Need some advice concerning Socket Wiring

[Ninny]

Hi,
      I recently moved to IDnet having been thoroughly annoyed with British Telecom's appalling service and customer support. For months my internet connection was running at 0.1mbs and was basically useless, calling BT up would get you put onto some people in India who don't know anything reading from a script who would tell you to turn things off and on again etc. I'm pleased to say my connection has gone up to 2mbs since moving to IDnet, once it managed to go up to 2.5mbs, but it should be able to get 3.5 and maybe even up to 4.5 - but the line is very unstable and overnight it has dropped down to 0.5mbs a few times. Also the line disconnects at random times, and when someone is on the telephone it won't connect at all. This even happens when everything is plugged into the test socket.

When I pick up the telephone sometimes there is a great deal of interference which I am presuming is the cause, it sounds like someone is trying to tune a radio or something. Had an engineer round who knew nothing about broadband and basically did a quiet line test and said all was well - when I asked about it probably needing rewiring he fobbed it off.

I tried re-wiring the socket a while back but unfortunately I may not have done a good job of it and can't remember the original configuration. The socket is the detachable faceplate type - however the wiring seems to be an old type that I can't get any help online for how to wire - there are 4 wires, orange and blue = which go to the A & B pins. The other two wires are brown and green which are currently disconnected, I'm wondering if these are causing the problem? I have 6 free IDF connectors and don't know which these two wires connect to, if they are needed at all. We don't have any extensions in the house so I am only dealing with one master socket here, with the filter going directly into it. The router is an old etec PT-8411G, here are the router stats should they be of any use, Thanks:

ADSL Statistics      
   
   Mode    G.dmt
      
   Latency    Interleave
      
   Trellis Coding    Enable
      
   Status    SHOWTIME.
      
   Power Level    L0
      
            
      Downstream    Upstream    
   SNR Margin (dB)    15.6    17.0    
   Attenuation (dB)    50.5    31.5    
   Output Power (dBm)    18.5    10.0    
   Attainable Rate (Kbps)    3924    956    
   Rate (Kbps)    3360    448    
   K (number of bytes in DMT frame)    106    15    
   R (number of check bytes in RS code word)    16    16    
   S (RS code word size in DMT frame)    2.00    8.00    
   D (interleaver depth)    16    4    
   Delay (msec)    8.00    8.00    
   FEC    749    0    
   CRC    11    0    
   Total ES    7    0    
   Total SES    0    0    
   Total UAS    0    0    
   
   
       

[Rik]

Hi Ninny and welcome to the forum.

The setup you describe is normal, the dropwire (the incoming exchange line) doesn't use the normal coding, and there's nothing you can do to change what colours are in use, they are hard-wired at a cabinet or pole junction. If you'd done anything wrong, the line would simply not work. Check the quiet line test for yourself by dialling 17070 and selecting option 2. You may hear a gentle background hiss or hum, depending on the type of phone you have, but that should be all.

Your noise margin is high, which suggests there has been instability on the line, given the other symptoms you describe, the first thing you need to do is try an alternative filter.

[Gary]

Hi Ninny have a  As Rik suggests try a different filter, if possible a filtered faceplate is the best option but if you have another filter lying around try that, also make sure you use cat 5 cables where possible, not the flat cord, that's hopeless and prone to interference, also make sure you do not have any electrical wiring near the filter and cabling that goes to your router, if you have that could potentially cause issues. Try the new filter out, if it works I would recommend an adslnation faceplate they are not expensive and work very well. Also look into the thread on the 2 Wire 2700's on the forum, they are great routers for long unstable lines and have worked wonders for others. 

[Simon]

Hi Ninny,

I can't help any further, but you're in good hands already, so all I can say is...   

[Sebby]

Is it an NTE5 master socket (the type with a removable lower half)? If it is, have you tried the test socket behind the faceplate? This eliminates all extensions and might help to determine whether it's an internal or external problem.

Perhaps you could post some pictures of the socket/wiring? It would be useful to see as I'm not 100% on the setup at the moment.

[Ted]

Sounds like the old kind of faceplate (whole front comes off). If the incoming pair are connected to A & B and it works then as Rik says it is wired correctly. However there is a possibility that the pair are reversed. It should still work but may give problems with certain equipment.

The BT Drop Cable
(The cable coming from the outside world)

This often has Orange, White, Green and Black wires.  Usually (but not always) Orange and White are the active pair and go to connections 2 and 5 in the master socket.  In some master boxes (such as the type with a removable front section) they go to two connectors marked A and B.

Which way round they are connected usually doesn't matter but some modems (especially older USA sourced ones) and some answering machines are fussy about polarity, so it's wise if possible to check the voltage on the line and connect -48V to the B leg (5) and 0V to the A leg (2) in the master socket.

you'll need a multimeter to check the polarity but they can be had quite cheaply.

Edit:
Actually this must be a new type NTE5 box and not the old LJU2 box, they didn't have A&B terminals just idc ones. Its been a while!

[Rik]

Thanks, Ted. 

[Ninny]

Hello, and thanks for your comments.

Yes, the bottom half of the faceplate is removable. As I said we have no extensions in the house, so other than the wired A & B connectors (blue and orange) - do I need either of the two surplus wires (brown and green) to go to any of the IDC connectors? I will try switching the A & B around and see if that helps.

I have 3 filters and changing them doesn't seem to help, sometimes when I try the quiet line test the interference is incredibly loud - I'll  try replacing the phone and maybe buying a filtered faceplate. These noisy line tests were done THROUGH the test socket, but when I tried through the faceplate socket it seemed to quieten the noise a bit. But as it seems random when I get interference I'm wondering if it's something in/near the house that gets turned on sometimes and causes it, or the weather or something.

Cheers!

[Rik]

Hi Ninny

The two spare wires should not be connected to anything, just tuck them out of the way.

Do you have a battery-powered AM radio? If you do, de-tune it so that all you have is white noise and try running that along the path of the phone and router cable as far as is practical. That will detect any external noise source local to the cables. Failing that, if the quiet line test is noisy with another phone, try it again with the router powered down and unplugged. If it then stops, and you're confident in your filters, it would be worth trying a different router.

[Gary]

If you have noise when you do a quiet line test I would say to BT if thats your provider you are having voice issues (do not mention adsl) they may be able to look again it could be a bad joint with water leaking in or a problem at the exchange, if you mention its effecting your internet you could be in for a nasty £160 charge if they dont find a fault, I think its your line and possible interference as well, but I would get the voice side of things looked at as that will effect your adsl anyway.

Or what Rik Said 

[Sebby]

Hello, and thanks for your comments.

Yes, the bottom half of the faceplate is removable. As I said we have no extensions in the house, so other than the wired A & B connectors (blue and orange) - do I need either of the two surplus wires (brown and green) to go to any of the IDC connectors? I will try switching the A & B around and see if that helps.

I have 3 filters and changing them doesn't seem to help, sometimes when I try the quiet line test the interference is incredibly loud - I'll  try replacing the phone and maybe buying a filtered faceplate. These noisy line tests were done THROUGH the test socket, but when I tried through the faceplate socket it seemed to quieten the noise a bit. But as it seems random when I get interference I'm wondering if it's something in/near the house that gets turned on sometimes and causes it, or the weather or something.

Cheers!

Hi Ninny. Firstly, I must just point out that we as consumers are not supposed to mess with what is connected to A and B. You can remove the lower faceplate, but not the back part.

Anyhow, there should be one wire connect to A and one to B. The cable that comes into the property is likely to have other wires, but these can be disregarded. If there are other wires in the socket connected to the lower half plate that you remove, this is the extension wiring, and really you only need terminals 2 and 5 connected. The same goes for all the other extensions in your property.

As you have an NTE5, you have a test socket and can prove whether the problem is internal or external. When you remove the lower plate, there is a socket behind it - this is the test socket. It might be useful to try your phone/router in there and see if you still experience the same problems.

[Ted]

Hi Ninny. Firstly, I must just point out that we as consumers are not supposed to mess with what is connected to A and B. You can remove the lower faceplate, but not the back part.

You're correct there Sebby, but as there are only two wires connected (A&B) and Ninny has already tried to rewire the socket i'm assuming it was these terminals he rewired. It may be that the pair are reversed, especially as he can't remember the original configuration.
Its easy to check with a meter.

[g7pkf]

For info.

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

all to do with salt in spit or something, All i know is it works and saves getting meter out etc.

[Rik]

Just hope no-one rings at that moment.

[Ted]

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

I think you should let us be the judge of that Dean! 

[Rik]

[Baz]

For info.

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

is that similar to when you put a battery on your tongue 

[Rik]

Basically, yes, Baz.

[Sebby]

For info.

and proceed at your own risk (done it hundreds of times and im ok though)

put a bit of spit on finger, place both wires on spit about 3-5mm (0.25inch or less apart) the one that fizzes is the A line.

all to do with salt in spit or something, All i know is it works and saves getting meter out etc.

I'd love to see a BT engineer do it like that.

[Rik]

They test it on the customers.

[Sebby]

[g7pkf]

I'd love to see a BT engineer do it like that.

Older BT engineers know the trick well the young uns don't know it.

although i have shown a few who were quite impressed with the speed, (they like anything that speeds the job up).

used to be a much bigger thing to get a and b right as you used to have an earth stake o/s property and that was connected as well. Now broadband can be funny about it as well. what goes around comes around.

[Ninny]

Thanks for your tips. Ok, so I don't think the internal wiring is the problem. But today my speed and ping has gone to pot yet again.



This whole time I've been plugged into the test socket as well. The BT Speedtest now says my IP profile is 135kbs, the router showed I was synced at around that speed, but after restarting I'm now synced at 3,345 kbs but my speed has yet to improve.

The phone is also getting really bad intereference again, the only thing I can think of is this seems to happen during or after it has been windy, could this be the cause? Might there be some sort of line fault that is agitated by a bit of a gust, and can BT get this fixed? This is seriously getting on my nerves now as I am a gamer and this sort of trouble is really not good when you're playing a quakelive duel!

[Rik]

Your profile will take up to five days to recover, Ninny, but hopefully a lot less for that speed difference.

If the phone is bad, all you can do is keep hammering at BT. It's highly likely that there's a line fault, possibly the cable rubbing against trees, so it's a matter of moaning every time the fault is present (keeping a log is a good idea too).

[Sebby]

I agree with Rik. Since you're having trouble in the test socket, it suggests an external problem. It's just convincing BT of that.