Need some advice concerning Socket Wiring

[Ninny]

Hi,
      I recently moved to IDnet having been thoroughly annoyed with British Telecom's appalling service and customer support. For months my internet connection was running at 0.1mbs and was basically useless, calling BT up would get you put onto some people in India who don't know anything reading from a script who would tell you to turn things off and on again etc. I'm pleased to say my connection has gone up to 2mbs since moving to IDnet, once it managed to go up to 2.5mbs, but it should be able to get 3.5 and maybe even up to 4.5 - but the line is very unstable and overnight it has dropped down to 0.5mbs a few times. Also the line disconnects at random times, and when someone is on the telephone it won't connect at all. This even happens when everything is plugged into the test socket.

When I pick up the telephone sometimes there is a great deal of interference which I am presuming is the cause, it sounds like someone is trying to tune a radio or something. Had an engineer round who knew nothing about broadband and basically did a quiet line test and said all was well - when I asked about it probably needing rewiring he fobbed it off.

I tried re-wiring the socket a while back but unfortunately I may not have done a good job of it and can't remember the original configuration. The socket is the detachable faceplate type - however the wiring seems to be an old type that I can't get any help online for how to wire - there are 4 wires, orange and blue = which go to the A & B pins. The other two wires are brown and green which are currently disconnected, I'm wondering if these are causing the problem? I have 6 free IDF connectors and don't know which these two wires connect to, if they are needed at all. We don't have any extensions in the house so I am only dealing with one master socket here, with the filter going directly into it. The router is an old etec PT-8411G, here are the router stats should they be of any use, Thanks:

ADSL Statistics      
   
   Mode    G.dmt
      
   Latency    Interleave
      
   Trellis Coding    Enable
      
   Status    SHOWTIME.
      
   Power Level    L0
      
            
      Downstream    Upstream    
   SNR Margin (dB)    15.6    17.0    
   Attenuation (dB)    50.5    31.5    
   Output Power (dBm)    18.5    10.0    
   Attainable Rate (Kbps)    3924    956    
   Rate (Kbps)    3360    448    
   K (number of bytes in DMT frame)    106    15    
   R (number of check bytes in RS code word)    16    16    
   S (RS code word size in DMT frame)    2.00    8.00    
   D (interleaver depth)    16    4    
   Delay (msec)    8.00    8.00    
   FEC    749    0    
   CRC    11    0    
   Total ES    7    0    
   Total SES    0    0    
   Total UAS    0    0    
   
   
       

[Rik]

Hi Ninny and welcome to the forum.

The setup you describe is normal, the dropwire (the incoming exchange line) doesn't use the normal coding, and there's nothing you can do to change what colours are in use, they are hard-wired at a cabinet or pole junction. If you'd done anything wrong, the line would simply not work. Check the quiet line test for yourself by dialling 17070 and selecting option 2. You may hear a gentle background hiss or hum, depending on the type of phone you have, but that should be all.

Your noise margin is high, which suggests there has been instability on the line, given the other symptoms you describe, the first thing you need to do is try an alternative filter.

[Gary]

Hi Ninny have a  As Rik suggests try a different filter, if possible a filtered faceplate is the best option but if you have another filter lying around try that, also make sure you use cat 5 cables where possible, not the flat cord, that's hopeless and prone to interference, also make sure you do not have any electrical wiring near the filter and cabling that goes to your router, if you have that could potentially cause issues. Try the new filter out, if it works I would recommend an adslnation faceplate they are not expensive and work very well. Also look into the thread on the 2 Wire 2700's on the forum, they are great routers for long unstable lines and have worked wonders for others. 

[Simon]

Hi Ninny,

I can't help any further, but you're in good hands already, so all I can say is...   

[Sebby]

Is it an NTE5 master socket (the type with a removable lower half)? If it is, have you tried the test socket behind the faceplate? This eliminates all extensions and might help to determine whether it's an internal or external problem.

Perhaps you could post some pictures of the socket/wiring? It would be useful to see as I'm not 100% on the setup at the moment.

[Ted]

Sounds like the old kind of faceplate (whole front comes off). If the incoming pair are connected to A & B and it works then as Rik says it is wired correctly. However there is a possibility that the pair are reversed. It should still work but may give problems with certain equipment.

The BT Drop Cable
(The cable coming from the outside world)

This often has Orange, White, Green and Black wires.  Usually (but not always) Orange and White are the active pair and go to connections 2 and 5 in the master socket.  In some master boxes (such as the type with a removable front section) they go to two connectors marked A and B.

Which way round they are connected usually doesn't matter but some modems (especially older USA sourced ones) and some answering machines are fussy about polarity, so it's wise if possible to check the voltage on the line and connect -48V to the B leg (5) and 0V to the A leg (2) in the master socket.

you'll need a multimeter to check the polarity but they can be had quite cheaply.

Edit:
Actually this must be a new type NTE5 box and not the old LJU2 box, they didn't have A&B terminals just idc ones. Its been a while!

[Rik]

Thanks, Ted. 

[Ninny]

Hello, and thanks for your comments.

Yes, the bottom half of the faceplate is removable. As I said we have no extensions in the house, so other than the wired A & B connectors (blue and orange) - do I need either of the two surplus wires (brown and green) to go to any of the IDC connectors? I will try switching the A & B around and see if that helps.

I have 3 filters and changing them doesn't seem to help, sometimes when I try the quiet line test the interference is incredibly loud - I'll  try replacing the phone and maybe buying a filtered faceplate. These noisy line tests were done THROUGH the test socket, but when I tried through the faceplate socket it seemed to quieten the noise a bit. But as it seems random when I get interference I'm wondering if it's something in/near the house that gets turned on sometimes and causes it, or the weather or something.

Cheers!

[Rik]

Hi Ninny

The two spare wires should not be connected to anything, just tuck them out of the way.

Do you have a battery-powered AM radio? If you do, de-tune it so that all you have is white noise and try running that along the path of the phone and router cable as far as is practical. That will detect any external noise source local to the cables. Failing that, if the quiet line test is noisy with another phone, try it again with the router powered down and unplugged. If it then stops, and you're confident in your filters, it would be worth trying a different router.

[Gary]

If you have noise when you do a quiet line test I would say to BT if thats your provider you are having voice issues (do not mention adsl) they may be able to look again it could be a bad joint with water leaking in or a problem at the exchange, if you mention its effecting your internet you could be in for a nasty £160 charge if they dont find a fault, I think its your line and possible interference as well, but I would get the voice side of things looked at as that will effect your adsl anyway.

Or what Rik Said 

[Sebby]

Hello, and thanks for your comments.

Yes, the bottom half of the faceplate is removable. As I said we have no extensions in the house, so other than the wired A & B connectors (blue and orange) - do I need either of the two surplus wires (brown and green) to go to any of the IDC connectors? I will try switching the A & B around and see if that helps.

I have 3 filters and changing them doesn't seem to help, sometimes when I try the quiet line test the interference is incredibly loud - I'll  try replacing the phone and maybe buying a filtered faceplate. These noisy line tests were done THROUGH the test socket, but when I tried through the faceplate socket it seemed to quieten the noise a bit. But as it seems random when I get interference I'm wondering if it's something in/near the house that gets turned on sometimes and causes it, or the weather or something.

Cheers!

Hi Ninny. Firstly, I must just point out that we as consumers are not supposed to mess with what is connected to A and B. You can remove the lower faceplate, but not the back part.

Anyhow, there should be one wire connect to A and one to B. The cable that comes into the property is likely to have other wires, but these can be disregarded. If there are other wires in the socket connected to the lower half plate that you remove, this is the extension wiring, and really you only need terminals 2 and 5 connected. The same goes for all the other extensions in your property.

As you have an NTE5, you have a test socket and can prove whether the problem is internal or external. When you remove the lower plate, there is a socket behind it - this is the test socket. It might be useful to try your phone/router in there and see if you still experience the same problems.

[Ted]

Hi Ninny. Firstly, I must just point out that we as consumers are not supposed to mess with what is connected to A and B. You can remove the lower faceplate, but not the back part.

You're correct there Sebby, but as there are only two wires connected (A&B) and Ninny has already tried to rewire the socket i'm assuming it was these terminals he rewired. It may be that the pair are reversed, especially as he can't remember the original configuration.
Its easy to check with a meter.

[g7pkf]

For info.

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

all to do with salt in spit or something, All i know is it works and saves getting meter out etc.

[Rik]

Just hope no-one rings at that moment.

[Ted]

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

I think you should let us be the judge of that Dean! 

[Rik]

[Baz]

For info.

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

is that similar to when you put a battery on your tongue 

[Rik]

Basically, yes, Baz.

[Sebby]

For info.

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

all to do with salt in spit or something, All i know is it works and saves getting meter out etc.

I'd love to see a BT engineer do it like that.

[Rik]

They test it on the customers.

[Sebby]

[g7pkf]

I'd love to see a BT engineer do it like that.

Older BT engineers know the trick well the young uns don't know it.

although i have shown a few who were quite impressed with the speed, (they like anything that speeds the job up).

used to be a much bigger thing to get a and b right as you used to have an earth stake o/s property and that was connected as well. Now broadband can be funny about it as well. what goes around comes around.

[Ninny]

Thanks for your tips. Ok, so I don't think the internal wiring is the problem. But today my speed and ping has gone to pot yet again.



This whole time I've been plugged into the test socket as well. The BT Speedtest now says my IP profile is 135kbs, the router showed I was synced at around that speed, but after restarting I'm now synced at 3,345 kbs but my speed has yet to improve.

The phone is also getting really bad intereference again, the only thing I can think of is this seems to happen during or after it has been windy, could this be the cause? Might there be some sort of line fault that is agitated by a bit of a gust, and can BT get this fixed? This is seriously getting on my nerves now as I am a gamer and this sort of trouble is really not good when you're playing a quakelive duel!

[Rik]

Your profile will take up to five days to recover, Ninny, but hopefully a lot less for that speed difference.

If the phone is bad, all you can do is keep hammering at BT. It's highly likely that there's a line fault, possibly the cable rubbing against trees, so it's a matter of moaning every time the fault is present (keeping a log is a good idea too).

[Sebby]

I agree with Rik. Since you're having trouble in the test socket, it suggests an external problem. It's just convincing BT of that.

[Ninny]

My speed and ping have been awful for the last 3 - 4 days now, it sped back up by late Thursday night, but by Friday the syncspeed had gone rubbish again and since I've been on a 135k IP profile even though the sync has been over 3,000 since. The phone intereference is really bad but I only get it for a while every 2 - 3 days, but it means every other night my speed drops to nothing for the next week and I can't put up with it any more. Most of the time it takes most of the day for the speed to pick back up but I really can't wait days and days for an improvement that might not happen and will likely go back to useless by the next morning.

This is getting incredibly annoying for me as I've been having this kind of problem for months now and I haven't got a TV so I watch stuff online - so this means I've had nothing to watch most of the week time and time again.

I've realised that I don't think it's a weather problem, the phone noise ONLY happens when the router is switched on. Therefore I think it's either a problem with the router itself - an E-tec 8411G, or more likely a problem at the exchange? As before I was on idnet I was using a BT Homehub and was getting the same appalling speeds. Please give me some advice on what I might be able to do, as I really am getting upset by this constantly happening.

Every time I run the BT speedtester I just get this, and no improvement in my Profile:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3360 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 124 kbps

[Glenn]

From the what you have described above, it sounds like a filter issue to me, have you replace the filters in the house with something like ADSL Nation filters? Does the router run directly off the mains circuit in the house, if so, ideally run it via a UPS failing that try a surge protected extension lead. Is it possible to plug the it into another wall socket, ideally on a different ring main in the house.

Can you borrow another router to try from a friend/colleague? I know you have said it was the same same with the BT home hub, so changing router may not help, but it isworth a shot.

[Gary]

My speed and ping have been awful for the last 3 - 4 days now, it sped back up by late Thursday night, but by Friday the syncspeed had gone rubbish again and since I've been on a 135k IP profile even though the sync has been over 3,000 since. The phone intereference is really bad but I only get it for a while every 2 - 3 days, but it means every other night my speed drops to nothing for the next week and I can't put up with it any more. Most of the time it takes most of the day for the speed to pick back up but I really can't wait days and days for an improvement that might not happen and will likely go back to useless by the next morning.

This is getting incredibly annoying for me as I've been having this kind of problem for months now and I haven't got a TV so I watch stuff online - so this means I've had nothing to watch most of the week time and time again.

I've realised that I don't think it's a weather problem, the phone noise ONLY happens when the router is switched on. Therefore I think it's either a problem with the router itself - an E-tec 8411G, or more likely a problem at the exchange? As before I was on idnet I was using a BT Homehub and was getting the same appalling speeds. Please give me some advice on what I might be able to do, as I really am getting upset by this constantly happening.

Every time I run the BT speedtester I just get this, and no improvement in my Profile:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3360 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 124 kbps

I would give support a call support tomorrow tbh, they can have a look at your line from their end, after that if they think its a good idea call your service provider and and say you have a really noisy line for voice calls and do NOT mention ADSL at all. They will send BT out to take a look that way if its voice issues, if you say its ADSL they will sting you with a £160 call out fee if they find nothing wrong. They may swap you over at the exchange by doing a 'lift and shift' so you are on a different pair, that can take time depending on how many free pairs there are. Do try another router as well though as Glenn suggested. Maybe plug it into a different socket in your home as well, just in case there is a problem with the electrical outlet itself.

Is there a pattern to this noise? Have you got any industrial units near you? Or even a fridge kicking in that could provide interference. Ideally you want to have noise at the test socket on a corded phone, not a cordless when doing the quiet line test as well. Rik, or Sebby or Glenn will help, but check your own internal wiring to your router, make sure its cat5 not flat ribbon as that's prone to interference, write out the time of days this happens to establish a pattern, it may help you diagnose the issue, and it may help support to see if their is a pattern to it as well also its good for BT to see. I know its a pain but to get BT to do something on the voice side is probably the only way you may improve your ADSL, unless its something obvious IDNet can sort out.

[Glenn]

http://www.anomalousaperture.com/2008/08/a-simple-telephone-line-quality-test-for-adsl-uk-only/ has details on how to test your line for noise

[Ninny]

Thanks for your thoughts. I did have a BT engineer around a few weeks ago, and as the interference wasn't happening at the time he came he just did a quiet line test, said all was well and left. We dont not have any cordless phones in the house, or industrial eqipment. The interference seems to be at its strongest in the morning and in the evening, but just there are days when there is no noise then it just appears very loudly all of a sudden. I have 3 filters - cheap ones that came with the BT modem and a chunkier one that came with the Homehub and these have no effect.

I've had the router in different power sockets, and in different parts of the house, connected using different cables - one of which is a cat5, and the interference was still there. Other than normal house equipment, a fridge, microwave, thermostat which are nearby I don't know what could be doing it. Though living in close proximity to other bungalows who knows what the neighbours have - the guy next door runs a taxi service so who knows? If the interference comes back I'll try turning everything else in the house off and see what happens.

I thought about getting a new router - but I don't think that's the problem, but the only decent one available in the local shop is the Netgear DG834G, would that be a good choice? They don't sell any ADSL faceplates but I might try buying a more expensive filter as well.

However - I'm thinking it's probably something at the exchange - but I will keep my eyes peeled for anything else.

[Steve]

 Others have flashed the home hub for use with another isp

  http://irj.sefier.com/?p=28

[Glenn]

The interference seems to be at its strongest in the morning and in the evening, but just there are days when there is no noise then it just appears very loudly all of a sudden.

Though living in close proximity to other bungalows who knows what the neighbours have - the guy next door runs a taxi service so who knows?

Technology Overview

The vast majority of copper local loops only carry analogue voice signals over a very narrow band of audio frequencies and until recently the major digitalisation of TO networks has had very little impact on them. When TOs expanded their network in the past, hundreds of subscriber loops were bundled together as multi-paired cables. These were usually buried in the ground or, in remote locations, hung on distribution poles. Many have been in place for decades and carry a complex mix of direct and alternating current, audio tones, dialling pulses and voice signals. They pick up interference from many external sources such as noise from overhead power-lines, arcing electrical machinery, and private mobile radio (PMR) transmissions as used by taxi operators. These cables are also very poor transmission lines and suffer problems such as high-frequency attenuation, signal reflections from the terminations (resulting in echo), excessive signal delay, signal distortion, and crosstalk . Longer cables can consist of several sections of different gauge wire and can contain isolating and noise neutralising transformers. All of which reduce the cable's ability to carry wide band data.

http://www.gare.co.uk/technology_watch/copper.htm

It maybe your neighbour that is causing the problem if the above article is correct.

[Ninny]

Flashing the Home Hub is a good idea but unfortunately mine is a black 2.0 model which I don't think is compatible with that tool.

Also the guy next door does run a taxi but he may only use a mobile to carry out his operation, will have to investigate it further.

[Gary]

You can get adsl faceplates from here Ninny http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php its a great faceplate and does help. The 2700 routers that have their own part of the forum here are great for bad lines, you can get them cheaply from ebay, I'm sure someone would help you with one of these and how to set them up, they make  great difference on long lines.

Does the noise coincide with the street lights? If the Taxi driver is working for a company he will have a radio and that will cause interference, how long are these bursts though? Is he into amateur radio perhaps? These are things to checkout.

[Rik]

Like Glenn, I suspect a filter problem, but if it proves not to be that, it may be that getting the SFI team involved is the way forward, Ninny. However, you need to be absolutely certain it's not your wiring/equipment before going there as it would prove expensive if it was.

[Gary]

Like Glenn, I suspect a filter problem, but if it proves not to be that, it may be that getting the SFI team involved is the way forward, Ninny. However, you need to be absolutely certain it's not your wiring/equipment before going there as it would prove expensive if it was.

I think he tried three different filters already, Rik.

[Rik]

Though we don't know the quality, Gary. I'd like to see an ADSL Nation used, if the problem persists then it isn't the filter, even though the symptoms are typical of a failed or poor filter.

[Glenn]

It's not a router issue either as far as I can see, as the line was the same when Ninny was with BT, using a home hub. So it's something at the exchange, interference picked up along the line from the exchange or internal wiring, both comms &/or power I would think.

[Gary]

Though we don't know the quality, Gary. I'd like to see an ADSL Nation used, if the problem persists then it isn't the filter, even though the symptoms are typical of a failed or poor filter.

I agree Rik, some filters are awful, especially the ones from PC World, the Excelsus Z-blocker ones are ok, but if the ADSL Nation fails then we will know for sure, If Ninny gets an ADSL Nation faceplate then that would be the best bet I think, mines been rock solid since I bought it two years ago now, and it made a difference stability wise compared with the cheap ones that most people get packed in with their some modems and routers. Its a odd one for sure.

[Rik]

Ninny needs to use something like an ADSL Nation filter just to prove it's not his equipment before involving BT. It's a shame the fault isn't permanent, it would speed up the testing process.

[Gary]

It's not a router issue either as far as I can see, as the line was the same when Ninny was with BT, using a home hub. So it's something at the exchange, interference picked up along the line from the exchange or internal wiring, both comms &/or power I would think.

I'm wondering if there is a connection block somewhere, I live in a Bungalow but my BT line is underground, some in our close are via poles though and ten you have a small connection box as it enters your property, they can get corroded, our one in our last house was in the kitchen where the cable entered and got a lot of moisture in it from cooking etc, BT replaced that and it helped a bit, we just suffered from the noise of overhead street lighting at night there after that.

[Gary]

Ninny needs to use something like an ADSL Nation filter just to prove it's not his equipment before involving BT. It's a shame the fault isn't permanent, it would speed up the testing process.

The fact that its in the morning and evening is suspicious as that's when street lighting is on, and turning off, or industrial units in the area are firing up and shutting down. It does seem like interference externally, I have an ADSL Nation soap on a roap type lying around somewhere I think, I'll see if I can dig it out then he can try it. I'll PM him if I find it.

[Glenn]

That's a nice offer Gary, thanks, it should save Ninny a few pounds just to test the line.

[Sebby]

To me, this sounds like an external line issue, but I agree that a quality filter should be tried before taking it further.

[Gary]

That's a nice offer Gary, thanks, it should save Ninny a few pounds just to test the line.

Well I can't find it, but I do have a brand new BT Filtered faceplate he could have, they are pretty good. I'll pm him anyway as that should sort the issue out as I know it works fine if its just a filter.

[Ninny]

I'd like to thank Gary for his kind offer.

But I think I will delay taking him up on it for a few days at least. Yesterday I followed some previous advice of wiring the A + B points using the expectoration method, I had tried it a few days earlier but didn't see any 'fizzle'. Though this time I did find the blue wire made some very slight bubbling so I hooked this to the A pin and t'other to the B. Since doing this I haven't heard any interference, but it's early days yet. The interference does disappear for a few days before turning up again.

Assuming this may have been the problem, is the only reason I'm still getting terrible speeds is due to BT's IP profiling? If you look at the BT Speedtester results I pasted earlier my Profile is set to 135kbs but I actually received 124kbs during the test, so would that indicate if I'm being capped that I'm not even achieving the roof level anyway? So even with my sync speed being over 3,000 I'm not even receiving the maximum 135k rate.

When it's sank to this rate before my Profile recovers within a day, but this has been like this for around 4 days now with no improvement. Do I need to phone Idnet to get them to tell BT to raise my IP profile manually?

[Rik]

The profile will recover in BT's timeframe, Ninny. Sometimes, IDNet can get it kicked, often BT insist on the system being allowed to manage it. If you've had more disconnections, and the re-wiring may have been seen as one, then it can take up to 5 days.

You'll never achieve the full profile as throughput due to the overheads attached to the transmission. You lose about 10% for that.

[Ninny]

Ok, Rik. But this is a truly dreadful system, just a simple disconnection can mean you're basically without internet for a week! And for people like me who rely heavily on it for multimedia - TV and games etc, it means a week of staring at the walls of a night! Though thankfully it's barely fast enough to read some websites/e-books!

I really hope if the IP Profile recovers I don't find the rate has sunk again by the morning.. If so I will take Gary up on his kind offer and probably try and find one of these 2-wire routers.

[Rik]

It is a dreadful system, instigated by BT for their convenience. There's no technical reason for profiles, but they save computing power at BT Towers, so we are lumbered with them.

[Sebby]

Dreadful is an understatement. It can be so frustrating at times when your sync improves but you're limited by the profile. That said, yours should raise more quickly as you currently have such a low profile. More here.

[Gary]

I'd like to thank Gary for his kind offer.

But I think I will delay taking him up on it for a few days at least. Yesterday I followed some previous advice of wiring the A + B points using the expectoration method, I had tried it a few days earlier but didn't see any 'fizzle'. Though this time I did find the blue wire made some very slight bubbling so I hooked this to the A pin and t'other to the B. Since doing this I haven't heard any interference, but it's early days yet. The interference does disappear for a few days before turning up again.

Assuming this may have been the problem, is the only reason I'm still getting terrible speeds is due to BT's IP profiling? If you look at the BT Speedtester results I pasted earlier my Profile is set to 135kbs but I actually received 124kbs during the test, so would that indicate if I'm being capped that I'm not even achieving the roof level anyway? So even with my sync speed being over 3,000 I'm not even receiving the maximum 135k rate.

When it's sank to this rate before my Profile recovers within a day, but this has been like this for around 4 days now with no improvement. Do I need to phone Idnet to get them to tell BT to raise my IP profile manually?

Thanks Ninny, if you need it give me a PM 

[pup]

.... earth stake o/s property and that was connected as well......... what goes around comes around.

don't you mean what goes around goes to ground 

[Rik]

[Ninny]

Ok, I spoke to IDnet customer support this morning and they managed to get my IP profile reset. Great work gang!

After a few hours I rebooted my router which synced around 3,600k and on the BT speedtester my profile had jumped from 135k to 2,500k. Marvelous.

My connection can obviously handle more but I'm happy with 2,500 as being usable for my needs, however.. only a few hours later someone was on the phone and when I checked my sync my rate had dropped to around 448k!!!! I quickly turned my router off until the call was done and then rebooted it and I have synced back at 2816k which is a margin lower but I was praying my IP profile hadn't reverted back as well, thankfully it hasn't as of yet.

If my connection is dropping while someone is on the phone is this a line issue or filter issue, anybody know? Because I can't help people making phone calls... but if my Profile drops to 135k again.. I'm buying a gun!

[Rik]

It could be the phone, filter or line, Ninny, an HR fault can, for example, cause that behaviour. All you can do is to eliminate any possible issues with your own equipment and then get BT involved, via IDNet.

[gingerjedi]

I've had the exact same problem for years now, I've posted on here several times as some may remember.

I've tried: re-wiring, 3 different routers, several filters (including ADSLNation), shielded RJ11 cable all to no avail.

It just pops up and plays havoc for a few days and then goes away again, I've had IDNET and BT on the case but neither could fix it. I've heard people say it could be a high resistance joint anywhere between the exchange and me but I'm powerless to get anyone to check this out,

I'd love to know if Ninny found a fix?

[Ninny]

I would try opening up the socket and swapping the A and B wires around, as it seems when they are in the correct way I get a line drop every time someone phones, and also interference. Yet when they are wired up seemingly the wrong way - the higher voltage wire on B rather than A - it seems to make the line much more stable. I've only had a week or so of playing around with this so I can't say it's a definate fix - it might be a faulty joint on the line like you say - but the interference hasn't been back so far - but that may just be coincidence!

[gingerjedi]

I've only had a week or so of playing around with this so I can't say it's a definate fix - it might be a faulty joint on the line like you say - but the interference hasn't been back so far - but that may just be coincidence!

I hear you there, I've thought it's been fixed on numerous occasions only for it to re-appear months later.

I'll try the wire swap, when it drops do you hear the ADSL router trying to reconnect? I've got a Netgear DG834GT and I can hear digital noise when it tries to connect after a dropout, unplugging the router from the phone system removes the noise altogether.  BTW I'm on the Home2000 fixed 2meg service as it seems a little more stable than ADSLMAX, I want to try MAX again but I'm afraid it will be worse.

[Rik]

I can hear digital noise when it tries to connect after a dropout, unplugging the router from the phone system removes the noise altogether.

That's a classic description of a faulty filter, Ginger. Have you ever tried a different router in your quest?

[gingerjedi]

That's a classic description of a faulty filter, Ginger. Have you ever tried a different router in your quest?

You would thinks so wouldn't you but I have ADSLNation filters and I've tried 3 different routers, the Belkin one didn't make as much noise but it still dropped, I reverted to the Netgear as it's much easier to see whats going on with routerstats.

Like I said I have the exact same fault as Ninny and he (I'm guessing he) has tried the same fixes, I reckon it's the line between my house and the pole but there's no way BT will replace that as it's not a voice fault, I guess I'll be waiting a few years for them to drop fibre down the drains.

I agree that somehow the filter isn't seperating the signal, but I don't know why? Tried 2 filters inline as well, could my line be shared with someone else somehow??

[Rik]

The line couldn't be shared, ADSL wouldn't work at all. The only thing I can think of is something like an HR fault, obscure but troublesome at ADSL frequencies. Switching polarity at the back of the master socket, technically illegal, might be worth a try.

[Ninny]

Yes, touching those wires is illegal so I was just writing some telephony related fan fiction out of sheer boredom. So if you did happen to switch the wires around - which of course you shouldn't - don't let me know how you get on via PM or anything, ok?

[Rik]

 

[gingerjedi]

I don't believe it, I got home and found a card on my doormat explaining how BT are going to replace all the cables and poles in our road over the next couple of weeks.   

[Lance]

Here's hoping they do a good job! 

[Sebby]

I don't believe it, I got home and found a card on my doormat explaining how BT are going to replace all the cables and poles in our road over the next couple of weeks.   

Excellent! I can't imagine the day when we'll see that.

[Ted]

I don't believe it, I got home and found a card on my doormat explaining how BT are going to replace all the cables and poles in our road over the next couple of weeks.   

Ah! But did they say what they were going to replace them with?

[Sebby]

Good point. Could be string.

[Ted]

Good point. Could be string.

Hope they make it nice and damp!

[Sebby]

It's a bank holiday weekend don't forget. I'm sure nature will take care of that.

[Lance]

I'm sure string is still an improvement though!

[Rik]

It depends what it's made from. Now, aluminium string is not a lot of good... 

[Ted]

It depends what it's made from. Now, aluminium string is not a lot of good... 

No its not, but its probably cheaper than copper at the moment... i wonder 

[Rik]

We've been there, Ted, and are still paying for the saving. 

[BrianM]

 wrong thread

[Simon]

It's OK, Brian, we all have those days. 

[Rik]

IAC, is there such a thing in this place?

[Ninny]

Just as a small update, thanks to Gary and Ted for providing me gratis with a filtered faceplate and a 2wire router - I'm quite sure everything my side of things is up to scratch. But my line is still dropping - usually at least once an hour every day, sometimes many times a minute. When the new equipment was first installed the line stayed up for many days at 500k more than I was getting, so the problem is obviously inconsitent. Now it's syncing at nearly that much less quite regularly.

I wanted to get interleaving turned off but wanted to make sure my line remained stable enough so first, so obviously that isn't going to happen any time soon! ARGHHHH!!

Obviously something is causing bursts of noise on the line, the only problem is how to find out of this is something local - as in equipment the neighbours have - or faults on the line which BT will entirely avoid fixing as they have no obligation to provide anything other than voice signal. I'll guess I'm going to have to double check it's nothing in the house - on my part - before getting Idnet to shout at BT.

[Sebby]

You could try taking a detuned radio round the place looking for interference.

[Lance]

With the radio on the AM frequency. Just move it along the route your cables take and listen out for the noise.

[Ninny]

I can't find a radio with AM, only FM MW and LW. Though when I had it tuned to LW it made masses of noise around all the energy-saving lightbulbs in the house, so I've taken them all out for a while just to see what happens.

[Lance]

That's fine - MW & LW are part of the AM spectrum (I think!).

[Rik]

They are, but ADSL is more in the MW.

[Steve]

I can't find a radio with AM, only FM MW and LW. Though when I had it tuned to LW it made masses of noise around all the energy-saving lightbulbs in the house, so I've taken them all out for a while just to see what happens.

How can you see where your going? Personally I wouldn't worry about the lights as there unlikely to anywhere near the cable run

[Rik]

Though low energy bulbs can be quite noisy, Steve.

[DAB Badboy]

True, I've sourced Infra Red Remote Control Unit reception problems to energy saving light bulbs before today ...

[Rik]

Tell me about it - my TV stopped responding to the remote on Saturday. One noisy low energy bulb now removed!

[Gary]

True, I've sourced Infra Red Remote Control Unit reception problems to energy saving light bulbs before today ...

We had that with a certain brand of energy saving light bulb that untill fully warm would interfere with the remote for the TV