Low Throughput.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 16:27:14

Noise on the line caused by crosstalk or electrical interference. I've had exactly that same 3db jump on a new line, so can vouch that it does happen.

mist · Jul 26, 2009, 16:32:06

okay, so elimination already done 17070 line appears clear BUT intermittently have a sound of sea on the shore (follow that if you can) no hissing etc..BT say no line fault.
No change in anything electrical whatsoever in the house, ie no new equipment etc.
New ADSLnation filter on the only phone socket in use.

What is the failure rate on the BT fitted sockets as I seem to recall reading that they can go wrong, mine is 2 years old.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 16:36:40

Mine is 22 years old.

There's not really a lot to go wrong, anything can, but I don't think it's a common issue. The noise doesn't have to be in the house, it could be coming from a neighbour (anyone had Sky put in recently) or some development along the route of the cable. The quiet line test is no help in this kind of situation, unfortunately, you're trying to find noise in the MW band.

rireed3 · Jul 26, 2009, 16:43:43

I wouldn't suspect a non-filtered socket, but maybe a filter. Long flat-cable phone extensions also pick up all-spectrum noise.

The rising and falling hissing during Quiet Line Test is a symptom I once had on a much shorter line, and this was noise in all spectrums. It got worse to include scratching and popping. No one in BT could test or hear it until one side of the loop actually broke off in the exchange. Equipment in the exchanges have tie-pairs to connect lines and various devices, but I had a months long argument in which it became clear that BT's automatic tests don't reach everything there. Also, the voice support staff often can't hear the faults you can hear.

So this kind of intermittent is foisted onto the customer to prove, at the risk of multiple call-out charges, only refunded after proof.

The trick is to get the most efficient call-out process, so I defer to others on this particular organisational skill.

Richard

mist · Jul 26, 2009, 16:44:54

Inssider shows no new Sky anywhere. Plus I am rather rural and the cable follows a route with no developments etc.

Just hoping CS can sort it out tomorrow, a little while ago Brian said their was a 'battery error' on his tests which then seemed to clear after I replaced the ADSL cable at his suggestion which apparently can be causative (wear and tear) but he did say that could also be something else, it was just an initial elimination test which appeared to have cleared the fault. I just hope this isn't going to cost me for another BT engineer visit.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 16:46:23

Quote from: rireed3 on Jul 26, 2009, 16:43:43
The trick is to get the most efficient call-out process, so I defer to others on this particular organisational skill.

The only one I know, Richard, is to report that you can sometimes hear other peoples' conversations. This usually results in an E-side pair swap, but my not improve things, of course.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 16:47:28

Quote from: mist on Jul 26, 2009, 16:44:54
Just hoping CS can sort it out tomorrow, a little while ago Brian said their was a 'battery error' on his tests which then seemed to clear after I replaced the ADSL cable at his suggestion which apparently can be causative (wear and tear) but he did say that could also be something else, it was just an initial elimination test which appeared to have cleared the fault. I just hope this isn't going to cost me for another BT engineer visit.

They should be able to see if you've been getting a lot of errors.

Glenn · Jul 26, 2009, 16:50:58

I've had one or 2 errors in the 13 days $:-\$

FEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 3,660,359
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 158,496
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 140,697

mist · Jul 26, 2009, 16:53:58

Okay, Thank you, will await tomorrow and hope they can get my noise margin down again and a decent synch.

Just another thought, could any software errors cause this type of problem ?

mist · Jul 26, 2009, 16:55:13

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 26, 2009, 16:50:58
I've had one or 2 errors in the 13 days $:-\$

FEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 3,660,359
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 158,496
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 140,697

Where would I find those please on my Netgear DG834N ?

Glenn · Jul 26, 2009, 17:04:34

I don't know myself as I'm using a Speedtouch at the moment. You could look in the maintenance section, but I'm sure a Netgear user will be along shortly to help.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 17:10:42

Quote from: mist on Jul 26, 2009, 16:53:58
Okay, Thank you, will await tomorrow and hope they can get my noise margin down again and a decent synch.

It depends on why it was increased (assuming that my guess is correct). Getting margins down again can be difficult, BT tend to resist unless the line it absolutely free of errors.

QuoteJust another thought, could any software errors cause this type of problem ?

None that I can think of.

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 17:13:21

Quote from: mist on Jul 26, 2009, 16:55:13
Where would I find those please on my Netgear DG834N ?

I don't know for an N, and Kitz doesn't have anything either.

Steve · Jul 26, 2009, 17:20:38

Its similar to the DG834G v4 and the GT,enable debug and then the telnet command is # adslctl info --stats

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 17:21:56

Thanks, Steve.

Steve · Jul 26, 2009, 17:26:08

Just checked it works

adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8128 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Fast
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 11.9 27.0
Attn(dB): 22.0 13.5
Pwr(dBm): 19.8 12.3
Max(Kbps): 10720 1232
Rate (Kbps): 8128 448
G.dmt framing
K: 255(0) 15
R: 0 0
S: 1 1
D: 1 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 255 15
M: 1 1
T: 1 1
R: 0 0
S: 1.0000 1.0000
L: 2048 128
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 27532408 27532689
SFErr: 137 0
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 90 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 382513883 0
Data Cells: 90049909 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 124 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 12 0
AS: 468055

INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 1.75 1.75
delay: 0.25 0.25
OR: 32.00 32.00

Bitswap: 0 0

Total time = 1 days 10 hours 1 min 18 sec
SF = 27532408
CRC = 137
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 124
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 1 min 18 sec
SF = 2122230
CRC = 7
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 7
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 18 sec
SF = 4602
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5082319
CRC = 13
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 12
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52982
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Showtime Drop Reason: 0
Last Retrain Reason: 0
#
#

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 17:28:26

Nice clean line, Steve.

Steve · Jul 26, 2009, 17:33:12

The DG834N with latest firmware in my opinion works very well. I think the DGN2000 uses a similar chipset

Rik · Jul 26, 2009, 17:36:21

All I need is the nice clean line.

quandam · Jul 26, 2009, 17:37:25

mist

I do believe that you were pointed in the direction of IDNet by myself via the DSL Zone forum. I am so sorry you are having these problems with IDNet

I sincerely hope that your problems can be sorted soon and again, my apologies for putting you in this position

Good luck

dujas · Jul 26, 2009, 18:22:36

The DG834N is based on Broadcom BCM6358 chipset, whilst the DGN2000 uses the Broadcom BCM6348 (the processor is a tad slower in terms of Mhz).

mist · Jul 26, 2009, 20:28:18

Quote from: quandam on Jul 26, 2009, 17:37:25
mist

I do believe that you were pointed in the direction of IDNet by myself via the DSL Zone forum. I am so sorry you are having these problems with IDNet

I sincerely hope that your problems can be sorted soon and again, my apologies for putting you in this position

Good luck

No need to apologise Q, hopefully this will all soon be sorted out, will update tomorrow

Simon · Jul 26, 2009, 20:44:25

Many of us are in the position of having recommended IDNet to others. No one can see what's round the corner, so I don't think we should feel guilty if there are problems, which hopefully, IDNet will get sorted very soon.

bobleslie · Jul 26, 2009, 21:36:31

Besides, 9.9999 times out of 10 it's BT's fault.

Lance · Jul 26, 2009, 22:51:34

This isn't a problem as such though, and is purely down to the line between the user and the exchange. No matter what BT based ISP is being used, the same thing would have happened.

As it happens I've had just under 15 million FECs and 34,000 CRC errors in just of 12 hours uptime. And that's with the margin at 9db!