test router stats

[coreservers]

have installed the test router and forced a re sync.
snr now up to what it says below

only been in an hour though

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 1059 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.4 db
Noise Margin 26.4 db 8.8 db

[Rik]

You must have synced at a very noisy time.

[coreservers]

the wife was shouting at me 

[Rik]

 

[coreservers]

seems attenuation is creeping up from 41 last week to over 43. that should remain stationary I thought, unless the tectonic plates in dalkeith are pushing me further from the exchange

[Glenn]

Mine rises from 59 - 62db dependant on the time of year and weather conditions

[Rik]

Plus, different router will give different figures (heck, my 2700 even gives two!).

[rireed3]

If the line's any good, that noise margin should be steady and it won't re-sync by itself.

Noise margins don't 'need time to settle'.  If the noise margin is making 4 db changes or more, something on the line is changing, and I'd say the router has been eliminated as the problem.

Richard

[Sebby]

Agreed, Richard. I find it annoying when people are told to let things settle.

[rireed3]

 

[Rik]

To be fair, BT won't do a thing during the fatuous 10 day training period.

[rireed3]

I suppose you could take the view that they've done quite enough already 

[Sebby]

To be fair, BT won't do a thing during the fatuous 10 day training period.

Which is a farce, given that the situation doesn't change during the training period. If you have a bad line, you have a bad line. The noise margin will shoot up to 15dB, but the chances are that things will remain unstable.

[Rik]

I know, you know, BT don't care.

[coreservers]

after a further re-sync. I think the belkin router is part of the issue
BT speed test crapped out so speed IO was the next and it's up over 4mb

[rireed3]

after a further re-sync. I think the belkin router is part of the issue
BT speed test crapped out so speed IO was the next and it's up over 4mb

For us to guess a little better, you have to tell us what the new router's stats (down sync rate, down noise margin, errors, sync time connected) have been doing today.

Richard

[coreservers]

well it seems to have "settled" down again 

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3072 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1059 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2324 kbps


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 1059 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.4 db
Noise Margin 24.6 db 9.1 db


the downstream snr varies quite a bit. I'm gonig to try changing the cablign internally today (make sure there's no bellwire etc.) will see what that does, then I can eliminate internal issues. 

[rireed3]

At last report, you were using the test socket.  That's the best way to eliminate internal issues, as when you unscrew the bottom half and pull it away it disconnects all your house phone wiring and gives you a direct connection to the line outside the house.  Even if you are not using the extension wiring, if it's connected it can pick up noise.

You didn't report any errors or the time the sync has been up, but it looks like this is the same sync you had yesterday, including the noise margin, so a bit confusing about the speed.io speedtest (I don't trust the speed.io speedtest).

Also, if the 24db down noise margin is varying, please say between which values it is varying.

Richard

[rireed3]

I'm away for the day -- I'm sure others will pitch in

8)

[Rik]

Have a good day, Richard. 

[coreservers]

I'm really nto sure where to go now, or what to do.
changed practically everything,  still got line profile of 2500 steady speed of 2345, SNR varies between 21-26db

downloads are ok I suppose, but I'm down 75% on what I had before. and paying slightly more for it.  I really am at a loss as to where to take it

[Rik]

What do IDNet say?

[coreservers]

Not heard since anything since 30th when they were sending the terst router, i've mailed the stats, including the 4mb anomaly. but not heard a thing

[rireed3]

Without current information about re-syncs, test socket, and errors, I cannot speculate further on why your noise margin is so high, robbing you of connection speed.

I leave you in the capable hands of forum and IDNet experts.

Richard

[Rik]

IDNet don't have an email pending from you, Alan, what address did you use?

Do you have your line stats from Sky days?

[coreservers]

I'll resend it. never took the line stats with sky. could never get teh bt testeer to run properly with (macaddress)@bt.com. you also knew that at 4pm you were gonig to drop right down to 384k, as they (and BT) used massive traffic shaping for their massively oversold service. why I left. I hope that's not going to be used as an excuse. "no proof of what you got on sky, therefore no investigation". I trust it wont. but we are nearly 3 weeks into my account shift, or is it two weeks, i've lost count, and frankly it's getting a bit depressing now. And still no proper service. I just really want an answer and a fix.     

[Rik]

The service you have is spot on, the problem is your target NM. NM is about the wiring between the router and the exchange, including your internal wiring. That's where ISPs start to struggle as BT can say 'no fault' at the speeds you are getting.

[coreservers]

so basically, i'm up the preverbial creek. (not meant to sound annoyed). I get 5,5mb, then BT completely screw up a migration, after which I only get 2,5mb, and suddenly it's my fault. i really have to consider my future with IDnet. if this is all I'm going to get. The once it did sync on the non rebuilt circuit, it synced at 7.8mb, then the circuit stopped working, they rebuilt it and wham 2.5mb and a massive SNR increase.


It's not been a happy stay so far, and it seems BT are intent on angering as many of idnet's customers as possible. just looking at other posts.

[Rik]

I agree with you, BT are a complete and utter pain. The problem for IDNet, or any ISP, is that BT have pretty much the final word. I'll see if I can find your FTR, but my guess is that it's been set at a little over 2Mb, in which case BT won't accept a fault on the line. Back shortly...

[coreservers]

utterly disheartning. 2.5mb broadband on a line attenuation of 42db, is absoultely pathetic. oh but this is britain, nothing works here

[Rik]

It takes a while to get the FTR for WBC, so I can't give you a definitive answer yet. The problem is that you've had a pair and line card swap, which can result in improved speeds or worse speeds, it's a bit of a lottery.

[rireed3]

I'll resend it. never took the line stats with sky. could never get teh bt testeer to run properly with (macaddress)@bt.com. you also knew that at 4pm you were gonig to drop right down to 384k, as they (and BT) used massive traffic shaping for their massively oversold service. why I left. I hope that's not going to be used as an excuse. "no proof of what you got on sky, therefore no investigation". I trust it wont. but we are nearly 3 weeks into my account shift, or is it two weeks, i've lost count, and frankly it's getting a bit depressing now. And still no proper service. I just really want an answer and a fix.    

No, but since IDNet, you have posted these on 23 Jul:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8336 kbps 445 kbps
Line Attenuation 40 db 11 db
Noise Margin 3 db 20 db

Big thanks to Miriam, Brian Tim and James, for sticking with it and my tantrums  angel. lets hope it stays up. BT engineer was great and honest, got his mobile for future issues.

And these on 24 Jul:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8336 kbps 445 kbps
Line Attenuation 40 db 11 db
Noise Margin 8 db 20 db

Then something started to go wrong on 26 Jul (no router stats on these):

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 7291 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2066 kbps

and 27 Jul (no router stats again):

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 5749 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2091 kbps

on 28 Jul (still no router stats)

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 4539 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2075 kbps

At my insistence, on 28 Jul, you "had to hunt for" router stats that looked quite different from those you provided on 24 Jul.  Did you change routers before IDNet's test one?:

Operation Data / Defect Indication:
Operation Data
Operation Data
Upstream
Downstream

Noise Margin
16 dB
13 dB

Attenuation
43 dB
--- dB

Notice nothing in downstream attenuation.

connection status is showing as "showtime"?

Had to hunt for the hidden page on the belkin G router

Edit before the last quote -- I know you changed to IDNet's test router, but I meant before that.

[coreservers]

I changed to the belkin G before getting the test router on teh 24th, as I had no web access. due to a problem with an unlocked huawei router.

that's why teh stat layout looked different. but there is no difference in speeds between teh belkin and netgear, just easier to read.

[rireed3]

What does "due to a problem with an unlocked huawei router"  have to do with "between teh belkin and netgear"?

[Rik]

Core, your FTR is 4556. If you can provide IDNet with a number of BT tests showing speeds below this, they can take it up with BT for you.

[coreservers]

sorry Rireed, misread teh post.

I had bought for me the Belkin router on teh 25th July, which is when I put fitted and configured it. I had to look around for the correct command to access the router stats.
But only changed to the IDnet test router on Friday 31st.

The huawei was the router that was in when the line was fixed on the 24th, it could sync but not see out to the internet. The stats on teh 23rd of July were using an unlocked netgear router that had a dsl light stuck on amber, and was teh connection that only lasted a few hours. they then, on the 24th rebuilt the circuit, that's when the speed began to die.

[coreservers]

I've now mailed as many bt speed tests and stats from both their test router and the Belkin G. we;ll see what occurs from that

[rireed3]

sorry Rireed, misread teh post.

I had bought for me the Belkin router on teh 25th July, which is when I put fitted and configured it. I had to look around for the correct command to access the router stats.
But only changed to the IDnet test router on Friday 31st.

The huawei was the router that was in when the line was fixed on the 24th, it could sync but not see out to the internet. The stats on teh 23rd of July were using an unlocked netgear router that had a dsl light stuck on amber, and was teh connection that only lasted a few hours. they then, on the 24th rebuilt the circuit, that's when the speed began to die.

That explains a lot of what I missed in your threads.  I guess it's a bad break similar to what some of us have had when we switched to WBC, but yours was complicated by two previously locked routers  .  It looks to me like BT have failed on even the current line.  I think the IDNet test router is the best bet to leave connected right now, preferably in the test socket, but not if it means fiddling before this is resolved.

If I understand FTR (Fault Threshold Rate) correctly, it's 70% of the lowest sync in your 10-day training period, so 4556 would reflect a lowest sync of around 6508.

If BT take action, make sure you find out if they are going to start another training period, as they might if they give you a different pair or exchange-line equipment.  Then you'll know to leave the hookup well alone and running for 10 days plus, assuming a good sync.

Richard

[coreservers]

well things may improve. got the following from support

The connection speed for your line is currently 9029k, as long as your
router is connected to your master BT socket and the connection remains
stable, the IP profile should update over the next 24 - 48 hours.

i'll see when I gt home tonight

[rireed3]

Excellent news  

Don't forget:

make sure you find out if they are going to start another training period

If you are in training again and you can keep that sync going for 10 days, your Fault Threshold Rate would rise from 4556 to 6320.  That would make it much easier to get BT involved in future.

Richard

[coreservers]

well it was better last night, despite an early fright, when I couldnt see the internet, but that was down to teh previous nights fault. initially router was sync'ed at just over 9mb, but had to reboot to get internet access and it re-sync'ed at 8447 with an up of 1047 my SNR has dropped to 5.9 - 6.2 down and 8 up

BT speedtest showed an ip profile of 8447 and a throughput of 7150.  still the same this morning. I reckon it'll settle to 5.5 -6.5 with my attenuation of 43db

[Rik]

Once again, a profile that's not on BT's official list. I think they're making this up as they go along.

[rireed3]

Looks excellent 

You can save taking the risk of re-booting in the situation where you're synced, but unhooked from IDNet.  In your router pages there will be a 'connect/disconnect to internet' function.  You can just 'connect' rather than disturb your sync.

Sounds like great stats.   That 5-6 db should be the best noise margin to get the maximum stable sync.  During my 10 days, after about 7 or 8, DLM or something/someone took notice of some extra errors from interference and re-synced me.   I wound up with slightly different stats, but stayed synced thereafter and with less errors.  I haven't had to touch anything since then.  I sometimes turn off during bad thunderstorms just because of b****y DLM.

Richard

[coreservers]

ah well it was good while it lasted
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 1080 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.4 db
Noise Margin 26.8 db 8.6 db

back there again, apparently my router (idnet test router) instigated a reboot, when no-one was in and we're back where we started, BT are now claiming my line has always struggled..... Lies all lies.

Not a power out, pc not rebooted, not a thunderstorm, been dry here for nearly a week. I think it's all to do with this circuit BT supposedly "fixed" 10 days ago, but 3 weeks into my new broadband service I'm still struggling to get a reliable service, all because BT screwed up to start with.

[Rik]

In a way, it has since they messed up the migration, which may be as far back as they are looking. 

[coreservers]

but surely even  if it reboots the SNR should not shoot up from 6.7 to 26.8?

[Rik]

No, it should only go to 15db at the time, but the noise present at the time of the resync may then disappear, leaving a higher noise margin than your target. On a minor scal, I'll often see a 10db margin after a 9db re-sync.

[coreservers]

I think it's time I moved this on. time to try ofcom and otelo I think. I've also gone straight to Dan moss at BT. I had stable if throttled BB with sky, only since this incompetent migration by BT have I had troubles. I'm now dying down to 1800k.

[rireed3]

ah well it was good while it lasted

The details of what they say happened between 0823 and 1847 would be interesting.

Did your router record only one re-sync?  I wouldn't say the router did it, necessarily.

BT are now claiming...

Did you already speak to support?  Clearly your 'always' struggling began with BT action three weeks ago.  If all that happened on one re-sync, you can't take no for an answer.

I know what I'd do, but I have alternatives.

Ofcom and Otelo won't help, but it may later be useful to have filed a complaint.

Richard

[coreservers]

support claim my router rebooted at 5.30pm, which is odd, as it didnt. the lan uptime is 27hours the wan uptime is only 2.45. So the wan rebooted not the router. suggesting this circuit at the exchange fell over again.
you'd think someone somewhere could get it right in 3 weeks, but it seems not, and I'm rapidly beginning to think IDnet cant help either. bear in mind it's on their netgear router.

Is this becoming a general state of affairs or am I being singled out for particularly appalling treatment. seems if it goes right it's fine, but if it goes wrong theres very little can actually be done on any side.

[rireed3]

So the wan rebooted not the router.

That's called a 're-sync'.

Quite.  All they can see is that there was a re-sync at 5:30.  If support used the terminology "router rebooted", someone should give a little education on terminology.

What I meant was do you have still in the router information a count of WAN re-syncs including that one.  Many would explain the big noise margin jump as a target margin increase.  Only one (maybe a count of two, one for the first sync - depends on the router) is pretty definitely either a loooooong shot of noise, like 5 minutes, or bad equipment.

[coreservers]

cant seem to find that info, however when I came home tonight, I had to use the disconnect\re-connect to see teh internet, as it had lost that connectivity.

[Rik]

All I can say is that David migrated because of WBC issues, and his new ISP has not been able to resolve them yet either. My own feeling is that BT have launched WBC long before it was ready, long before they had trained sufficient staff in it and long before they had tested their systems for handling orders and issues.

[coreservers]

it gets even better.
we've now lost all our internet connectivity AGAIN!
and now have a lovely rythmic pulsing in hte background on the phone. someone is really taking the p$$$ out of me

[Rik]

I think BT are in the business of sabotage nowadays. I take it you've let support know?

[coreservers]

I have but i'm a work, and have just had to take my wife through re-syncing a router, got connecvtivity back, but this is droppnig daily now and everytime my speed goes, now down to 1.5mbs.

[Rik]

Sometimes it feels like we, and the ISPs, live in a state of perpetual war with BT.

[coreservers]

well sync rate im proved, but ip profile and thruput are still woeful.

Your DSL connection rate: 6777 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2291 kbps
Connection Speed 6777 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.5 db
Noise Margin 13.4 db 11.9 db

[Rik]

That's just going to take time, I'm afraid.

[coreservers]

ah well we'll see how long before a re-sync pushes it back down again (not that I'm being cynical or anything) 

[coreservers]

been 3 days now, at just over 5mb with a line profile of 5500 and a dsl sync rate of 6777. 

[Rik]

  indeed.

[coreservers]

SNR been sitting at 13.8-14.5 no spikes

[Rik]

Now all you need is a period of stability to get that back down to normal levels.

[coreservers]

well you know how we were praying for stability, well Uh Uh. no cigar, came in tonight, couldnt see the internet nor download mail to outlook (internet explorer cannot display the web page, so Went to the router and used the disconnect\conect rather than power it down.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 6458 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1016 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3252 kbps

2mb off my connection. This is the crappest service around (not IDnet, but BT incometent idiots). So am I just expected to watch my connection die again, or wait for openreach engineers to "fix" it for the 7th time.

WAN PPPoA 6147 10799 0 1780 43127 00:05:26
LAN 10M/100M 687499 446197 0 1815 189 119:57:46


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6458 kbps 1016 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.6 db
Noise Margin 13.7 db 9.2 db

[Rik]

I think they send an engineer to the exchange each day to fiddle with something. 

[coreservers]

But where do we as IDnet's customer's go. we keep hearing IDnet are having an escalation meeting with BT and the likes, but lets face it BT send a mouthpiece, who'll say things like "going forward" and "synergy". And then wont do anything. they care about money that is BT's sole aim in life. the end customer, just a cash machine to them.

[Rik]

That's the problem. We either have faith that IDNet will keep on the case until it's resolved or we migrate. To judge by David's results so far, the one WBC migration we know about, AAISP haven't been able to resolve the problems yet either.

[coreservers]

which is why I've stayed so far, but it's not been a happy experience yet. my only alternative is llu talktalk adn I just cant face that.

[Dopamine]

"The strength of our synergy going forward using blue-sky thinking from the get go is that we will modify end user expectation to ensure satisfaction."

Translated - Let the customers complain. There's nowhere better for them to go, so they'll eventually give up complaining.

[coreservers]

I'm a fifer, we never give up till we get good value.

ran a speedtest.net, speed still falling

[rireed3]

I got one of those a few minutes ago and I sync at 19000 kbps

I got no sync worries, but you do.  We all have the throughput problem.

Richard

[coreservers]

Was chatting to a BT engineer this morning, they provide hardware cover on the site I provide IT support for. He told me that his colleagues that are working on exchanges, have had at most 2 days classroom training on WBC and 21cn. with no "on the job" training. and it's an almost completely different way of setting up circuits. Apparently some directors decided it was time to roll it out, as it might have cost more money to fully test it.
I quote
"it's like trying to attach a modern phone to a 1950's exchange at the moment, it was never gonig to work fully".
So much that unless you get a good engineer, they just set up the circuits the way they've always done, and finish at the alloted time whether it's working or not.

[Rik]

That fits the pattern which is beginning to appear. It looks like untrained engineers are making the original circuits and, if you're unlucky, they do it wrong and fail to test properly (probably because they don't know any better. Then, you have to wait for someone who does know what they're doing to be assigned to re-build the circuit. There's at least three, probably more, cases in the forum right now where that's what's happening.

[Simon]

It's absolutely ridiculous.  This should be brought out in the media, and BT dragged over the coals, imo.   

[Rik]

It should, they should.

[coreservers]

well they found a fault on my exchange and we lost the phone for most of the day, all back agai, and guess what...............
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 5966 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1038 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3703 kbps

Connection Speed 5966 kbps 1038 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 21.5 db
Noise Margin 15.0 db 8.7 db

They've raised the SNR to 15 and lowered my profile again from 5500 where it's been for 3 days to 4000.

So they fix hte phone and knacker the broadband again

[Rik]

IDNet may be able to get the NM reset manually in the circumstances.