Help really needed.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Hi everyone, been connected to idnet for a few months now and I am starting to have a few problems with my connections. Ever since I got connected I was told I would be able to get at least 6mb connection (I am literally 100m from my exhange) but have never gotten above 3.5mb. Now I think that is primarily down to my speedtouch USB modemm first question is.....would buying a router finally get my connection up to or around the 6mb?

Also for the last few weeks I have been experiencing disconnections and drop outs on my connection VERY frequently, as well as the odd disconnection if the house phone rings (my modem is connected to an extension wire which runs about 5m down the stairs to the house phone). Is this also the setup as apposed to the connection itself? I'm beginning to think so.....

Lastly I would appreciate advice on what modem router to purchase, whether it makes a difference between 54mb or 108mb? I am also thinking on purchasing one of them XTE master faceplates because I was told they work alot better than the filters the ISP provide you with, is this true? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I am not throwing my money against the wall. Thanks in advance

[Nerval]

Hello Lloyd
1. No it shouldn't make that much of a difference changing to a router.  It would help to show your line stats for an estimate of what speed you should be getting.  You may live in the exchange, but your line could go 3 miles to get to you - it's not always as the crow flies.

2. Problems with phones interfering is normally down to the quality of your filters.  Those supplied by ISPs are usually rubbish and you need to rule out filter problems by getting decent ones such as the FX-1e ones here which are not really expensive.
You also need a filter on every telephone socket in use, including Sky.

3. Opinions vary about the use of the faceplate - some say it's worth changing, some not.
Try removing the existing faceplate and plugging your broadband  into the test socket underneath it to rule out internal wiring.

But the first thing I'd do is get decent filters.

[Rik]

Hi Lloyd

I agree with everything Nerv has told you, but would recommend a router. It may, or may not, give you more stability, but there's a chance it will. What I guarantee it will do is to free up your CPU. USB modems are quite heavy on CPU time, reduce power consumption on your machine and, above all, give you greatly enhanced security. You can pick up a decent one online for £30-50.

As to speed, don't trust what you've been told. Each line has very individual characteristics and, with Max, you get what you get. The checker said 3.5Mbps before I upgraded, in practice I get 2.5-3Mbps. As nerv says, a router will give you easy access to line stats, and we may be able to get your speed up armed with that.

Better filters will, hopefully solve most of your problems, but we can talk about wiring issues when we know your stats. As it stands, the symptoms you describe are most likely caused by a poor filter, and just possibly a poor phone.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated, but waited to reply until I purchased a router, which I now have. Its a netgear dg 834g 54mbps. So how do I go about posting the stats or information you requested? Thanks

Lloyd 

[Rik]

Log in to the router at http://192.168.0.1

It will come up on the status page, there are two buttons at the bottom, the left-hand one is marked Show Statistics. Click on that, the figures we need are the lower group. I've marked them here for my lousy line!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[stevelondon]

Go to here HERE scroll down to your router and click on the link it will bring your line stats up

[Rik]

Mine's prettier Steve.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Cheers guys, here they are, although on the speed test this morning I am getting no more than 30bks

Connection Speed 6752 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 3 db
Noise Margin 2147483647 db 26 db

[Rik]

There's something badly wrong there, Lloyd.

For an attenuation of 15db, you should have plenty of noise margin. In fact, despite what it looks like, you have a negative noise margin, bordering on a re-sync. My guess is that you re-sync quite a lot, and that your IP profile is low as a result.

From all that's been said before, your wiring and/or filters have to be suspect. Disconnect everything else in the house - do the figures improve? If they do, it's filters or attached devices. If they don't, it's wiring - either external or, more probably, internal.

Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the type where the bottom 2/3rds is detachable? If so, remove the screws and pull off the face plate, it will reveal the test socket. Connect your router there - if you can move the computer. If the problems go, your wiring is the issue. BT will sort any problems, but they will charge if it's your internal wiring, ie the issue is after the test socket.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Ok here are the results with everything else disconnected and only the new filter netgear provided and the phone line plugged in.....
Connection Speed 7520 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 3 db
Noise Margin 15 db 28 db

Don't seem to be getting better stats but the noise margin looks better, will have a look at the wireing later when i have more time, I do have one of them nat5 sockets so will be able to investigate further.

[Rik]

That change in noise margin says there's a fault on the system somewhere, perhaps an unfiltered device, eg a Sky box?

You definitely need to investigate, preferably starting at the test socket, which will tell you if it's wiring or devices.

Remember not to force a re-sync more than 9 times an hour, 10 or more will be seen by the line management software as instability and will push your profile down.

[Lance]

You might have dodgy filter on one of the sockets as well which would be almost as bad as no filter.

[Rik]

Good point, Lance. I must be more complete in my answers.

[Thar]

Just to add to the good advice from the others. I would think the 5m extension wire had a lot to do with the problems you've been having.

Your target noise margin is probably high...probably 15 and once this comes down you'll easily get the full 8 Meg sync...I do and you have a way better line than me.

With the Netgear you now have the option of running wirelessly. Can you not take advantage of this and locate the router near the master socket permanently and connect wirelessly to your PC. Shame you didn't get a router that could benefit from the DMT tools tweaking abilities but too late now.

Check if that you only have wires 2 and 5 connected to the back of the removeable faceplate. Hopefully your speed should improve in 3 days when your profile picks up.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Pardon the ignorance but what do you mean by a re-sync? Also how do I tell how many I am doing a day, sorry but my knowledge on all this is really limited.

[Rik]

A re-sync happens when your modem and the exchange lose contact, most commonly it's caused by line noise.

The router will log re-synchs and also PPP session outages. You can tell the difference by looking for the line "Loss of sync". That might sound obvious, but the rest of the logging is the same for both types of interruption, eg LCP down, LCP is allowed to come up etc.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Ok after a little tinkering and resetting I seem to be getting a much faster and stable connection, this morning I was well into the 4200kbps and tonight at peak times I registered this speed, so does this mean fingers crossed the problem has been solved? Oh btw my stats are still as shown in my last post....cheers for everyones help, cracking service all round.

[Nerval]

Not followed the whole thread I'm afraid, but with a connection speed over 7Mb, you should be going faster than that.  May be that problems have temporarily lowered your profile speed.

You should run the BT Speedtest which now is working, to get your Profile. 

[lloyd-h-jones]

Ok my profile is 6000kbps. Which as you say is considerably faster, little more tinkering needed I feel.

[Nerval]

Sync rate of 6816 - 7391 = Bras Profile of 6000

So your profile is right for your sync speed.  Perhaps it hadn't gone up when you ran the test.  My profile is 5000 and I get 4.7 or 4.8 in speedtests (normally) so you should be getting  mid 5s in a test, all else being equal.  You will never actually get 6 in real life or in a speed test as the Profile is your theoretical limit.

If you try it at busy times such as in the evening though, it will be a lot less as the network generally is busy.

[lloyd-h-jones]

Ok, and thanks for everyones patience, as I am now beginning to learn alittle about all this lol. I have plugged the filter directly into the test socket on the nat5 plate, and I am seeing an instant jump right up into the 5000's so that tells me filter and socket wireing are fine, and when I plug it into the normal phone socket it dips back to 4000/4500, so my guess is its my internal house wireing that is loosing me the extra few hundred ks?

[Nerval]

if you mean a jump in speedtest results, you can't go on that.  You need to check your sync speed in both cases.  If that drops consistently on the end of your extension, then you need to run new wiring to the extension.  If it doesn't then your wiring is OK.
Speedtest results are notoriously fickle and can't be used to show much at all.

[RJM]

This is a chart that will give ideas for speeds & profiles:-

Sync speed (incr 32kb stages) IP profile Max Throughput speed

From                  To         
               
288 kbps       544 kbps      250    Up to 0.25 Mbps
576 kbps     1120 kbps      500    Up to 0.5 Mbps
1152 kbps    1696 kbps    1000    Up to 1 Mbps
1728 kbps    2240 kbps    1500    Up to 1.5 Mbps
2272 kbps    2816 kbps    2000    Up to 2 Mbps
2848 kbps    3392 kbps    2500    Up to 2.5 Mbps
3424 kbps    3968 kbps    3000    Up to 3 Mbps
4000 kbps    4512 kbps    3500    Up to 3.5 Mbps
4544 kbps    5088 kbps    4000    Up to 4 Mbps
5120 kbps    5664 kbps    4500    Up to 4.5 Mbps
5696 kbps    6208 kbps    5000    Up to 5 Mbps
6240 kbps    6784 kbps    5500    Up to 5.5 Mbps
6816 kbps    7360 kbps    6000    Up to 6 Mbps
7392 kbps    7936 kbps    6500    Up to 6.5 Mbps
7968 kbps    8096 kbps    7000    Up to 7 Mbps
8128 kbps                     7150    Up to 7.15 Mbps

[lloyd-h-jones]

Cheers guys, sync speeds have stayed consistant both in the test socket and normal socket so will just leave it now for a few days and just see what happens.