Ping problems

Turin · May 22, 2009, 19:10:26

Hi all,
this is my first post on the forum's and unfortunately it's because of a problem

Everyday,especially on an evening my throughput drops and my ping goes berserk.This has been going on for 2 week's now.
I've been in contact with support and done everything possible my end but I'm just not getting anywhere.This is what I'm getting with interleaving turned off on a 6Mb connection...

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 192.168.0.1
2 telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
3 telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
4 redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
5 redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
6 www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Computing statistics for 150 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address

1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 108ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 108ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 105ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 95ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 98ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=108ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 97ms, Maximum = 177ms, Average = 135ms

As you can see it's not good

Anyone else had this problem??

Rik · May 22, 2009, 19:16:08

Hi Turin and welcome to the forum.

A few people have seen ping issues, including me, but it's small scale and not as severe as the issue affecting you. In most cases, re-booting the router cures the issue, but I'm guessing you've already done that?

If throughput is dropping at the same time, my hunch would be contention at the exchange. Do you get marked differences from, say, morning to evening?

Turin · May 22, 2009, 19:22:43

Hi Rik,

I'm mainly on at night so i tend to notice it more at that time.But having said that i've been on most of the day today and it keep's happening.
I've rebooted the router which sometimes solves it(for half an hour) and sometimes it doesn't.

Rik · May 22, 2009, 19:23:41

That does sound like contention, then. Were support able to identify whether there was an issue. As a long shot, could you borrow another router to try?

Turin · May 22, 2009, 19:29:42

I've changed router's,filter's and cables with no joy.
I've been dealing Brian from support but i don't think he's seen anything specific.

Sebby · May 22, 2009, 19:39:46

Rik · May 23, 2009, 09:53:05

What are your downstream line stats, Turin (you do realise that I've instantly nicknamed you Shroud, don't you

), ie sync speed, noise margin and attenuation?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 10:51:55

Your DSL connection rate: 7456 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 6000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5616 kbps

Connection Speed    7456 kbps    448 kbps
Line Attenuation    37.0 db    18.5 db
Noise Margin    6.3 db    23.0 db

Quote from: Rik on May 23, 2009, 09:53:05
Turin (you do realise that I've instantly nicknamed you Shroud, don't you )

You are not the first and won't be the last

Rik · May 23, 2009, 10:57:42

Your profile is 500k too slow for your sync speed, which suggests that you've had some instability on the line. Throughput for the profile is about right. If that drops later in the day, then contention seems likely, but meanwhile, you might like to try running Routerstats to see what's happening to the line. It can be downloaded here if you don't already have it.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 11:05:34

Thanks Rik,I'll do that now and just so you know I'm now officially out my knowledge area and haven't a clue what I'm looking for

Rik · May 23, 2009, 11:07:04

Routerstats will monitor your noise margin and connection speed. That way, you will see any changes to your connection, plotted as a graph. It will, hopefully, give us a clearer picture of what's going on.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 16:57:18

Right i'm starting to get problems again..

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 ian [192.168.0.2]
1 192.168.0.1
2 telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
3 telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
4 redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
5 redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
6 www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Computing statistics for 150 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address

1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 98ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 109ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 103ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 87ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
1/ 100 = 1% |
6 90ms 1/ 100 = 1% 0/ 100 = 0% www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 ian [192.168.0.2]
1 192.168.0.1
2 telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
3 telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
4 redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
5 redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
6 www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Computing statistics for 150 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
|
1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 68ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 75ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 75ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 66ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
1/ 100 = 1% |
6 67ms 1/ 100 = 1% 0/ 100 = 0% www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Test result as this was going on...

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 7456 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 6000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5481 kbps

I had Routerstats running also but nothing showed up to be a problem.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:06:46

My tracert is average atm:

tracert www.idnet.net

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms home [192.168.1.254]
2 32 ms 31 ms 29 ms telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
3 34 ms 37 ms 31 ms telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

4 83 ms 31 ms 47 ms redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
5 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
6 31 ms 33 ms 33 ms www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Your profile is still 500k below what it should be, but that can take days to recover. Thoughput is possibly a little slow, but nothing to worry about. How far are you from London?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:09:23

About 160 miles

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:11:06

That would add a small amount to my times, but not that much. Do you know what depth of interleaving you have?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:11:49

Not a clue Rik

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:12:25

Have you ever been able to ping with a fast path connection?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:13:15

I thought i was on a fast path connection?

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:16:57

What's your router say? On fast path, I ping about 13ms to idnet.net, on interleaved I ping about 23ms, ie it adds 10ms to my line. It's generally reckoned to add about 20ms, so I seem to get away with quite light interleaving. There's more on the subject at Kitz.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:20:11

With interleaved i ping around 45ms.On fast path i ping at 20ms.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:20:51

So, is interleaving on now? Have you tried re-booting the router?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:24:34

Interleaved was turned off on Friday morning.Ping to idnet has gone down now to 20ms so i haven't rebooted the router this time.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:27:45

It sounds like interleaving has been turned back on to me, your router should be able to tell you, either from the error count or it should state fast path/interleaved.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:32:04

Nothing on my router states fast path/interleaved.Whereabouts would i find the error count?

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:33:01

Which router are you using?

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:33:48

Oh sorry it's a Netgear DG834PN

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:35:36

I'm not familiar with the firmware for that version, so I don't think the old way of extracting it will work:

Enter this in the browser address bar:

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug

which should result in a screen which just says 'Debug enable'.
(That's assuming that you haven't changed the router's IP address from the default).

Then exit from the web interface and open a command-line window. Type:

telnet 192.168.0.1

You should get a BusyBox welcome message to confirm that your telnet connection is established.

Now type:

cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats

If this doesn't work, we need someone to help.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:37:38

There's a bit more on Kitz, but nothing specific about getting at the error count on the PN:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleaving.htm

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:39:35

BusyBox v1.00 (2008.08.14-04:05+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats
cat: /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats: No such file or directory
#

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:41:12

Try this command from Kitz:

# adslctl info --stats

which should give you the following info:

Status: Showtime Channel: FAST, (or interleaved).

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:43:55

Channel:Fast is what i get.

Steve · May 23, 2009, 17:44:39

/usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats on the DG834N

One of the advantages of the DGTeam firmware is that you can also get the adsl stats from the diagnostic page.

http://dgteam.ilbello.com/index.php?pid=6

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:46:52

OK, that would seem to indicate exchange congestion then. To give you an idea of the sort of effect this can have, I moved to a business package for a month or so, which then gave me priority at the exchange. My ping 'base' went down from 23ms to 19ms, simply because of that priority, and that's on an uncongested exchange.

All I can suggest is that you talk to IDNet on Tuesday to see if they can find any more information about what's happening. They can look at your line and ping you directly, which will give them a better diagnostic than my wild guesses.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:47:05

Thanks, Steve.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:51:05

When this has happened before i've checked my exchange and it tell's me it's uncongested.That's what has got me so baffled.
Thanks for the input Steve

Rik · May 23, 2009, 17:53:27

Quote from: Turin on May 23, 2009, 17:51:05
When this has happened before i've checked my exchange and it tell's me it's uncongested.

The problem is that most of the online checkers are out of date, BT is slapdash at updating the dataa, and the sites which access it are getting out of date information.

Turin · May 23, 2009, 17:56:49

Quote from: Rik on May 23, 2009, 17:53:27
The problem is that most of the online checkers are out of date, BT is slapdash at updating the dataa, and the sites which access it are getting out of date information.

Good old BT strikes again

Is there anything more that can be done if that's the case?

Rik · May 23, 2009, 18:00:50

Not from here, it really needs IDNet to check the line and see what information they can get from BT. We can help with local wiring issues or router configuration, but we don't have access to IDNet's systems (probably just as well, I'd only break something.

)

Turin · May 23, 2009, 18:09:37

ok Rik,thanks for your time.I'll post back if it get's sorted.

Rik · May 23, 2009, 18:11:21

Thanks, I'll be interested to hear.

Turin · Jun 04, 2009, 08:49:27

Hey again,
well after talking with support who contacted BT.There is no problem with my line and I might see my speed drop at peak times.So i decided to put it down to contention and just keep a close eye on it.Ping's have improved lately but I'm still getting huge fluctuation's and not always at peak times

So I'm still in the dark really.
Just ran a speed test...

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5952 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4692 kbps

As thing's have improved a bit I'm now just crossing my finger's it will keep improving

Gary · Jun 04, 2009, 09:14:46

Just did a test, now two days ago my throughput was in the region of 6800 (wifi) on this laptop

Today Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2847 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

Nothing has changed, unless its exchange congestion but thats one massive loss of throughput

I have tested at the master socket with similar results a few weeks ago all was fine.
Tomorrrow it could be back up again it varies wildly across the day

edit: exchange is not congested all reports show green for now.

Rik · Jun 04, 2009, 09:52:45

Talk to support, Gary. The online checkers are often completely wrong on congestion.

Gary · Jun 04, 2009, 10:10:35

Quote from: Rik on Jun 04, 2009, 09:52:45
Talk to support, Gary. The online checkers are often completely wrong on congestion.

Will do Rik

wecpcs · Jun 04, 2009, 16:57:08

Quote from: Gary on Jun 04, 2009, 09:14:46
Just did a test, now two days ago my throughput was in the region of 6800 (wifi) on this laptop

Today Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2847 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

Nothing has changed, unless its exchange congestion but thats one massive loss of throughput I have tested at the master socket with similar results a few weeks ago all was fine.
Tomorrrow it could be back up again it varies wildly across the day

edit: exchange is not congested all reports show green for now.

I have exactly the same DSL connection and profile as you and I was getting similar throughput speeds with a doubling of my ping, but support have just switched me to GW5 from GW6 and everything is back to normal with even a slightly improved ping.

Colin

Sebby · Jun 04, 2009, 17:36:25

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 09:51:21

Well crossing my fingers didn't work,this was my connection at 10:30pm yesterday...

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=143ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=146ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=128ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 128ms, Maximum = 146ms, Average = 138ms

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 72ms, Maximum = 102ms, Average = 92ms

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=112ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=79ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 79ms, Maximum = 112ms, Average = 95ms

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 62ms, Average = 49ms

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5952 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4188 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

I also ran routerstats for a while and got this...

Any ideas?

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:00:15

Your speed doesn't look bad, the RouterStats graph reveals nothing to worry about. If you're on gw6, then drop email a support, or phone them.

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:04:00

I'm on gw5 so i guess i'll leave it

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:05:23

What's your normal ping like? I'm running a range of 21-27ms this morning, average 24ms, also on gw5.

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:10:08

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 21ms, Average = 20ms

That's what's it's normally like..

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:12:40

Have a word with support, they can see what state your exchange is in.

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:17:14

I spoke to support a little over a week ago regarding my exhange and was told "I have checked with BT and they have advised the VP within the exchange
to which your line is connected is working within limits however at busy times you are likely to see speeds fluctuate"
Trouble is i get ping troubles at random times

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:23:28

I really don't know what else to suggest. Since moving to gw5, pings have been fine for me. Are you on a wireless or wired connection?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:24:18

I'm on a wired connection.

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:32:07

That's the only other obvious local variable. Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the type where the faceplate is removable? If so, have you tried connecting at the test socket which is revealed when you remove the faceplate?

What router are you using, can you try an alternative?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:41:29

I do have a NTE5 master socket.I haven't tried going through the test socket...would that make a difference??
As for router i'm using a Netgear DG834PN.I'm thinking of getting a new one in the hope that it will help my problem some what and have been reading through the 2700 thread.
I did try with a friend's router about 2-3 weeks ago but i still had the same problem(though i could only borrow it for a night)

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:42:47

The NTE5 test socket will rule out any issues with your internal wiring, eg noise pickup. What's your downstream noise margin, sync speed and attenuation?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:46:31

ADSL Link      Downstream      Upstream
Connection Speed    5984 kbps      448 kbps
Line Attenuation      37.0 db      18.5 db
Noise Margin      11.3 db      23.0 db

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:48:09

It looks like your line might be noisy, you probably have a target noise margin of 12db. That could be affecting pings.

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:49:59

So how do i tackle that problem?

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:52:18

Switch to the test socket for a while, see if that helps. Do you have hard-wired extensions, and if you do, what's connected to them?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 10:56:53

No hardwired extensions.I'll give the test socket a go and see what happen's.Cheer's Rik

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 10:59:33

The test socket is unlikely to help if there's no extensions.

What else is connected to the line?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 11:00:25

Just the house phone.

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 11:00:53

DECT?

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 11:03:11

It is DECT

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 11:07:19

Try to keep is as far from the router as possible. If you can try an alternative router, that would eliminate that possibility as well, after which you can only talk to support.

Turin · Jun 08, 2009, 11:10:04

Ok will do.