Why is it when I upload something the internet drops to 0/Kbps?

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:22:34

Hi

Just wondering, I was uploading a 30MB file yesterday to my online file storage - however, while uploading, all my internet services stopped: browsing, iPlayer, etc... - internet was unusable, completely - no pages loaded at all. However, strangely, MSN still functioned along with the upload process.

I'm aware that while uploading, the bandwidth takes up some space in the "pipe" and I'd expect downloads to slow down, but I wouldn't expect them to stop completely!

I've got a primarily Wi-Fi setup with various extenders and a reasonable speed (see signature), bar a high-ish ping (any ideas on how to reduce that?

).

Just wondering if this happens to anyone else - thanks!

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37

I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.

As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:31:16

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.

As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?

Just did a ping - is this high for things like downloading/gaming?

Ping has started ...

PING www.idnet.net (212.69.36.10): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=26.793 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=31.644 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=27.967 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=39.558 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=26.310 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=28.330 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=28.941 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=29.321 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=27.911 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=27.427 ms

--- www.idnet.net ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 26.310/29.420/39.558/3.662 ms

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:32:56

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.

As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?

Just pinged my router (over wi-fi) and got this - why are there anomalies?

Ping has started ...

PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=1.523 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=1.560 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1.730 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=2.594 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=1.497 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=22.134 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=255 time=1.617 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=255 time=21.047 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=255 time=3.426 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=1.615 ms

--- 192.168.0.1 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 1.497/5.874/22.134/7.883 ms

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:34:07

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.

As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?

Also... interleaved?

Cheers Rik, you're a great, great help for this forum

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:36:42

The anomalies are down to a wireless connection, which adds latency. Your basic ping is OK, the line is probably interleaved.

See Kitz on the subject:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:41:07

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:36:42
The anomalies are down to a wireless connection, which adds latency. Your basic ping is OK, the line is probably interleaved.

See Kitz on the subject:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm

OK, so should I request interleaving to be turned off then? How can I check if my line is susceptible to noise?

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:42:08

What are your router stats for sync speed, noise margin and attenuation - downstream? Can you access the error stats?

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:44:22

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:42:08
What are your router stats for sync speed, noise margin and attenuation - downstream? Can you access the error stats?

Sure, here are the statistics:

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:46:06

You have interleaving on (the 7616 is the giveaway). It would be worth getting it turned off and see what happens. BT will generally do this once. If the system then turns it back on again, they tend to regard that as a final verdict on the quality of the line.

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:48:18

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:46:06
You have interleaving on (the 7616 is the giveaway). It would be worth getting it turned off and see what happens. BT will generally do this once. If the system then turns it back on again, they tend to regard that as a final verdict on the quality of the line.

OK, but are my noise levels low enough to allow for a high-quality experience with interleaving turned off? Will it improve latency and speeds? Also, how do I go about changing it and is it free? Thanks

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:51:24

You have 4db of extra margin 'headroom', so the line should run at 8128 without problem. Without knowing your error count, I can't say whether it will or not. It's free to change, just ask support to have it switched off. It will reduce latency by some 10-20ms, speed should also go up as your profile would moved from 6.5M to 7.15M.

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:53:08

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:51:24
You have 4db of extra margin 'headroom', so the line should run at 8128 without problem. Without knowing your error count, I can't say whether it will or not. It's free to change, just ask support to have it switched off. It will reduce latency by some 10-20ms, speed should also go up as your profile would moved from 6.5M to 7.15M.

Great! That appears to be all the data in the statistics so I can't give you error counts, unless there's another method to obtain that data.

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 15:54:22

Which version of the Netgear do you have?

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 15:57:28

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:54:22
Which version of the Netgear do you have?

It's the first version of the DG834 wired router with an Apple Time Capsule attached in bridge mode. Also, I've just remembered that I live exactly 1km away from the exchange if that means anything

Ray · Jun 13, 2009, 15:58:02

I had interleaving turned off on my line on Thursday morning and my synch has gone to 8128, noise margin has fallen from 13 to 9.5 and pings to 17/18ms, my profile hasn't changed from 6500 as yet.

I've had no problems since the change and the connection has been up for 2.5 days since I rebooted the router on Thursday morning.

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:30

Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 15:57:28
It's the first version of the DG834 wired router with an Apple Time Capsule attached in bridge mode. Also, I've just remembered that I live exactly 1km away from the exchange if that means anything

In that case:

Enter this in the browser address bar:

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug

which should result in a screen which just says 'Debug enable'.
(That's assuming that you haven't changed the router's IP address from the default).

Then exit from the web interface and open a command-line window. Type:

telnet 192.168.0.1

You should get a BusyBox welcome message to confirm that your telnet connection is established.

Now type:

cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats

Cut and paste the figures you get, would you. The 1km doesn't mean too much, it's the route the cable takes which counts. It's usually about double and according to your stats, that's exactly what you've got (attenuation is ~10db per km of cable).

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:56

Could anyone explain what all that raw data in the statistics panel actually means? Thanks

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 16:01:16

Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jun 13, 2009, 15:58:02
I had interleaving turned off on my line on Thursday morning and my synch has gone to 8128, noise margin has fallen from 13 to 9.5 and pings to 17/18ms, my profile hasn't changed from 6500 as yet.

I've had no problems since the change and the connection has been up for 2.5 days since I rebooted the router on Thursday morning.

You'll probably have to wait 3-5 days, Ray.

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 16:02:19

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:30
In that case:

Enter this in the browser address bar:

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug

which should result in a screen which just says 'Debug enable'.
(That's assuming that you haven't changed the router's IP address from the default).

Then exit from the web interface and open a command-line window. Type:

telnet 192.168.0.1

You should get a BusyBox welcome message to confirm that your telnet connection is established.

Now type:

cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats

Cut and paste the figures you get, would you. The 1km doesn't mean too much, it's the route the cable takes which counts. It's usually about double and according to your stats, that's exactly what you've got (attenuation is ~10db per km of cable).

I'm a mac user so I can't do command prompts I don't think - unless the same commands work in Terminal.

Ray · Jun 13, 2009, 16:04:26

Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:01:16
You'll probably have to wait 3-5 days, Ray.

Yes, that's what I thought, Rik, hopefully it should move up to 7150.

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 16:05:13

Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:56
Could anyone explain what all that raw data in the statistics panel actually means? Thanks

In what sense? The figures show the current sync speed up and down, the attenuation (effectively the length of the cable) and the noise margins (the amount of headroom the signal has over the background noise. Attenuation doesn't change much, but has a determining effect on sync speed. However, there is a hidden variable of noise, which isn't reflected in any router's stats, but which determines the sync speed achieved for a given line. Two lines can have the same attenuation but a different sync speed because one is more prone to noise pickup. When the router and DSLAM (or MSAN) are negotiating the connection, the amount of ambient noise will affect which tones can be used, and thus the sync speed.

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 16:05:31

Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jun 13, 2009, 16:04:26

Yes, that's what I thought, Rik, hopefully it should move up to 7150.

It will if you hold the 8128 sync, Ray.

netgem21 · Jun 13, 2009, 16:09:23

Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:02:19
I'm a mac user so I can't do command prompts I don't think - unless the same commands work in Terminal.

Turns out it does work in Terminal - here's the data:

AR7 DSL Modem Statistics:
--------------------------------
[DSL Modem Stats]
US Connection Rate: 448 DS Connection Rate: 7616
DS Line Attenuation: 21 DS Margin: 10
US Line Attenuation: 14 US Margin: 28
US Payload : 1253357664 DS Payload: 2643626368
US Superframe Cnt : 50123687 DS Superframe Cnt: 50123687
US Transmit Power : 0 DS Transmit Power: 0
LOS errors: 0 SEF errors: 0
Errored Seconds: 0 Severely Err Secs: 0
Frame mode: 3 Max Frame mode: 0
Trained Path: 1 US Peak Cell Rate: 1056
Trained Mode: 3 Selected Mode: 1
ATUC Vendor Code: 414C4342 ATUC Revision: 1
Hybrid Selected: 1 Trellis: 1
Showtime Count: 14 DS Max Attainable Bit Rate: 11360 kbps
BitSwap: 1 US Max Attainable Bit Rate: n/a
Annex: AnxA psd_mask_qualifier: 0x0000
Power Management Status: L0 DS HLINSC: 0
US ACTPSD: -345 DS ACTPSD: -365
Total init. errors: 1 Total init. timeouts: 0
Showtime init. errors: 0 Showtime init. timeouts: 0
Last showtime init. errors: 0 Last showtime init. timeouts: 0
ATUC ghsVid: 0f 00 41 4c 43 42 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
ATUR ghsVid: b5 00 54 53 54 43 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00

[Upstream (TX) Interleave path]
CRC: 5 FEC: 204 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 272

[Downstream (RX) Interleave path]
CRC: 22 FEC: 4923 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0

[Upstream (TX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 1
LCD: 0 HEC: 0

[Downstream (RX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0

[ATM Stats]
[Upstream/TX]
Good Cell Cnt: 26111618
Idle Cell Cnt: 874223288

Tx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Tx Bad Packets Count: 975

[Downstream/RX)]
Good Cell Cnt: 234032520
Idle Cell Cnt: 2186758688
Bad Hec Cell Cnt: 226
Overflow Dropped Cell Cnt: 0
Rx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Rx Bad Packets Count: 0

[SAR AAL5 Stats]
Tx PDU's: 70711388
Rx PDU's: 94017234
Tx Total Bytes: 1304119983
Rx Total Bytes: 4132938604
Tx Total Error Counts: 0
Rx Total Error Counts: 35

[OAM Stats]
Near End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Near End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
SAR OAM Ping Response Drop Count=0
#

(Sorry for the poor formatting!

)

Rik · Jun 13, 2009, 16:13:20

How long has the router been 'up'?

That's a pretty low error count unless you've just re-booted it, so I think you'll be OK with interleaving off. The only slightly worrying thing is you've has some bad upstream packets, which can signify local noise.