Problem with computer

bobleslie · Apr 20, 2009, 18:58:44

Gordon. I can see how your premise works, and indeed is necessary, for mainframe hardware whose life cycle is counted in years.

Consumer computer and other consumer hardware life cycles are counted in months. Totally impossible for MS to keep up with all the changes.

Actually, MS has been criticised for providing too much backward compatibility, which (it is argued) has led to a lack of advancement in OS design.

Rik · Apr 20, 2009, 19:03:49

That's true, Bob, it took ages to get 32-bit apps and as long again for 64-bit apps.

bobleslie · Apr 20, 2009, 19:05:56

And they all need special drivers.

Rik · Apr 20, 2009, 19:08:33

Which manufacturers are not rushing to provide. Progress can be incredibly slow when the Microsoft ship of state wants to change course.

bobleslie · Apr 20, 2009, 19:14:18

That was certainly true at the January 2007 launch of Vista.

However, it only took me a couple of weeks to sort out the driver issues.

greenfedora · Apr 20, 2009, 20:48:45

Guys, you make fair points but the ultimate issue is this: as a user I have suffered severely at the hands of Windows Vista. I had two machines running XP for years with hardly an issue. I have daily issues with Vista (and I really do mean daily).

The only thing that changed was the upgrade to Vista, which I felt was forced upon me after Microsoft's threats to withdraw support for XP.

I don't actually care who blames whom for the problems - I want a stable platform on which I can run my business like I used to have under XP.

If the hardware suppliers were cutting corners, then they need roasting over hot coals. So do Microsoft if they fail to provide adequate backward compatibility to cover my software, which is all less than 2 years old (most of it younger), or if they are arrogantly thinking that their OS is 'king' and dictates rates of change in terms of forcing software and hardware drivers to be rewritten to run on it. I suspect it's a bit of both.

For me, as a user, trying to run a business, Vista has proven to be wholly unsatisfactory and - whether drivers are responsible or not - I will be avoiding Microsoft in future and moving to either Linux or Apple. I would think that's an issue Microsoft would want to address. How they do so is their business but I know I'm not the only person who has been turned away from MS by Vista.

Contrast that with my CentOS servers. I take upgrades as soon as they're in production releases and I update software in a similar manner, yet uptime is still at least 99.9%. I know servers are a different beast altogether, but the disparity is extraordinary.

Ann · Apr 20, 2009, 20:55:11

Interesting thread. My computer.. desktop XP wouldn't start this morning either. After a hard reset and cold boot it did start but it was heart in mouth time for a short while there.

bobleslie · Apr 20, 2009, 21:28:59

Well, Gordon, you confirm my long-held belief that the people who have the most problems with Vista and seem unable to (ever) solve them are Linux Administrators or Apple users!

Seriously, though, you cannot sensibly compare a desktop OS such as Vista with a server OS based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

I'm surprised you haven't already switched to Red Hat as your desktop. As for Apple, save your money.

Sebby · Apr 20, 2009, 22:26:56

Vista is a troubled OS, hence the reason MS are rushing out Windows 7 so quickly (plus the fact that they're losing market share to Apple, and thus far their only response has been some adverts that highlight how expensive Macs are!).

greenfedora · Apr 20, 2009, 22:30:10

Quote from: bobleslie on Apr 20, 2009, 21:28:59
Well, Gordon, you confirm my long-held belief that the people who have the most problems with Vista and seem unable to (ever) solve them are Linux Administrators or Apple users!

LOL. Alas you are mistaken this time. I was a mainframe sysprog in the 80's, a Windows C/C++ software engineer in the 90's, but these days I'm just a Windows 'user' who can 'dabble' in Linux sysadmin enough to keep a couple of web servers running.

Quote
Seriously, though, you cannot sensibly compare a desktop OS such as Vista with a server OS based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

Maybe not (and I did qualify that), but what I can do is compare XP, which was a stable OS that seemed to signify a certain maturity in terms of Windows, with Vista which seems to be a step backwards. As a desktop user, I can't think of anything it's added to my productivity.

In a way that's okay. It should just be an OS, largely ignored, doing a job of interfacing between hardware and software, but - for me at least - it's brought a load of hassle. I will grant you it improved with SP1 and a lot of my problems disappeared after installing that but - frankly - I don't care. I want a stable system and Windows seems to be going backwards in that respect so I'll try elsewhere.

Ultimately I may not succeed - perhaps I'm stuck in the 80's and too used to the reliability of mainframes - but I can try alternatives and see what happens.

Is there any reason one shouldn't look for something better than Windows? Even if one has to keep a partition for Windows in something like Parallels for those hard-to-do-without applications, one can still opt for a different OS for the crux of the work.

I will admit I don't know many people who've made the move from Windows to Apple but the one or two I do know have not regretted it.

Simon · Apr 20, 2009, 22:53:50

Quote from: greenfedora on Apr 20, 2009, 22:30:10
I will admit I don't know many people who've made the move from Windows to Apple but the one or two I do know have not regretted it.

Maybe more people would make the move, if Apple wasn't so damned expensive? I do like the look of a Mac, but the cost is too prohibitive, especially when you have to factor in buying Mac versions of your Windows software as well.

greenfedora · Apr 20, 2009, 23:00:05

Quote from: Simon on Apr 20, 2009, 22:53:50
Maybe more people would make the move, if Apple wasn't so damned expensive?

True, it is expensive.

Quote
I do like the look of a Mac, but the cost is too prohibitive, especially when you have to factor in buying Mac versions of your Windows software as well.

That wouldn't be too expensive for me as I use OpenOffice and Thunderbird for documents and email. The only problematic one would be my web programming IDE (PHPEd) which I would either have to replace with a Mac-compatible IDE or run Windows in a Parallels partition just for that.

Simon · Apr 20, 2009, 23:28:08

I have to use MS Office, as I find Open Office just isn't quite compatible enough for what I need. I use Sea Monkey, as a browser and email, so that would be OK, but then I use stuff like Adobe Audition, Sony Soundforge, Photoshop, Nero, and a few others, all of which are not cheap, and I'm used to, so wouldn't really want to have to look for alternatives.

Rik · Apr 21, 2009, 09:09:58

Plus there is no better photo editing software than Photoshop.

bobleslie · Apr 21, 2009, 11:56:47

Quote from: greenfedora on Apr 20, 2009, 22:30:10
LOL. Alas you are mistaken this time. I was a mainframe sysprog in the 80's, a Windows C/C++ software engineer in the 90's, but these days I'm just a Windows 'user' who can 'dabble' in Linux sysadmin enough to keep a couple of web servers running.

Actually, Gordon you are exactly the sort of techno-nut I had in mind!

There's not much reason for anyone to ~~upgrade~~ downgrade to Vista from XP if only looking for productivity gains.

Vista is a modern multimedia OS and the jewel in its crown, if indeed there is one, is an improved Windows Media Center. If you don't need that then by all means save yourself the trouble.

Even if you need WMC you can still get it with Windows media Center 2005 which can (optionally) float above an updated Windows XP Professional. It's just *slightly* less easy to install WMC than on Vista.

I'm surprised you haven't gone back to XP in the circumstances.

greenfedora · Apr 21, 2009, 12:15:03

Quote from: bobleslie on Apr 21, 2009, 11:56:47
I'm surprised you haven't gone back to XP in the circumstances.

I felt upgrading was prudent in light of Microsoft's threats to withdraw support for XP. Although shortly after I upgraded they extended the support lifetime of XP again.

Anyway, I'll go for a proper operating system next time - something that doesn't feel like it was spewed forth by a team of loons after a crack party.

You see if I don't.

So there.

Rik · Apr 21, 2009, 12:17:40

So that's going to be another Mac user, eh Gordon?

greenfedora · Apr 21, 2009, 12:26:36

Quote from: Rik on Apr 21, 2009, 12:17:40
So that's going to be another Mac user, eh Gordon?

It's likely. If I can find a Linux version that will run effectively on my laptop I might try that too.

bobleslie · Apr 21, 2009, 12:41:51

Give PCLinuxOS a try. It gets auto-updated regularly, and it even runs Spotify in Wine.

So it might even run your WebApp thingy.

greenfedora · Apr 21, 2009, 13:17:21

After all this arguing about how pants Windows is, I have forgotten to post the solution to the 0x000000F4 problem I had, so ...

Installing all 7 updates at once failed every time (or at least it did the 3 times I tried it), but installing the updates one-by-one with a reboot after each one proved successful.

There must have been some contention between them, or it was possibly all down to the transperambulation of pseudo-cosmic antimatter. I really don't know but they're in now and it only cost me about one day's salary (which is worth about 3p in this recession).

Sebby · Apr 21, 2009, 13:23:29

Quote from: greenfedora on Apr 20, 2009, 22:30:10
I will admit I don't know many people who've made the move from Windows to Apple but the one or two I do know have not regretted it.

I'm one of those and I certainly don't regret it; quite the opposite in fact.

Quote from: Simon on Apr 20, 2009, 22:53:50
Maybe more people would make the move, if Apple wasn't so damned expensive? I do like the look of a Mac, but the cost is too prohibitive, especially when you have to factor in buying Mac versions of your Windows software as well.

Absolutely. But what I would say is they are worth the money once you've spent it and realise what you got for the money, if that makes sense! Buying new software can be expensive, but we're the ones that chose Windows in the first place, so if we want to switch, it's just one of those things. Office can actually be had for not much money at all, incidentally.

bobleslie · Apr 21, 2009, 14:51:53

Now you'll have someone to talk to about all that Apple goodness.

Sebby · Apr 21, 2009, 23:10:04

Steve · Apr 22, 2009, 21:18:35

I visited the Apple store in Cambridge today I can honestly say that I had a very pleasant shopping experience, they were extremely helpful and knowledgeable. I was so impressed I had to buy one (thank goodness my wife is still a card carrying member of a local educational institution.) They were even kind enough to carry my purchase back to the car park ,it is a shame they didn't pay for the ticket.

Bye bye MS!!

Simon · Apr 22, 2009, 23:30:37

Do let us know how you get on, Steve.