Does anyone know yet?

D-Dan · Jul 21, 2009, 13:14:01

If IDNet will be offering FTTC connections when the first 29 go live next year?

I haven't learned my lessons from being an early adopter of WBC, and can't wait to jump on the next bandwagon.

Steve

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 14:29:47

Haven't heard anything, Steve. If it's like WBC, IDNet will order next year and get in in 2012!

zappaDPJ · Jul 21, 2009, 15:21:13

I'd be surprised if IDNet didn't offer the service but they don't appear to be one of the 16 ISPs already involved: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4004-bt-speeds-up-fibre-rollout.html Having said that I've yet to find any one of these mysterious 16. I do know BT is offering people with various service providers a free 6 months trial subject to contract, my neighbour is one of those.

It seems to me there's a larger scale trial in progress as there's no pricing structure and all those on it appear to be getting it FOC. I'd assume if the trials are successful it will be rolled out to everyone on an FTTC exchange sooner rather than later as BT do appear to want to ramp up the delivery of this network.

I must admit I'm eager to find out more but information is hard to come by. I have spoken to IDNet about it but they didn't have anything concrete to offer.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 15:24:50

Or even fibrous.

zappaDPJ · Jul 21, 2009, 15:26:59

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 15:28:49

Sebby · Jul 21, 2009, 16:20:35

I thought that it was simply going to improve the quality of current lines, rather than being a new service...

zappaDPJ · Jul 21, 2009, 16:30:02

As BT are involved I'd say both points are highly debatable

D-Dan · Jul 21, 2009, 17:30:58

Quote from: Sebby on Jul 21, 2009, 16:20:35
I thought that it was simply going to improve the quality of current lines, rather than being a new service...

No - it will involve new fibre optic cabling from exchange to cabinet (the new cabinet being built alongside the existing one), with the last bit to your own still being copper. Connection speed will be dependant upon distance from the cabinet rather than the exchange, which in my case is about 200ft,

Steve

bobleslie · Jul 21, 2009, 17:33:21

Here's some information on FTTC.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:33:28

Put another way, BT are bringing the exchange to the cabinet. How many survive being vandalised, of course, is another issue.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:35:45

Quote from: bobleslie on Jul 21, 2009, 17:33:21
Here's some information on FTTC.

Time to invest in some new routers.

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 17:37:23

I bet BT don't test if they work with the equipment they install though

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:38:43

What interested me is that it's going to be an engineer install, much like the early days of ADSL. I wonder how long that will continue?

bobleslie · Jul 21, 2009, 17:39:04

Quote from: Rik on Jul 21, 2009, 17:35:45
Time to invest in some new routers.

and a clean pair of trousers.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:40:04

At 213m from the cabinet, if fibre ever reaches me, I will think all my Christmases have come at once, Bob.

bobleslie · Jul 21, 2009, 17:41:16

That far away, are you?

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 17:41:28

Quote from: Rik on Jul 21, 2009, 17:38:43
What interested me is that it's going to be an engineer install, much like the early days of ADSL. I wonder how long that will continue?

It cost me £100 in 2002/3 to get ADSL, the following month or so they went wires free, and they want more money

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 17:42:22

Apart from walking the streets to find the cabinet, is they anyway to get the distance?

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:42:42

Quote from: bobleslie on Jul 21, 2009, 17:41:16
That far away, are you?

Not if I can persuade them to move the cabinet.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:43:12

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 21, 2009, 17:42:22
Apart from walking the streets to find the cabinet, is they anyway to get the distance?

Probably not, Glenn. I was told by the engineer who installed my new line.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:43:44

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 21, 2009, 17:41:28
It cost me £100 in 2002/3 to get ADSL, the following month or so they went wires free, and they want more money

Given current prices, I reckon it's going to be £200 or so for activation.

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 17:46:18

I'm sure the last engineer I had visit, said my cabinet was in a manhole, I haven't noticed any on the estate, but then it is something that you don't 'see' even if you walk past one, they are just another part of the street furniture.

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:48:36

Manhole ones are best, they get vandalised less often.

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 17:52:15

But they fill with water

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 17:55:52

Swings and roundabouts.

zappaDPJ · Jul 21, 2009, 18:03:54

Quote from: Rik on Jul 21, 2009, 17:40:04
At 213m from the cabinet, if fibre ever reaches me, I will think all my Christmases have come at once, Bob.

Where I'm currently living, the distance from the back of my face plate to the cabinet is under 10m but that won't matter a jot if there's tennis on at Wimbledon. New balls please!

More seriously major sporting events are currently playing havoc with ISPs that haven't got the bandwidth to cope with it: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4009-online-cricket-and-golf-viewers-create-spike-in-skyplayer-traffic.html and since when did thinkbroadband become the BBC's policeman?

QuoteIt has been suggested that this traffic is mainly from sports fans watching live sports coverage whilst in the office--We would remind everyone that if you watch TV as it's broadcast, even through a PC, you need a TV License.

Glenn · Jul 21, 2009, 18:05:37

Zap, you may be 10m from a cabinet, but is it the one your phone is connected to?

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 18:08:45

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Jul 21, 2009, 18:03:54
More seriously major sporting events are currently playing havoc with ISPs that haven't got the bandwidth to cope with it: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4009-online-cricket-and-golf-viewers-create-spike-in-skyplayer-traffic.html and since when did thinkbroadband become the BBC's policeman?

Few have, Zap, as to provide that kind of bandwidth is uneconomic.

bobleslie · Jul 21, 2009, 18:16:23

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 21, 2009, 18:05:37
Zap, you may be 10m from a cabinet, but is it the one your phone is connected to?

That's the problem, isn't it?

There are at least 5 cabinets I could be connected to, and those are just the one's I've seen.

zappaDPJ · Jul 21, 2009, 18:22:55

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 21, 2009, 18:05:37
Zap, you may be 10m from a cabinet, but is it the one your phone is connected to?

It is Glen although the actual cable goes up to the eaves, across to a telgraph pole and down into the pavement before returning underground to the cabinet which in reality makes the line length more like 50m

I know that's where my line goes because that's always the first port of call when the BT engineers have gone to try and find a fault. The same cabinet also houses the fibre, it was put in very recently to accommodate a massive new housing development of luxury flats.

Everything including the pair from the top of the pole all the way back to the exchange was replaced and I've been told I'm on the new equipment which makes me wonder why my WBC connection is so wretched

Rik · Jul 21, 2009, 18:25:59

Because we are talking about BT, Zap.

Colin Burns · Jul 22, 2009, 03:40:31

well i suppose i can always wonder which one i will get first

Full Sync ADSL

ADSL 2
FTTC

think ill hope out for 8mb as i dowt i will ever see ADSL 2 anytime soon and probably never FTTC

kinmel · Jul 22, 2009, 06:49:10

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 21, 2009, 17:46:18
I'm sure the last engineer I had visit, said my cabinet was in a manhole

I never knew that, I wondered where the street cabinet was for our estate because the nearest above ground cabinet is about a mile away.

Now I know, it is in the BT manhole at the end of my drive

So it's 11metres to the router, but will they ever have enough fibre to reach here ?

Lance · Jul 22, 2009, 07:53:43

My line goes to a man-hole type thing (a square BT labled one) but I know that is only the junction box. It then goes from there to a cabinet about 400 yards away.

bobleslie · Jul 24, 2009, 11:28:22

Here's the first FTTC installation.

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 11:32:35

Not as impressive as I would have hoped, Bob.

bobleslie · Jul 24, 2009, 11:38:09

I didn't expect anything.

I expect that they'll 'manage' expectations, whilst they work out how to make some money out of the new technology.

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 11:38:57

Cynic.

bobleslie · Jul 24, 2009, 11:40:19

Hanging around here too much!

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 11:41:09

We do have that effect.

Gary · Jul 24, 2009, 11:51:03

Time to move to Paris or Japan I think

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 11:52:07

We'll come and find you.

Gary · Jul 24, 2009, 11:56:03

Quote from: Rik on Jul 24, 2009, 11:52:07
We'll come and find you.

Sebby · Jul 24, 2009, 12:58:04

I'm still finding this whole FTTC concept bizarre. Why not replace copper cabling from the exchange to the cabinet rather than running it alongside? I'm sure they coudl install some kind of digital to anlogue converter in the cabinet for the final stretch.

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 12:59:34

I thought that was what they were doing, in essence, Seb?

Sebby · Jul 24, 2009, 13:01:13

So did I, but if you think about it, it's engineer install, so it's not really what they're doing...

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 13:03:37

AFAIK, that's just to fit a better than average filter at the end of the last few metres of copper. I wonder how long before there will be alternatives to the BT router?

Sebby · Jul 24, 2009, 13:05:46

Ah, fair enough. I'm sure there'll be alternatives available, although it shouldn't be so much of an issue - we tend to use different routers now to get our lines stable, which hopefully won't be a problem in the future.

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 13:06:40

No, but I don't fancy being tied to BT managed hardware for too long.

Sebby · Jul 24, 2009, 13:06:59

zappaDPJ · Jul 24, 2009, 13:31:41

That's a pretty poor report from thinkbroadband and somewhat inaccurate. There have been FTTC connections to that exchange for some months. I believe it's one of three exchanges that have been trialling the technology prior to a larger scale rollout for a while.

Why are there no details of the new download speeds? The one piece of information everybody is champing at the bit for and he doesn't give it

Sebby · Jul 24, 2009, 13:33:46

I agree - it does seem like a major omission.

zappaDPJ · Jul 31, 2009, 14:25:37

Here's some data from one of the first FTTC trials. Looks like it's not all roses although the potential is clearly there.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/aaisp/3676774-fttc-stats.html

Quote27/07/09 06:51 32202.52 Kbps 1812.61 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

26/07/09 19:30 28086.88 Kbps 1737.21 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

26/07/09 05:45 33029.72 Kbps 1633.16 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 21:59 30796.78 Kbps 1698.36 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 19:28 5255.86 Kbps 1804.39 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 14:49 5256.39 Kbps 1750.68 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 14:35 5258.14 Kbps 1592.53 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 14:34 5257.14 Kbps 1765.76 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 08:42 31854.63 Kbps 1685.96 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 07:06 32608.02 Kbps 1741.24 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

25/07/09 00:09 28468.77 Kbps 1699.07 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

24/07/09 23:38 30255.95 Kbps 1674.87 Kbps x.x.x.x VDSL

I'd guess from the post that these are stats from the retail outlet that they have hooked up in which case I believe the cab is directly outside the shop and the shop is around half a kilometre from the Muswell Hill exchange. I know the area better than the back of my hand so I'm pretty sure that's correct.

Rik · Jul 31, 2009, 14:59:09

Profiles rear their ugly head again.

zappaDPJ · Jul 31, 2009, 15:11:54

They certainly do

Rik · Jul 31, 2009, 15:13:57

We all know they are not necessary, yet BT can get away with continuing to cripple the services they sell by using them. If they're going to use 5Mb profiles for fibre, they are, effectively guaranteeing they never have to supply the maximum bandwidth.