All part of the service?

PuncH · Jun 20, 2009, 10:57:25

Connection had been up for just over 32 hours and I popped out for an hour or so. Came home and found that PPPoA had dropped and reconnected and had been up for about an hour.

The thing is I have a slightly higher sync speed as a result, so my question is, is this:

a) a result of the DLM thinking "hang on, this line can go a little faster" and re-syncing me
b) all part of the "settling in" period of ADSL2+
c) was the re-sync just one of those unavoidable things and should I just get over it and get on with things and stop worrying about things!

I know I don't have a major problem with my line because I'd be getting disconnections all the time. I have also used the BT test socket recently and there was no change in my sync speed etc.

Thanks in advance, and I'm sorry to have bombarded the board so much recently.

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:09:13

If your sync speed has changed, it's more than a drop of PPPoA. I would say it's option (c). The DLM never thinks the line can go faster and drops the sync. To me, it just sounds like there was a burst of noise, which caused a re-sync, but actually the noise was a bit lower then it came to actually sync again.

I wouldn't worry too much at this stage as it doesn't seem to be causing a lot of problems. The test socket won't necessarily increase your sync speed, but it's theoretically less prone to noise than extension sockets, and so you might find that you don't have drops in sync. If this is the case, we can look at improving your internal wiring.

rireed3 · Jun 20, 2009, 11:16:02

The same thing happened to me twice, once even after the 10-day 'training'.

I left well alone. I reasoned that since I was always on 8128 with plenty of margin, I don't know much about getting a 'best effort'. I was left with a noise margin of just 4 db and a significant sync increase.

I worried about the extra errors. Then I worried about being interleaved, but that didn't really affect my ping times as expected, and it really did fix the errors.

Now I worry a bit about large numbers of forward error corrections (FEC), but those are really reports of successful error correction, but I can worry about 'how many have to be corrected'

The short answer is "if it's stable and doesn't get in your way, don't worry".

I've done only two things:
- I turned off the router during really big lightning storms -- I don't give DLM that much credit
- When I've turned off (after the 10-day training), I try to turn on during the worst time, so I get a somewhat lower sync and extra margin when things get better . I'm a little more conservative than 4db and many errors.

Richard

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:20:24

Corrected errors are nothing to worry about, Richard. It's the uncorrected errors that are of more concern because they can impact throughput.

You're right to sync at a noisy time in some respects as it means your stats shouldn't drop below the target margin at any time. What is your setup like? Are you connected to an extension socket? Have you removed ring wires or anything like that?

PuncH · Jun 20, 2009, 11:23:57

Cool, thanks Sebby.

I don't mind the occasional re-sync. As for my internal wiring I don't believe there are any extensions coming off the master socket (I couldn't see any when I took the front off anyway). The cable from the phoneline to my router is flat and 15m long though (router is upstairs) so that could be a potential source of any problems in the future.

Just noticed routerstats telnet terminal page says "Line status: No defect"

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:25:44

Is it the phone cable or the network cable that's 15m?

PuncH · Jun 20, 2009, 11:27:06

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2009, 11:25:44
Is it the phone cable or the network cable that's 15m?

It's the cable that runs from the filter at the master socket into the back of the router.

I've also noticed the interleave depth has reverted back to 1, from 96 according to routerstats.

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:28:41

Ah, okay, that's not ideal as it's potentially going to pick up a lot of noise. What would be better is to move the router near the socket and use a short (1m or so) telephone cable, then run a 15m network cable upstairs.

rireed3 · Jun 20, 2009, 11:34:05

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2009, 11:20:24
What is your setup like? Are you connected to an extension socket? Have you removed ring wires or anything like that?

Thanks, Sebby.

I cleared all that up a couple of years ago when I had real problems. No extension wiring now, never used it anyway. Shortest cable from the router.

This is all quite steady now at 4 - 4.5 db and my current sync is 19419 on my fairly short 24 db line. I just didn't expect quite so aggressive syncing. I wouldn't be bothered even if it got a little noiser maybe through more ADSL2+ crosstalk and dropped my sync a bit.

Richard

PuncH · Jun 20, 2009, 11:34:32

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2009, 11:28:41
Ah, okay, that's not ideal as it's potentially going to pick up a lot of noise. What would be better is to move the router near the socket and use a short (1m or so) telephone cable, then run a 15m network cable upstairs.

I may well try that. I'm wireless to the laptop but my xbox is wired to the router but I have a long network cable I could run to the xbox from downstairs if need be.

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:42:16

Quote from: rireed3 on Jun 20, 2009, 11:34:05
Thanks, Sebby.

I cleared all that up a couple of years ago when I had real problems. No extension wiring now, never used it anyway. Shortest cable from the router.

This is all quite steady now at 4 - 4.5 db and my current sync is 19419 on my fairly short 24 db line. I just didn't expect quite so aggressive syncing. I wouldn't be bothered even if it got a little noiser maybe through more ADSL2+ crosstalk and dropped my sync a bit.

Richard

Fair enough. Keep an eye on things and let us know if you have any trouble.

Sebby · Jun 20, 2009, 11:42:29

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2009, 11:42:16
Fair enough. Keep an eye on things and let us know if you have any trouble.

That should, theoretically, help a lot.

Lance · Jun 20, 2009, 11:48:37

The flat extension cables are the worst type. Get the long network cable out now!!

PuncH · Jun 21, 2009, 00:02:11

Am going to change my cabling around on Monday.

Will move the router downstairs and get a short (2-3m) cable to connect to the phoneline. And the long network cable will go from my router up to my xbox 360 (can't afford the wireless adaptor for the 360).

That should then pretty much eliminate any potential issues inside the house. As far as I'm aware there are no extensions coming from my master socket, and if there are they are not causing any issues as my sync and speeds are the same whether I use the test socket or the normal socket.

Sebby · Jun 21, 2009, 01:23:02

Good stuff, that really should help you out. One of the worst things you can do with ADSL is have a long telephone cable.

You might want to go for a high-quality twisted-pair cable, something like these (and as short as possible).

PuncH · Jun 21, 2009, 09:20:25

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 21, 2009, 01:23:02
Good stuff, that really should help you out. One of the worst things you can do with ADSL is have a long telephone cable.

You might want to go for a high-quality twisted-pair cable, something like these (and as short as possible).

I'll see what my local computer shop has in stock. They usually have good quality stuff. And of course it mean I can buy it tomorrow and sort it all out while I have a bee in my bonnet about it all!

PuncH · Jun 21, 2009, 15:45:26

Quote from: PuncH on Jun 21, 2009, 09:20:25
I'll see what my local computer shop has in stock. They usually have good quality stuff. And of course it mean I can buy it tomorrow and sort it all out while I have a bee in my bonnet about it all!

@ Sebby....I've found a couple of short telephone cables, one of which I believe came with my Netgear router. One is 1m and the other 1.5m.

Would they do for ADSL2+ or would I be better of getting a brand new cable?

Sebby · Jun 21, 2009, 17:10:16

They'll be fine for ADSL2+. The only thing is about the cables that come supplied with routers is that they tend to be the cheap flat type, which is susceptible to noise pickup. A good quality cable is worthwhile, even for just eliminating it as an issue. That said, if you're using a 1m length, it shouldn't make too much difference.

PuncH · Jun 21, 2009, 21:20:00

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 21, 2009, 17:10:16
They'll be fine for ADSL2+. The only thing is about the cables that come supplied with routers is that they tend to be the cheap flat type, which is susceptible to noise pickup. A good quality cable is worthwhile, even for just eliminating it as an issue. That said, if you're using a 1m length, it shouldn't make too much difference.

Cool. I'll see what the computer shop has tomorrow. If it only has flat ones I might as well use the ones I've already got.

As for placement of the router it'll be on top of a bookshelf which is about 4ft high but my wireless phone (with a ren of 1) will be about 3 feet away, and about 1 foot below. I've had the phones for several years and the wireless router about a year and have had no issues but then the router has always been well away from the phone itself, although I've been on the phone chatting and sat near the router.

PuncH · Jun 22, 2009, 19:43:41

Well...router's moved and I'm now using a nice short 1m phone cable to the filter that goes into the master socket.

Line attenuation has dropped from 16db to 15.5db, sync speed the same at the moment. Noise margin is 12db and has hardly wavered since I bought the connection back up.

Sebby · Jun 22, 2009, 20:35:11

If it stays stable, your target SNRM might drop, giving you more sync.

Lance · Jun 22, 2009, 22:58:42

Sounds like you've a nice and stable line there! As sebby has said, if you stay connected for long enough you noise margin should drop giving a higher sync.

PuncH · Jun 23, 2009, 00:05:17

Quote from: Lance on Jun 22, 2009, 22:58:42
Sounds like you've a nice and stable line there! As sebby has said, if you stay connected for long enough you noise margin should drop giving a higher sync.

fingers crossed. depends how long "long enough" is i guess. it was up for 55 hours before i disconnected tonight to do the router move. now gonna leave it for a few days.

Sebby · Jun 23, 2009, 00:08:32

Long enough is 14 days without losing sync.

Lance · Jun 23, 2009, 06:44:57

Although I think someone else on adsl2+ reported it as a lower period of time which is why I was deliberately vague!