A 2Wire Dual SSID BT2700HGV BT Business Hub

[Sebby]

Yep, that's what it sounds like.

[LesD]

Brian from Support took a look at Post #70 and recommended that I plug the router into the BT test socket direct and see if the noise margin still drops as darkness falls but I have been there and done that a year or so ago and it made no difference then so I am pretty sure it won't now. Since I am not inclined to break my setup down (two PC's to disconnect KVI switch and all etc) to do this test again I guess things have run there course with Support.

Alas my high connection rate was not to be. 

At one minute past two this afternoon the connection went down and reconnected. No one was in so my house was electrially quiet:

INF  2009-06-02T21:37:33+01:00  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2009-06-03T14:01:38+01:00  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2009-06-03T21:29:28+01:00  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page

After the reconnection I was back where I started before my target noise margin was reduced to 9 dB.
I did suspect as much, which was why I asked for 12 dB but such is life. This is what I see this evening:

DSL                           Down        Up
Current Rate:             3392 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:                  3392 kbs   1052 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:    13.0 dB   25.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:     41.7 dB   27.0 dB 
Current Output Power:  19.0 dBm   11.9 dBm 

ATM  Cells  Errors  %
Transmit:  3456384  0  0
Receive:  27406344  0  0

It is dusk again so I see 13 dB but at DSL Diagnostics I can see that target is currently 14.9 dB back up from the 9 dB that I had very briefly after BT reset it.

Last evening little adventure shows just what might have been possible but it was not to be. 

[kinmel]

Have a look at the routerstat log for 14.00 and see what the SNR and sync were just before the disconnect and in the router check  your error rate today. 

If there is nothing apparent in your stats, ask for the target to be reset again, mine took 4 resets in a month before it settled down.

[LesD]

Have a look at the routerstat log for 14.00 and see what the SNR and sync were just before the disconnect and in the router check  your error rate today. 

I am not sure where it is that you are referring to Alan.

I see Noise Margin in DSL Diagnostics here:

Downstream 
Time Line  Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs INP DLY  Rate Max Mgn Attn Pwr CRCs FECs 
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1  3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0 24391 174462
2009/06/03 14:01:39 BST 1  4608 4624 4020 4020 9.1 9.0 41.6 19.6 4453 965315
2009/06/03 22:39:57 BST 1  3392 3400 2372 2372 14.9 12.0 41.7 18.8 247 2450

And here I can see the "Link Retrains" about 8-3/4 hours ago that fits with the 14:01 event in the extract from the Event log in my previous post.

ATM  Since Reset  Current 24-Hour Interval  Current 15-Minute Interval  Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors:  25661  207  1  0:03:42
Loss of Cell Delineation:  6070  29  1  0:03:42

DSL
Link Retrains:  2  0  0  8:42:26
DSL Training Errors:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Training Timeouts:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures:  4  0  0  8:42:27
Loss of Signal Failures:  4  0  0  8:42:27
Loss of Power Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures:  4  0  0  8:42:27
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors:  12596  152  1  0:03:42
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors:  182  0  0  8:42:27
Corrected Blocks:  1142252  2216  31  0:00:09
Uncorrectable Blocks:  29092  227  1  0:03:42
DSL Unavailable Seconds:  97  0  0  8:42:03

but I cannot see an option called routerstat log.

The Advanced Detailed Log contains this:

INF  2009-06-03T14:01:38+01:00  lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN  2009-06-03T14:01:39+01:00  lmd:  qos0: admin_gen: unable to lookup clfy netdev pvc0: No such file or directory
WRN  2009-06-03T14:01:39+01:00  lmd:  Previous log entry repeated 31 times
WRN  2009-06-03T14:01:40+01:00  vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF  2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00  lmd:  dsl0: up G.DMT Annex A interleaved Rate:3392/448 Max:3392/1052
INF  2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00  lmd:  dsl0: Margin:15.0/25.0 Atten:41.7/27.0 Power:19.1/11.9
INF  2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00  lmd:  dsl0: Country: {F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0}
WRN  2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00  lmd:  qos0: admin_gen: unable to lookup clfy netdev pvc0: No such file or directory
WRN  2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00  lmd:  Previous log entry repeated 31 times

Namely the figures after the reconnect but I can't see any number for just before it! 

I sense that unless I go through the hastle of repeating the BT Test Socket procedure again Support won't want to bother BT again.

[kinmel]

When you run RouterStats Lite you have the option to automatically save the graphs as files and that allows you to look back and see what your SNR and sync rate were at any time.

If logging is not already enabled, start RouterStats Lite, select the "Setup" tab and then the "Capture" Tab, tick all three  boxes on that page and the data is then repeatedly captured to the directory specified.

[MisterW]

If there is nothing apparent in your stats, ask for the target to be reset again, mine took 4 resets in a month before it settled down.

I would agree with that!. It looks like the DSLAM has just reverted back to a 15db target, it shouldnt do that, if it thought the error count was too high it should at least have tried going from 9 to 12 first!!

Anyway looking at your stats there seems no reason for the resynch at 14:01 other than the DSLAM reverted to 15db. At the time of the resynch the margin was 9.0db ( as shown in Mgn2 ) and the CRC count was 4453 which is not that high!! OK, so the corrected errors are a bit high but if it tripped on that it should have tried 12db...

[Rik]

I wonder where the DLM software remembers the previous target NM setting and, if the error count is high or there is instability, it flips straight back to it?

[LesD]

Having read and digested what you say folks I have asked IDNet Support if my target noise margin can be reduced again.
that they will humour me once more.

[LesD]

Having read and digested what you say folks I have asked IDNet Support if my target noise margin can be reduced again.
that they will humour me once more.

Even with my  it was a no go. 

This is the reply I have received from support:

Hi Les,
>
> The margin may have changed if the line is unable to support a higher
> speed reliably. The service is dynamic and designed to be able to change
> the speed in order to try and maintain a stable connection. Whilst
> speaking with BT they confirmed the margin had been fluctuating and were
> of the opinion the margin would not remain at the level they had set it
> at, this was a difficult task in itself to get them to make this manual
> change as it has not remained at that level they will not make the
> changes a second time. Changing the margin a number of times will not
> make the margin settle at any given level.
>

[Rik]

Sorry, Les. I'm not surprised.

[LesD]

Sorry, Les. I'm not surprised.

I must say neither am I but I still wonder if a target of 12 dB had been set whether that would have been sustainable because it was for months on end this time last year but I guess we will never know now. 

[Rik]

Give it a while and try asking nicely again.

[Sebby]

I'm also not surprised. I had exactly the same thing; the exchange would not maintain a 6db margin, despite it being stable. In the end I was able to get a manual 9dB margin set.

[LesD]

OK my Senior Moments seem to be turning into Senior Periods    as I have eventually realised that RouterStats is the program I played with back in February and had forgotten all about and not some page I couldn't find in the 2700!

So now that sanity has returned I have RouterStats the program reconfigured and running again.  
(I think it had to be configured again as a result of swapping to the Dual SSID 2700)
The log file is enabled and below is an extract from what it is currently being logged:

Thu 04 Jun 2009  21:35:56, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009  21:36:16, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009  21:36:36, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009  21:36:56, Rx-Noise=13, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009  21:37:16, Rx-Noise=13, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,

(Note the fall from what I saw was 15 dB at 9 PM through 14 dB to 13 dB as dusk falls)

I have the transmit attenuation in the right hand column labelled TxAtten and it shows this correctly on my User Defined Graph but gets it wrong in the Log. Ah Well.

To obtain the maximum advantage from this program I guess my PC needs to be on 24/7 and it is normally switched off overnight and when I am out at work. The Router stays on 24/7 but I am less inclined to leave the PC on when I am not around.  

Maybe I will reconsider this and leave it on over the weekend.

[Rik]

Try and run it for 24 hours if you can, Les, just shut the monitor down. It will give the most complete picture, but a 2db drop is nothing to worry about. What would be really interesting is to see the error count at the lower margin compared to the higher one. My line was throwing  1,000,000 errors a day at 6db, but that dropped to ~15,000/day at 9db. It was the error count, in my case, which caused DLM to lift the target.

[LesD]

Try and run it for 24 hours if you can, Les, just shut the monitor down. It will give the most complete picture, but a 2db drop is nothing to worry about. What would be really interesting is to see the error count at the lower margin compared to the higher one. My line was throwing  1,000,000 errors a day at 6db, but that dropped to ~15,000/day at 9db. It was the error count, in my case, which caused DLM to lift the target.

I look in the router for the error count I take it or can that be made to show in RouterStats too?
This is what I see right now at 8:10 AM 6/6/9:

DSL  Down  Up
Current Rate:  3392 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:  3392 kbs   1052 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:  15.0 dB   25.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:  41.7 dB   27.0 dB 
Current Output Power:  19.0 dBm   11.9 dBm 

ATM  Cells  Errors  %
Transmit:  3678039  0  0
Receive:  27898810  0  0

IP  Bytes  Packets  Errors  %
Transmit:  56755281  481850  0  0
Receive:  950085569  811605  0  0


ATM  Since Reset  Current 24-Hour Interval  Current 15-Minute Interval  Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors:  27432  343  2  0:00:33
Loss of Cell Delineation:  6727  51  0  0:07:22

DSL
Link Retrains:  2  0  0  2 days 18:11:01
DSL Training Errors:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Training Timeouts:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures:  4  0  0  2 days 18:11:02
Loss of Signal Failures:  4  0  0  2 days 18:11:02
Loss of Power Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures:  4  0  0  2 days 18:11:02
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors:  13596  256  2  0:00:33
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors:  193  0  0  23:10:15
Corrected Blocks:  1154894  3355  26  0:00:05
Uncorrectable Blocks:  31023  397  2  0:00:33
DSL Unavailable Seconds:  97  0  0  2 days 18:10:38

                                       Downstream
Time Line                           Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1  3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0 24391 174462
2009/06/03 14:01:39 BST 1  4608 4624 4020 4020 9.1 9.0 41.6 19.6 4453 965315
2009/06/06 08:14:30 BST 1  3392 3400 2684 2684 14.9 15.0 41.7 19.0 2179 15118

Maybe it was the FECs at 965315 that scuppered the 9 dB which coupled with what you say makes me hanker after the 12 dB I wanted all along! 

[Rik]

RouterStats can't show the error count, Les. My line was moved from 6-9db to reduce the error count, and it had an immediate impact, dropping them from ~1M/day to 15k/day.

[LesD]

RouterStats can't show the error count, Les. My line was moved from 6-9db to reduce the error count, and it had an immediate impact, dropping them from ~1M/day to 15k/day.

The "Get Page" I have at Configuration at the "Router Search Text" tab is this one:

http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B02&THISPAGE=B04&NEXTPAGE=B02

and there are no "Errors" to pick from on it! 

I am running: RouterStats 4.8

[Rik]

You want:

http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B04&THISPAGE=B02&NEXTPAGE=B04

Les, at least on my 2700.

[LesD]

You want:

http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B04&THISPAGE=B02&NEXTPAGE=B04

Les, at least on my 2700.

Yes the page you give includes the errors OK with my 2700 too but if I use it as the login and then "Get Page" I can see and pick errors to Graph and Log but the Noise Margins, Sync Rates etc disappear!

I put the page I was previously using back and the Noise Margins, Sync Rates etc reappear.
One or the other it seems for me. Is this par for the course?

[Rik]

It is, Les.

[LesD]

I have at last today managed to sync at 3424 kbps 

DSL                            Down        Up
Current Rate:               3424 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:                   3424 kbs   1048 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:    14.0 dB     25.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:     41.8 dB     27.0 dB 
Current Output Power:  19.0 dBm   11.9 dBm

I have had Router Stats running and tried a number of times when it has looked like there has been plenty of Noise Margin headroom but never managed the elusive 3424 kpbs until this afternoon.

If I can hang on to it for three days or so I just might get my 3000 kbps IP Profile back where it used to be. Good old BT eh! 

[Sebby]

It's all part of the IP profile game, Les.

Wouldn't it be nice to not have to check sync everyday to ensure we don't drop a profile? BT's system really is rubbish.

[LesD]

It's all part of the IP profile game, Les.

Wouldn't it be nice to not have to check sync everyday to ensure we don't drop a profile? BT's system really is rubbish.

It's their way to throttle throughput when they are not even your ISP in my opinion. It has to be another for BT.

[LesD]

See my signature! 

I have finally got my 3000 kpbs IP Profile back but for how long it remains to be seen, especially with the ominous threat of thunder and lighting hanging over us again!