Retrains:  0  0  0  0:00:00
DSL Training Errors:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Training Timeouts:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Signal Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Power Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors:  9422  454  1  0:00:43
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors:  118  26  0  1:07:09
Corrected Blocks:  163350  10676  19  0:00:13
Uncorrectable Blocks:  22013  3605  2  0:00:43
DSL Unavailable Seconds:  44  0  0  18 days 2:50:43

It looks OK to me but I am sorry to say that the format goes haywire when pasted in here.

[Rik]

It's OK, Les, they all do that. It looks fine to me too. Talk to support on Monday.

[Lance]

I take it you've tried a reboot (or on the 2700 you can just do a retrain)?

[LesD]

I take it you've tried a reboot (or on the 2700 you can just do a retrain)?

I haven't rebooted in the last 19 days but when I tried after the first 17 or so days I ended up with a lower sync and the same noise margin that you see prevailing now. I know it needs a reboot to get a new target noise margin but it is the doubt that I harbour that it will with the accompanying risk of an even lower sync! I don't know if or how you can retrain a 2700 maybe Alan will. 

If I could get back to 12 dB target noise margin my instinct is that I would be able to get the 3000 kbps IP Profile I used to enjoy.

I filled out a "Contact Us" form in the "my account" area last evening pointing them to posts #57 to #60 in this thread so I shall wait and see what that brings forth.

[kinmel]

I haven't rebooted in the last 19 days but when I tried after the first 17 or so days I ended up with a lower sync and the same noise margin that you see prevailing now. I know it needs a reboot to get a new target noise margin but it is the doubt that I harbour that it will with the accompanying risk of an even lower sync! I don't know if or how you can retrain a 2700 maybe Alan will. 

Install Routerstats Lite and keep it running minimized when you PC is on, your current SNR is displayed in the minimised icon and when it at it's highest value of the day do a DSL connection reset. This will set you connection to the highest possible sync for your target margin.

With your stats i would ask Idnet to have the target SNR reset to 6dB

[LesD]

Thanks for the advice Alan.

The problem I would have with a 6 dB target noise margin is that the 15 dB that I see during most of the daylight hours drop to 9 or 10 dB after dark so the 6 dB could quite easily become 0 dB after dark.

Its 8:22 PM and right now I still have 15 dB. I will try and remember to look again at about 10:30 PM when I am all but certain that the number will be significantly lower.

[kinmel]

Thanks for the advice Alan.

The problem I would have with a 6 dB target noise margin is that the 15 dB that I see during most of the daylight hours drop to 9 or 10 dB after dark so the 6 dB could quite easily become 0 dB after dark.

Its 8:22 PM and right now I still have 15 dB. I will try and remember to look again at about 10:30 PM when I am all but certain that the number will be significantly lower.

the 2700 gives my line a 1.5meg gain over other routers, I am currently sync'd at 4704 at an attenuation of 59.7.  My SNR is about 7 during the day and drops below 3 at night, yet the 2700 hangs in there and has held on at that since 4th May. Use RouterStats to try to get a sync rate just above an IP Profile change point ie above 3424, 4000, or 4544, don't aim for the very highest possible.

[LesD]

Maybe I was just unlucky but last year when my noise margin first went up from 12 db to 15 db and seemed to get stuck there I asked IDNet Support if they could get BT to unstick it and we agreed to ask for 9 dB. This was OK for a few days and I did get my 3000 kbps IP Profile back but it was short lived and soon went back up again to 15 dB.

The odd thing was that the jump back up was a daytime event not during the hours of darkness when things are more fragile.

[Lance]

The best time for a resync is in the morning as noise should be at its lowest then. To retrain the line without rebooting the router, go to here: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J02&THISPAGE=A02_POST&NEXTPAGE=J02 and reset broadband link.

[Rik]

The odd thing was that the jump back up was a daytime event not during the hours of darkness when things are more fragile.

Probably triggered by the error count, Les.

[LesD]

Brian at IDNET has got BT to reduce my target noise margin to 9 dB.

BT told Brian that my noise margin fluctuates. This is no surprise to me as I am well aware from my own observations of my line statistics that the noise margin is mainly predictable, namely 15 dB during daylight dropping through 12 dB at the onset of dusk  to 9 dB after darkness arrives.

I shall leave the reboot until the weekend because the time I have found that I often get the best sync speed is mid morning on a Sunday.
After that I shall wait and see how things go but rest assured I will keep the forum posted! 

[LesD]

I shall leave the reboot until the weekend because the time I have found that I often get the best sync speed is mid morning on a Sunday.
After that I shall wait and see how things go but rest assured I will keep the forum posted!  

Well now I am completely gob smacked and will need this explaining to me by someone wiser than me in these matters!  

Having made my previous post I went and took a look at my Router Stats and saw this:

DSL                       Down  Up
Current Rate:                4608 kbs   448 kbs  
Max Rate:                    4608 kbs   1052 kbs  
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:       7.0 dB   25.0 dB  
Current Attenuation:       41.6 dB   27.0 dB  
Current Output Power:  19.6 dBm   11.9 dBm

I immediately though the routers been and gone and rebooted of its own accord and that usually spells out some sort of trouble but no look at the extract from the System Summary below because this shows that it has been up and connected for over 21 days.

System Time: Tuesday, June 2, 2009
09:37:43 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 21  days  05: 29: 19

How can this be?

The plus for the time being is that this is about the best connection rate I have ever seen on my line!  
It is still dusk, however, and not properly dark yet so the downside is that the target noise margin of 9 dB is already down to 7 dB.
The question is how low will it go and will the 2700 hang on to the line?

This extract from the router's DSL Diagnostics below shows that the resync occurred without a reboot.

Downstream  
Time Line  Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1  3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0
2009/06/02 21:47:02 BST 1  4608 4624 3540 3540 9.1 7.0 41.6 19.6  

I have been digging and delving and down in the Event Log I have found this:

INF  2009-05-30T18:35:45+01:00  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2009-05-31T20:22:01+01:00  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2009-06-01T13:21:42+01:00  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2009-06-02T21:37:33+01:00  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page

So it appears that at 1:21 PM yesterday the connection went down and came back without a reboot.
Does this make sense because no one was in at that time so no PC's were on only the router?

[Steve]

Not sure I  quite understand! Les but surely your router can resync without requiring a reboot, you can't do it manually on say a Netgear by changing from LLU based to VC based. If you have the DGTeam firmware on a Netgear you can manually resync the adsl connection without rebooting the router.

[LesD]

Not sure I quite understand! Les but surely your router can resync without requiring a reboot, you can't do it manually on say a Netgear by changing from LLU based to VC based. If you have the DGTeam firmware on a Netgear you can manually resync the adsl connection without rebooting the router.

Yes thanks for that Steve. I understand that you can force the 2700 to reconnect without a reboot from what Lance and others told me a few post back but can the router do it on its own or maybe it was something at the exchange end? I guess that's a possibility. I have asked Brian at IDNET Support if he can explain what has been going on so I will see what that brings tomorrow.

It's almost 10:30 PM now and pretty much dark with the street lights on and I still have the 5 dB shown below so  the 2700 will hang onto the line overnight.

DSL                          Down          Up
Current Rate:             4608 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:                  4608 kbs   1052 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:     5.0 dB   25.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:     41.6 dB   27.0 dB 
Current Output Power:  19.5 dBm   11.9 dBm

[Steve]

I think BT "forced" your router to renegotiate with the local exchange when they dropped your default margin on the DSLAM. Hopefully it will hang on over night.

[Rik]

I agree, Steve, I've seen it happen to my line when BT increased the target NM.