Had to request MAC

David · Jul 10, 2009, 22:46:13

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6592 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 274 kbps

This is going on too long for me now I think its since 5th June this started and IDNET have been great in the past but I have to wonder what I am paying for ,I know that its like bat and ball with blame but as a user I just only wanted to get my service back this is I think about the 4th weekend and although I am faithful and loyal to the forum with all here I have to on this occassion say I feel very let down with so many reasons why but no real explaination nor any real reason to think that things are going to change.
I hope it just me

I need an internet connection which is like I got used to not what I left and as you can see this is painful and I have regrets having to post his.
Lost connections now and to be truthful support has slipped a little I have had Emails not replied to and its just slipped.

No more complaints just dissappointed greatly

Steve · Jul 10, 2009, 22:54:20

Shame David sorry to hear . Can I suggest try ADSL max on ZEN, if they'll let you have ADSL max or if O2 LLU is available at your exchange go for that . Don't touch O2 8 mb service though. Sam knows will tell you what's available at your exchange.Good luck

PS If its any consolation I think I would have made the same decision.

Glenn · Jul 10, 2009, 22:57:02

Good luck with your move David, don't be a stranger, like Steve has said, choose wisely where you move to.

zappaDPJ · Jul 10, 2009, 23:15:47

I can only sympathise as I'm in the same boat as you although I've delayed switching back to max as I can't risk losing my connection completely. I wish you luck with finding something more stable

Oh by coincidence I also lost my connection tonight as well, it's almost as if we share the same equipment.

David · Jul 10, 2009, 23:19:14

Thanks guys I hope to stay on here as a fully paid up member of this great forum to me one of the best.....I just cant keep being kept in this limbo with really nothing being done thats all...I am not a complainer but it has been a while Zen will proberly get the job

Simon · Jul 10, 2009, 23:23:30

I'll be very interested to hear if changing provider solves the problems, David. You know you'll always be welcome here.

glen · Jul 10, 2009, 23:24:18

Know how you feel mate, same boat myself, thinking of changing isp, my connection is up and down like yoyo and pings are getting stupidly high. Dont know whats going on wether its the isp or bt or what and to be honest I dont really care now I just want a connection thats stable, thats all.

Steve · Jul 10, 2009, 23:32:32

I think thats part of the frustration we don't have the information at hand to make an educated decision. We know there's 2 parts to the equation BT and the ISP .If we stick to non LLU providers and it gets better we can blame the ISP if stays the same we can blame BT. What we can't change even by going LLU unless we physically move is the connection to the exchange and for that we rely on BT.

glen · Jul 10, 2009, 23:52:30

I always wondered if ofcom executives had shares in BT and Tiscali and the rest of it, considering that these companys seem to get away with anything.

Sebby · Jul 11, 2009, 00:18:40

Sorry to hear that you're moving on, David. Like Simon, I'll be interested to see whether it resolves your issues.

David · Jul 11, 2009, 00:44:34

Thanks Sebby and Simon and Glenn and of course not forgetting Rik you do a very difficult job and I you wont know how apreciative I am for all the guidence and help you have given,I wouldnt do your job for all the tea in china and seperating this haven from IDNET its only one persons point but something has changed I appreciate I am a small fish but I hope the service gets back to what it was they are still no doubt one of the best it seems disjointed now and from my point I hope as they do usually learn something.....enough said now.

PuncH · Jul 11, 2009, 00:57:02

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 11, 2009, 00:44:34
Thanks Sebby and Simon and Glenn and of course not forgetting Rik you do a very difficult job and I you wont know how apreciative I am for all the guidence and help you have given,I wouldnt do your job for all the tea in china and seperating this haven from IDNET its only one persons point but something has changed I appreciate I am a small fish but I hope the service gets back to what it was they are still no doubt one of the best it seems disjointed now and from my point I hope as they do usually learn something.....enough said now.

Sorry to see you go mate, and it's a shame it's come to this.

I am, however, wondering if IDNet's support have been a little overwhelmed by the sudden influx of post ADSL2+ regrade issues? It could be why you feel their service levels have dropped.

I for one believe their service to be as excellent as always, especially after an odd problem with my connection on Wednesday night which was sorted within half an hour of calling the support line at around 6.15pm.

Dopamine · Jul 11, 2009, 03:33:52

Which ISP are you moving to? Whoever it is, please come back and let us know how you're getting on, as I too have been suffering with a problem that is dragging on and on and on (uploading with IDNet email or to IDNet FTP kills my ability to download) and support don't seem to be that bothered about getting it dealt with quickly. Almost a month has gone by since notifying them of the slowdown, and this is where I'm at:

Initial investigations indicate that this 'problem' is due to the upstream capacity being saturated, when an upload is initiated, which causes delays to the control packets that are regulating the flow of the download stream. i.e. if the speed of the upload could be limited to, say, 80% of the upstream capacity then that would leave enough bandwidth available for the download FTP process to signal back to the server that the data being downloaded has been correctly received in a timely manner. We are currently checking this hypothesis.

How long does it take to check a hypothesis?

I only stay with IDNet because I don't know of anyone better, so your user experience of another ISP will be valuable.

Gary · Jul 11, 2009, 07:48:49

Sorry to see you go David, but I would probably feel the same, for me there is no LLU here so going back to O" would be out, I would go with AAISP expensive but they look to be good. With all the new adsl 2+ issues (never had any on LLU) I think support is swamped, not that its an excuse but they are not a big company, which is probably why Dopemines issues have not been sorted as well, there is only so much so few people can do at any given time. I have noticed support being "short" but when getting hold of Simon or James the service is great and they and Miriam are fantastic, I hope moving gets your issues sorted. Check out AAISP they seem to be good at taking on problem lines and working on the issues, get back to us and let us know how it goes, and don't be a stranger.

trophymick · Jul 11, 2009, 07:52:03

Sad news David.

I hope it proves to be the right move.

As everyone else has said, let us know how you get on.
My pings lately have gone haywire, nothing has changed at this end, I am religious about not disturbing things that are working.

kinmel · Jul 11, 2009, 08:01:59

Quote from: Dopamine on Jul 11, 2009, 03:33:52
Initial investigations indicate that this 'problem' is due to the upstream capacity being saturated, when an upload is initiated, which causes delays to the control packets that are regulating the flow of the download stream. i.e. if the speed of the upload could be limited to, say, 80% of the upstream capacity then that would leave enough bandwidth available for the download FTP process to signal back to the server that the data being downloaded has been correctly received in a timely manner. We are currently checking this hypothesis.

Have you tried changing your FTP client to ACTIVE mode ?

kinmel · Jul 11, 2009, 08:03:14

Sorry to hear you are leaving David, we all hope you will keep in touch

Gary · Jul 11, 2009, 08:13:07

Quote from: trophymick on Jul 11, 2009, 07:52:03
Sad news David. I hope it proves to be the right move. As everyone else has said, let us know how you get on.
My pings lately have gone haywire, nothing has changed at this end, I am religious about not disturbing things that are working.

My pings went mad on gw6 I was moved to gw5 and they are fine, have been for awhile apart from Wimbledon

they are about 29ms over a wifi connection to idnet.

Ray · Jul 11, 2009, 08:16:48

Sorry to hear you are going, David,

that this solves your problems.

Steve · Jul 11, 2009, 08:21:13

AAISP just had a look, you've got to be careful between 9am-6pm Mon-Friday I see the professional tariff allows 2GB/month weekday daytime with additional priced in 2Gb steps.

rireed3 · Jul 11, 2009, 08:32:29

Can you get O2-Be LLU? If I had your trouble I'd skip right out of BT, if I could.

Richard

trophymick · Jul 11, 2009, 09:14:16

Quote from: Gary on Jul 11, 2009, 08:13:07
My pings went mad on gw6 I was moved to gw5 and they are fine, have been for awhile apart from Wimbledon they are about 29ms over a wifi connection to idnet.

I was moved from gw6 onto gw5 a few weeks ago, when a lot of people were having problems.

It's back to the tin foil hat, now that really works.

Steve · Jul 11, 2009, 09:45:14

I notice reading the ZEN ADSL2+ info that customers will be moved over to that service when the service has been tested and if your exchange has been enabled. In other words no choice.

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 10:04:54

That's a shame, but I know other ISPs are doing that because of the cost benefits. Take a look at Newnet, David, they may suit your needs. Whatever you do, don't stop coming here.

Sebby · Jul 11, 2009, 10:58:17

Quote from: Dopamine on Jul 11, 2009, 03:33:52
Initial investigations indicate that this 'problem' is due to the upstream capacity being saturated, when an upload is initiated, which causes delays to the control packets that are regulating the flow of the download stream. i.e. if the speed of the upload could be limited to, say, 80% of the upstream capacity then that would leave enough bandwidth available for the download FTP process to signal back to the server that the data being downloaded has been correctly received in a timely manner. We are currently checking this hypothesis.

Someone else had the same problem. If you're maxing out the upload bandwidth, then even when you try to download, it can't upload the small amount of data needed, hence everything grinds to a halt.

zappaDPJ · Jul 11, 2009, 13:32:38

Quote from: Sebby on Jul 11, 2009, 10:58:17
Someone else had the same problem. If you're maxing out the upload bandwidth, then even when you try to download, it can't upload the small amount of data needed, hence everything grinds to a halt.

It was me Sebby. The problem was completely resolved in my case. I don't really know how but it it did involve a change of modem.

Tacitus · Jul 11, 2009, 16:15:33

Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 10:04:54
That's a shame, but I know other ISPs are doing that because of the cost benefits. Take a look at Newnet, David, they may suit your needs. Whatever you do, don't stop coming here.

Looking at the forums ADSL2 looks a whole pile of hurt wherever you go. The good thing about iDNet is that unlike the others they aren't keeping the whole cost advantages to themselves - they're giving some back to the customers in the form of additional bandwidth.

Ironically that may have been their undoing as it attracts a lot more new customers and, with the difficulties that WBC appears to bring, it's putting support under greater strain than they anticipated. They can't win.....

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 16:22:58

Sadly true, Tac.

BT can ruin another business and walk away without any liability.

Dopamine · Jul 11, 2009, 18:44:37

Quote from: Sebby on Jul 11, 2009, 10:58:17
Someone else had the same problem. If you're maxing out the upload bandwidth, then even when you try to download, it can't upload the small amount of data needed, hence everything grinds to a halt.

I understand that. However, both IDNet support and BT say that uploading should not significantly affect download speed, so if IDNet's systems are allowing a volume of upload so great as to destroy the ability to download, the answer is in their amending their systems, not in me fiddling at home. I've changed routers, used a test router sent to me by IDNet, used different machines and OSs, used separate machines to upload and download, done everything that can be expected of me, but the problem continues whilst they take several weeks "checking this hypothesis". Is it any wonder that I'm not impressed?

quandam · Jul 11, 2009, 19:00:16

Have to say that my speeds are not as they were just 3 months ago. A little disappointing to say the least. Something is not quite right

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 19:01:54

Can you be more specific, Q?

quandam · Jul 11, 2009, 19:19:55

Yes Rik

When I used the tester on DSL Zone I almost always came 'top' (or very close) of the readings. Now, my readings are well below average and many other ISP's are jumping over my head, easily. I know you (and others) will say that you can't rely on this particular test but overall tests show a decline in speeds. The speeds achieved are still OK but there has been an overall decline in my speeds.

The big picture is generally OK and manageable and I know I will be accused of 'What are you moaning about?' but I have seen a definite drop in speeds over the past 3 months. During the day I was always getting around 6-7Mb without a problem, now, sometimes during the day I barely get 1.5Mb.

As I say, everything is manageable but there has been a definite decrease in the 'usual' speeds obtained.

Rik · Jul 11, 2009, 19:20:58

Can you run a BT test, Q?

quandam · Jul 11, 2009, 19:25:39

Rik

Yes I can. My evening meal is about to be served

So first things first

Sebby · Jul 11, 2009, 23:54:07

Rik will understand, I'm sure.

Simon · Jul 12, 2009, 00:42:38

He must be on the desserts by now!

boysteve · Jul 12, 2009, 05:10:18

Quote from: Simon on Jul 12, 2009, 00:42:38
He must be on the desserts by now!

Perhaps he had to do the washing up as well

Gary · Jul 12, 2009, 08:12:34

Its sad that say O2's LLU and Be's work fine yet the implementation of adsl2+ by BT is a botched mess, My line at my old home line was O2 LLU and was great, good uploads, stable line, no mad profiling, it just worked. Sadly their access package does not, now if the big ISP's can get it right by putting equipment in exchanges, (not all are perfect I know Oranges LLU is not great) what the hell happened to BT, cost cutting and poor Chinese equipment that was known to have disadvantages and even security problems, its the same adage that gets us to spend more on IDnet spending more on quality. If you have a better quality devices at the exchange level then this simply would not have happened but like putting cheap oil in your car then complaining it runs badly later on, its just a false economy, and on such a scale its not ever going to get fixed I fear as the damage is done because the state of BT lines cannot seem to deal with the new service which is odd when other companies LLU seems to behave better, people should not have to be changing routers to match BT

it should work out of the box with companies like IDNet expecting this to generally work well with a few teething issues, not on the scale we have seen. The mess so far could do great damage and put strains on the original adsl max side eventually surely? People wanting to move back in then having failed speeds and migrating away as their profile remains a mess has to hurt pockets. IDnets purchase to get onto the adsl2+ wagon becomes a white elephant for them and puts great pressure on all concerned.

rireed3 · Jul 12, 2009, 09:32:25

I mostly agreee with Gary, but it's difficult to speculate on the details. A good example is the Huawei "security risk" often mentioned. The Register reported it this way:

QuoteAt January's meeting, ministers were told security advice given to BT has cut the risks to 21CN from malicious hackers but the unspecified measures would not mitigate built-in vulnerabilities. Intelligence officials reportedly said they could not offer specifics on a potential Chinese strike, as they had "only limited understanding of our adversaries' attack capability".

Since the warnings of the intelligence services are always based on secret information, they are often open to criticisms that they are political, protectionist in this case. In the same article, it was reported that the US Congress has blocked Huawei's acquisition of 3Com for the same security rationale. The Cold War dribbles on as a pretext for the economic competition between nations. Any foreign manufacturer could pose the same risk, but only China has one that our secret betters think "is too close to the military".

I personally would have preferred Fujitsu equipment in my exchange. My sentiment favours Marconi also, but the actual failure was that BT and the router manufacturers thought it was just fine to make me buy a router and then faff around for a week tracking down firmware (no longer public to punters) for the first one. They wouldn't put themselves out to anticipate this problem by testing and address it to our advantage.

All this is not the main problem. Gary points out a congestion trend that I know I have seen, and I also wouldn't bother about because my 60% througput is adequate for me. Now it has caused IDNet to lose a good, thoughtful customer who appreciated IDNet's support policies. I still say that David would be best served by LLU if he can get O2-Be. I have even seen Talk Talk LLU recommended recently has having improved.

I attach my DSL Zone speed test history graph. Most of the low points and some of the highs are backed up by speedtester.bt.com.

Edit: My profile has been 17000 for three weeks at least.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Steve · Jul 12, 2009, 09:45:11

Interested that you mentioned TalkTalk LLU as that's the only one available on my exchange (31/03/2010 rfs 21CN).

quandam · Jul 12, 2009, 09:53:37

Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 19:20:58
Can you run a BT test, Q?

Rik

Haven't forgot your request re BT Test, unable to get on at all, will keep trying.

Rik · Jul 12, 2009, 10:41:04

It's like that Q.

rireed3 · Jul 12, 2009, 11:19:05

Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 12, 2009, 09:45:11
Interested that you mentioned TalkTalk LLU as that's the only one available on my exchange (31/03/2010 rfs 21CN).

I just saw this mentioned also:
Opal, same LLU as Talk Talk

Thread was here:
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16626

Rik · Jul 12, 2009, 11:26:38

I wonder if that's a reaction to the poor name TT acquired.

Steve · Jul 12, 2009, 11:33:40

Thanks Richard, Line checker suggests 14.1mb download. I'll file it away , long term tie-ins are best avoided.

Glenn · Jul 12, 2009, 11:36:22

I've heard bad things about Opal at work, they signed an agreement recently to provide a service, now they say they can't do all of what they signed up to, without changing the specs in the contract.

quandam · Jul 12, 2009, 15:45:58

Rik

At long last here is the BT test result. Over the past couple of months or so daytime speeds have dropped dramatically. They were always rock steady around 6.5 to 7Mb virtually 24/7, this is not the case now

[attachment deleted by admin]

Rik · Jul 12, 2009, 15:49:31

That's badly awry, Q, let support have that test result in the morning and see what they suggest. It looks to me like you have a congested VP or are on a congested part of the central (re-booting the router will often cure that).

quandam · Jul 12, 2009, 15:52:00

Rebooted yesterday and the day before without any noticeable change

Have to say that it not always as bad as that, it differs greatly throughout the day, mostly it is manageable and not too dire.

Rik · Jul 12, 2009, 15:56:29

You need to let support know then, Q. Had it not been for the profile, I'd have been suggesting a stuck profile, but it's clearly not that.

quandam · Jul 12, 2009, 16:00:41

OK Rik

Thanks for the advice

Rik · Jul 12, 2009, 16:02:15

NP, keep us posted.