Stats stats and more stats

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 10:34:23

I joined Idnet a couple of weeks ago and was promptly seeing ADSL2+ speeds of around 12Mb/s - a doubling over my previous ISP!
But there has been a severe drop to around 4.77Mb/s in the last couple of days.
Could anyone glean anything from the router stats below?
I have a Belkin N1 and I'm about 1km from my exchange. Noise testing the line seems fine. (Haven't yet checked my master socket/ring wire as speeds had been great...)

adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1117 Kbps, Downstream rate = 9724 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   17.6      7.5
Attn(dB):   16.5      6.7
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      12.0
Max(Kbps):   20128      1148
Rate (Kbps):   9724      1117
         G.dmt framing
K:      79(0)      26
R:      16      8
S:      1      8
D:      96      4
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      77      10
B:      78      25
M:      1      8
T:      3      6
R:      16      8
S:      0.2588      5.9178
L:      2936      292
D:      96      4
         Counters
SF:      4668992      4425610
SFErr:      569      0
RS:      1162579094      3539237
RSCorr:      252097      0
RSUnCorr:   13116      0

HEC:      502      0
OCD:      30      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   1725580825      1856653
Data Cells:   9942142      8358
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      10998      0
SES:      306      0
UAS:      958      0
AS:      75236

INP:      2.09      0.43
PER:      16.11      17.75
delay:      6.21      5.91
OR:      41.20      7.20

Bitswap:   60      27

Total time = 1 days 19 hours 49 min 27 sec
SF = 68935338
CRC = 42599
LOS = 30
LOF = 269
ES = 10998
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 49 min 27 sec
SF = 4428914
CRC = 545
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 320
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 27 sec
SF = 16620
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55833
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 3
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5319289
CRC = 9021
LOS = 24
LOF = 215
ES = 617
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55834
CRC = 6
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 6
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55896
CRC = 6
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55834
CRC = 5
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 10:39:55

Hi Ron

Welcome to the forum.

It looks to me as if your target noise margin has been raised from 6db to 15db, which will be down to instability or a high error count on the line.

QuoteSNR (dB): 17.6 7.5
Attn(dB): 16.5 6.7

The 24 hour stats, if I'm reading them correctly, suggest instability:

QuotePrevious 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5319289
CRC = 9021
LOS = 24 <<<<<<<<<<<<
LOF = 215 <<<<<<<<<<<
ES = 617

Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the kind where the bottom part of the faceplate can be removed? If so, could you try the router in the test socket which is revealed for 24 hours or so?

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 10:47:54

Hi Rik

Many thanks for your quick response.

Is there any action I can take re: instability / high error count?

I don't have the master socket you mention - it's a non-NTE5. Plain square white plastic.

RG

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 10:51:12

Have a word with support, Ron, they can test the line and see error counts etc. In the absence of an NTE5, is there anything in the house which has change electrically or telephonically? Have you added any new devices to the phone line, eg Sky box? What is connected, do you have any hard-wired extensions or any 'flying lead' extensions? Do you have an AM battery powered radio? If so, de-tune it so you just have white noise, then follow the phone line to the router and listen for any noise increase.

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 10:55:01

I'll get straight onto them Rik. No, nothing has changed electrically or telephonically since getting great speeds 14 days ago! Is it still worth having a look at the ringer wire d'you think?

Quote from: Rik on Jul 10, 2009, 10:51:12
Have a word with support, Ron, they can test the line and see error counts etc. In the absence of an NTE5, is there anything in the house which has change electrically or telephonically? Have you added any new devices to the phone line, eg Sky box? What is connected, do you have any hard-wired extensions or any 'flying lead' extensions? Do you have an AM battery powered radio? If so, de-tune it so you just have white noise, then follow the phone line to the router and listen for any noise increase.

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 10:55:48

It's always worth getting rid of the ring wire, Ron.

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 11:01:24

Shall check all sockets this evening ... and check-in with IDnet support. Thanks for your help.

Quote from: Rik on Jul 10, 2009, 10:55:48
It's always worth getting rid of the ring wire, Ron.

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 11:04:22

My pleasure.

Run a BT speed test before you do, Ron, as I think your profile is low.

Steve · Jul 10, 2009, 11:21:17

Hope you get sorted soon

Rik et al. Possible ADSL2+ info

I have been having a browse on TBB forum here and here the first thread implies that BT can enforce a "branded profile" on a line where they see high errors and instability,the result being that without ISP/BT action the profile/sync will never recover above a certain ceiling. The second thread in one post describes how aggressively the DSLAM reacts to noise on a line depending on a sensitivity setting previously applied to your line. Not sure which way round it is but on one setting any noise will cause an abrupt and dramatic increase in the noise margin whereas on the another the noise maybe tolerated or the increase less dramatic.

Simon · Jul 10, 2009, 11:21:37

Can't add to the above, but

Ron, and

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 11:26:48

Thanks, Steve. There does seem to be more sensitivity with ADSL2+ and, just as in the early days of Max, we're all going to be learning as we go.

Ray · Jul 10, 2009, 11:38:35

Ron and

Steve · Jul 10, 2009, 11:39:12

Certainly I am not sure at present if it was available for me I'd want it ,it seems a bit of a leap into the unknown.I guess the decision for many of us eventually will be forced on economic grounds due to difference in costs between the two.

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 11:42:01

All I can go on is my own experience, Steve. Starting from a 1M fixed-rate product, I settled at 2.5M on Max, but now have 3.5M on WBC, with higher upload speeds. Stability has been pretty good from day 1.

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 15:19:41

OK... disconnected orange ringer wire as advised and there was an immediate jump in SNR reading from 17.6 before disconnect to 28.8 after (see stats below) ...
what does this indicate?

adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1141 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6653 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   28.8      8.5
Attn(dB):   16.0      6.6
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      12.1
Max(Kbps):   22992      1140
Rate (Kbps):   6653      1141
         G.dmt framing
K:      63(0)      164
R:      16      0
S:      1      1
D:      96      1
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      65      10
B:      62      163
M:      1      1
T:      3      1
R:      16      0
S:      0.3013      4.5714
L:      2097      287
D:      96      1
         Counters
SF:      6686      5957
SFErr:      0      0
RS:      1424274      0
RSCorr:      0      0
RSUnCorr:   0      0

HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   1682097      13175
Data Cells:   92      1
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      11007      0
SES:      310      0
UAS:      1093      0
AS:      107

INP:      2.92      0.00
PER:      16.04      18.28
delay:      7.23      1.14
OR:      35.39      7.00

Bitswap:   0      0

Total time = 1 days 1 hours 7 min 48 sec
SF = 70114452
CRC = 44366
LOS = 34
LOF = 304
ES = 11007
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 7 min 48 sec
SF = 245362
CRC = 1315
LOS = 3
LOF = 26
ES = 4
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 48 sec
SF = 26498
CRC = 410
LOS = 1
LOF = 8
ES = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5362666
CRC = 997
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 325
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 50684
CRC = 904
LOS = 2
LOF = 18
ES = 2
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000

Sebby · Jul 10, 2009, 15:36:02

Now reboot the router and then re-post your stats.

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 15:51:46

Spoke to James at support and gave him all the pre and post ringer disconnect stats - he's asked me not to touch the router for a while but to let IDNet talk to BT about 'unbanding' me ... apparently I've had five disconnects today alone!!!

Quote from: Sebby on Jul 10, 2009, 15:36:02

Now reboot the router and then re-post your stats.

Sebby · Jul 10, 2009, 15:54:15

Hmm, okay. I'd have thought your problems are now fixed since removing the ring wire. The disconnects are caused by noise in general - removing the ring wire has had a positive effect on your SNRM. If you re-sync now, your SNRM will go back down to 15dB (which I suspect is your current target) and you should be sync'ing higher, as if by magic.

Rik · Jul 10, 2009, 16:30:29

I agree with Seb.

Steve · Jul 10, 2009, 19:24:22

I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.

RonGodwin · Jul 10, 2009, 20:20:18

Here's hoping, Steve.

Rik & Sebby - I'll abide by James' instructions for now and not reset the router until word comes back from BT re: the 'banding' issue. So, probably no news until early next week.

Thanks for everyone's support and advice. This really is an exceptional community.

RonG

Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 10, 2009, 19:24:22
I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.

zappaDPJ · Jul 10, 2009, 20:46:38

Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 10, 2009, 19:24:22
I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.

I've pretty much given up on getting a resolution to my connection problems. Almost everyday a new oddity occurs. I'm not really inclined to pursue it anymore because a) as of this afternoon I can by agreement share my next door neighbour's connection in the short term and b) I hope to be able to connect to fibre in a month or two. I was going to switch back to max but I no longer believe that will resolve the issue.

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 10:23:31

Fibre? Do tell us more, Zap.

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 10:24:06

Quote from: RonGodwin on Jul 10, 2009, 20:20:18
This really is an exceptional community.

Thanks, Ron, we try hard to make it a good place to be.

zappaDPJ · Jul 11, 2009, 15:59:52

Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 10:23:31
Fibre? Do tell us more, Zap.

My exchange has had FTTC for a while Rik, it was one of two reasons why I moved to this area. My neighbour is about to trial it and according to the Openreach engineers I've spoken with it should become generally available in this area sooner rather than later as Openreach management are eager to speed up deployment. I'm also fairly sure that the original FTTC installations that were announced have now been rolled out to ISPs and I'm assuming if they are successful then the rest, which I think total around 70 exchanges, will be deployed.