Disconnection problems

[Chris Dutton]

Hi all,

Anyone got any advice?

i am suffering intermittant disconnection problems (when it happens i get the flashing internet light on my linksys wag160n router)

when it occurs the phone line in invevitably noisy, crackles etc etc

now the fun bit, i have had this issue for around 2-3 years and have had many visits from bt engineers and amounting costs due to no faults being found by them, but have been able to get the costs back from bt as i can prove i am having disconnection problems

bt have fitted the filter to the bt master socket by the front door, i have 2 extensions from the socket to 2 telephones, my router is plugged direct into the master socket via the bt filter, bt had found and fixed the problem apperently around 12 months ago (corrosion at one of the junction boxes) but the problem died off but never really went away

i have moved isp as plusnet my previous isp had no interest (oh and over charged me for 18 months) so am hoping that someone somewhere might be my shining light and show me the way forward

cheers

chris

[Sebby]

There is definitely something wrong with the line. Do you know if BT have tried switching you to a new pair? In the mean time, have you tried the test socket behind the front plate of your BT master socket? It would be good to eliminate your internal wiring as the cause initially.

[Chris Dutton]

hiya sebby,

yeah i have tried the test plate inside the bt socket and the noise is the same

it doesnt do it all the time, it happened around 8:20 this evening with around 5 disconnections in a row, crackling quite alot on the line

and at the same time lastnight

now on my third router, before was a netger dg834gt i think and the one before i cant remember and the performance is all about the same

i only joined idnet on yesterday after a glowing recommendation from a younger cousin, as i say plusnet werent interested in trying to sort it and i feel like pulling the bt socket out of the wall when it happens

the noise isn't always there and im at work 830-5 so cant see what the internet is doing while im out earning pennies

bt tell me to connect my isp when i complain and then my old isp told me to contact bt

HELP lol   lol

[Sebby]

Given that you've tried a few routers, we can rule that out. Have you tried different filters? Although I think it's unlikely to be the cause, it would cause noise if the filter(s) was/were failing.

Who to contact is a weird one. If it's a broadband fault, you need to go via your ISP. If it's a voice fault, you have to go to BT directly. I'd be inclined to chase this one as a voice fault, not mentioning broadband to BT at all - if you do, they'll fob you off. Tell them you have intermittent noise and crackling.

[Chris Dutton]

see now this thing with filters,

i only have one filter in the house, this is the bt face plate adsl filter provided by bt themselves

the 2 extensions plug into the front of this (not behind) and the phones are then connected at the end of the extensions

bt engineer advised this way as the extensions are already filtered at the master socket

as soon as i contact bt they want a call out charge of £XXX if no fault is found

have been down the route of not telling them about broadband fault and they tried on 2-3 visits to charge me for no fault found visits

as i say i cant tell weather the fault is there in the day time as im at work and i cant see bt sending out an engineer at 8pm to come visit me lol

[Simon]

Hi Chris, and   

Sorry to ask the basics, but have you tried connecting to the test socket with none of the other extensions connected?  Just clutching at straws, but I was wondering if it might be a faulty phone, or socket doubler, assuming you are using one to connect the phones to the adsl filter.

[Ted]

Hi Chris
Download RouterStats and leave it running, it'll give you a record of noise on the line and also when it happens. You could check in the router logs for disconnections as well.
Can you post your line stats, i.e., Sync, Attenuation and Noise margin.

[Chris Dutton]

Hi Simon, yeah i have disconnected the face plate and straight into the test socket, the noise is still there

going to get it monitored throughout the day to see if its time depenedent as it seems to have quietened down somewhat now

Hi Ted,

Have downloaded routerstats and trying to match up the data to router, i have the linksys WAG160n and from what i can see i cant find the attenuation and noise margin figures?

can you poss shed some light on where i might find it?

[4Way]

Have you tried the quiet line test to see if it is a voice fault?

[Ted]

Chris.

Found this on the net, give it a try.

"There's an unlinked/"secret" page in the WAG160N router's web admin interface with the line stats available at this address..."

http://192.168.1.1/setup.cgi?next_file=adsl_driver.htm

[Chris Dutton]

nice one dude


--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version:  AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI:         0/38
DSL Status:          ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   0
DSL Mode:            G.DMT
DSL Channel:         INTR
DSL Upstream Rate:   448 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3872 Kbps

                      Down         up   
DSL Noise Margin:     9.3 dB       8.0 dB
DSL Attenuation:     50.0 dB      30.0 dB
DSL Transmit Power:  18.3 dBm     11.9 dBm

[Ted]

The downstream rate looks ok for that attenuation and NM, its quite a long line. The NM is probably set to 12 (should be 6 by default) because of the instability on the line and that is holding your sync down a bit.
The NM won't come down while the line is unstable. Intermittant problems are a real PITA. Apart from reporting it, which you've already done i can't really see what you can do.
Have you had IDNet look at the line at all?

Why would Linksys hide the stats page 

[rireed3]

Hi Chris.

BT have no process for investigating intermittents that I can identify.

Simon_idnet has offered the following in another long-term intermittent case:

Given the high cost of a BT Engineer visit (that we would expect to result in a "no fault found") I would hazard that the most cost-effective course of action for you would be to order a new phone line from BT and then to move your broadband service (and telephone number) to the new line.

That would work if the problem is specific to your pair and you don't have to pay big-time to have another pair run to your house.

If the problem is experienced by neighbours or you to have to pay a lot for the second line, I'd look for cable broadband.  BT are supposed to fix voice faults, but they make you prove them with their cr*ppy equipment and processes.

Richard

[Rik]

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum.

Have you tried a quiet line test (dial 17070 and select option 2). If you hear crackling then, report it to BT as a voice fault, don't mention ADSL at all. Another technique which has been known to work is to report that, intermittently, you hear other people on the line. The standard cure for that is to swap the exchange pair. One other option you might consider is to move your voice line to IDNet, they are much more effective at chasing down faults, as I discovered myself recently.

[rireed3]

Hi Rik,

I think Chris has been through all that (except IDNet voice):

now the fun bit, i have had this issue for around 2-3 years and have had many visits from bt engineers and amounting costs due to no faults being found by them, but have been able to get the costs back from bt as i can prove i am having disconnection problems

Richard

[Rik]

My brain is still in Scotland, Richard.

[Glenn]

Best drive back and get it

[Rik]

Tomorrow, perhaps.

[Simon]

My brain is still in Scotland, Richard.

Could be worse, it could be in a jar like Michael Jackson's. 

[Rik]

 

[Sebby]

The stats look okay for the attenuation, so this really does look like an intermittent fault. Given you have a filtered faceplate and have tried the test socket, it rules the filter out.

[Chris Dutton]

hi all,

thanks for the response

yeah i have the face plate, it is approx 18months - 2 years old and have just ordered another unit

have been asked to go direct into the test socket, i did this with a spare new phone lastnight and the noise was still present, for the present time the noise isnt there but think im going to buy a phone call recorder unit and try to cature the noise so i can play it back to bt engineer

great shout about the voices heard on the line, i'll keep that on standby, tried the 17070 option 2 test and as i say it was nice and quiet but see how long it lasts

the the thing that gets me most is BT, im a car mechanic and if someone has a problem with there car and i cant fix it say, then they go to another mechanic (but that wouldnt happen as im a master tech for vw so am well good  ) but if i have a problem with my bt line i have no one else but bt to go to

i hate contacting BT cause they try to make you feel like your imagining things

pity i dont know a friendly engineer i could bung a few quid too to help me out 

[Sebby]

If the noise is still present at the test socket, it's an external line issue.

[Rik]

Good luck, Chris. As I say, moving your voice line to IDNet would mean they could get involved with sorting things more completely.

Now, about this rattle when I'm driving.

[Chris Dutton]

yep agree sebby but have been asked to fit my router to the test socket

idont know how im going to do this without a filter??? my bt face plate is already a filter so not sure how???