Just upgraded to ADSL2 but can't connect

[silverblade]

Upgrade completed today, but my modem seems to still be connecting at 8mbps (ie, my old adsl max speed). Seems to sync but not against any adsl2 modulation settings...

And I can't actually connect to Idnet.

I thought by upgrading my connection is physically moved from one piece of kit to another at the exchange.

Which makes me wonder if idnet have turned off my adsl max login but bt have not moved my connection over? (I'm just guessing here)

The modem is a Linksys ADSL2MUE running the latest RouterTech firmware (so not the default Linksys one)

Is this likely to fix itself or do I need a new modem/router? If I need new kit, any recommendations?

I prefer something I can fiddle around with, eg decent firewall and such.

[coreservers]

sounds familiar. I was off for a week after my migration, before BT admitted they's screwed up. trouble is a lot of the exchange engineers, dont seem to know how to set it up properly. see if you can get idnet to send you a test router as well

[dujas]

AFAIK the move is a physical change to different exchange hardware, has the upstream sync speed changed at all? An upstream speed other than 448 or 832 kbps would indicate you are on ADSL2+.

Unfortunately as some of the 'stickied' posts on this forum will attest to, there is a varied assortment of issues that can occur in the transition from ADSL Max to WBC ADSL2+, so at this stage it's probably best to get in contact with support and let them work out what's going wrong, hopefully it's something simple

[Simon]

 

Sorry, but I can't add any more to what has been said.  I assume you've rebooted the router?  Unfortunately, IDNet is on 'emergency only' support till Monday, but if you ring and report that you've got no service, hopefully someone will attend to it sooner.

[onerob]

Hi. I had this exact same problem, having just switched to IDNet.

I phoned this morning and the guy told me that there has been a bug which meant that some people were issued with incorrect usernames. He told me to change the last digit of my username from '7' to '5'. Having adjusted this on my router, I was connected within a minute.

[silverblade]

Hi, thanks for replies so far.

First thing I did was reboot the modem, then tried power off and on again.

Eventually I managed to get latest RouterTech firmware and flash that onto the modem.

Problem seems to be it happily syncs with modulation set to ADSL_G.dmt even when I choose MULTI_MODE. Doesn't sync at all when set to ADSL_2plus.

Upstream is showing as 832kbps and downstream 8128kbps. So by the look of things we're still hooked up to the old kit at the exchange?

How would I report no service on the weekend?

[Simon]

Call 01462 476556 and leave a message.  How are you connecting at the moment to post on here?

[silverblade]

Posting on here using my mobile phone (htc magic). Also used this to download the firmware earlier. Can't use it as a modem for a PC sadly.

[Simon]

How do you find the phone?  I've been looking at the Touch Pro 2 and Touch HD.  How much Google influence is there on the Android system?

[Rik]

Upgrade completed today, but my modem seems to still be connecting at 8mbps (ie, my old adsl max speed). Seems to sync but not against any adsl2 modulation settings...

Hi and welcome to the forum. Did you get a completion email from IDNet? If so, it does sound like BT screwed up the physical change at the exchange (not for the first time ).

[Rik]

I phoned this morning and the guy told me that there has been a bug which meant that some people were issued with incorrect usernames. He told me to change the last digit of my username from '7' to '5'. Having adjusted this on my router, I was connected within a minute.

Welcome to the forum, Rob. If all else fails, it's also worth trying gw6, rather than gw5 or gw7.

[Rik]

Afterthought, Silverblade. If you're connected to a Huawei MSAN, the router might be part of the problem. Any chance you could borrow a different make? If you can get one, a Netgear would be the best bet.

[silverblade]

Hi Rik,

I didn't receive a notification email, no... But whilst at work yesterday I checked my idnet package details a couple of times and did see it change from ADSL2 "no" to "yes". From that point on the modem and the exchange decided that they were no longer friends.

I was informed itd take up to 5 working days for BT to switch, yesterday was day 5.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone who is on an ADSL2 service. So if it can be confirmed that the upgrade has gone all OK then I will go and buy a new router/modem.

I did have some issues when I first set up the connection whereby BT reported our number to idnet as being invalid, which took several phone calls to them before they realised the number needed a zero on the end (dialling worked with or without this). So I don't know if the engineer doing the work may have had some trouble identifying the right cable to unplug or something equally as trivial...

Are there any remote tests to see what my line is connecting to? And if its trying to log in using adsl max still?

My username suffix is gw5 and I'm guessing that will not change.

Simon - htc magic is quite cool. Onscreen keyboard can be a bit clumsy, sometimes. I can't really work out how "google ish" Android is... I find it enjoyable to use though and had been eager to get an Android powered phone for a while.

[Rik]

Yes, the line can be tested remotely and, if you call the out of hours number, James will get back to you. The fact you haven't had the completion email worries me slightly. That suggests that BT may not have signed off on the job.

[silverblade]

Seems a pretty poor show to break something on a Friday and leave it like that over a weekend!

I'll call in a bit, thanks for the help so far.

[Rik]

BT did the same to me when I joined IDNet, cut me off from Nildram but forgot to connect me to IDNet. Luckily, that was a Thursday, so it was sorted before the weekend.

[silverblade]

Ok I called 01462 476556 but I just get a constant ringing. Did someone forget to turn on the voicemail or is nobody there right now?

[Rik]

Try 0800 701 2000. That's working for me. If you want a geographic number, it's 01462 476555.

[silverblade]

I get "Sorry, but the users mailbox can't accept more messages" after it tells me to leave a message...

[Rik]

I've had a word with Simon Davies, you should be able to get through shortly. Meantime, bang off an email to support@idnet.net and mark it urgent.

[Ann]

silver, you're confusing me and maybe others with your terminology.  As I understand it ADSL2 is the Max product and ADSL2+ is the newer product.  So I'm guessing you're talking about +.

Can someone confirm the terminology (or correct me)? 

[Rik]

TBH, Ann, I'm not sure as I've seen varying descriptions. The only certainty I have is that ADSL2+ is WBC.

[silverblade]

Apologies for the confusion. When I say ADSL max I mean 8mbit connection. When I say ADSL2 I'm referring to 25mbit connection.

Rik I just sent a support mail from my phone, I have no way of marking its importance though. Fairly basic mail client.

[Rik]

OK. As I said, I've alerted Simon Davies, the MD, to the phone problem, so it might be worth giving that another try now. I'll send an urgent email alerting support to this thread in the meantime.

[dujas]

ADSL Max = ADSL1 (ITU G.992.1 or G.DMT), WBC = ADSL2+ (ITU G 992.5).

[rireed3]

ADSL supports the Max product.  It's sometimes called ADSL1.

ADSL2 goes up to 12 MBps.

ADSL2+ goes up to 24 MBps.  I often see people leave off the +, like calling SNR Margin just SNR.

Here's a Wikipedia link, in case you really want to get into this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_digital_subscriber_line

Richard

[Rik]

Is there an ADSL2 as such, Dujas?

[Rik]

Or, thanks, Richard.

[Rik]

The phone is now accepting messages again, Silverblade. 

[silverblade]

Message left.

A thought - would an ADSL2 modem work with ADSL2+?

[Rik]

Not necessarily. Whereabouts in the country are you?

[Rik]

James is on your case, Silverblade, he's looking at the BT systems right now, but immediate thoughts are that the job has been botched by BT.

[silverblade]

I'm in Newbury.

Got a call from James - he says the mapping/settings have been updated but it looks like BT haven't jumpered my line so its still connected to the DSLAM (if I understand correctly).

So, as I suspected I guess! I wouldve thought it be hard to overlook that... seems a pretty crucial part of the process to me!

[Rik]

There seem to be some (a lot?) of engineers who haven't been trained properly on WBC. Does James think he can get anything done over the weekend?

[silverblade]

Oh that doesn't sound too encouraging lol - maybe I should've waited for them to be better trained

James mentioned that there are only a few BT engineers working on weekends, but if its something simple it should be possible to sort over the weekend.

Apparently I should be able to get connected with my modem. If the connection is unstable *then* I might need to get a new modem.

Frustrating really. I wonder how many people have had their connection broken by BT due to poorly trained engineers.....

[Glenn]

There is at least one other here, coreservers.

[Tacitus]

...... I wonder how many people have had their connection broken by BT due to poorly trained engineers.....

You begin to wonder how many ISPs are going to be driven into bankruptcy by BT......

[Rik]

You do, Tac, and I don't like the answer I'm coming up with so far.

[silverblade]

Well, its unfortunate that BT just seem to let everyone down (ISPs and the ISPs customers). I've been quite pleased with idnet and the support they provide. Just wish BT did a better job of doing their jobs...

[coreservers]

well i'm on my 3rd week of unstable connectinos, but at least i'm on now. BT completely blew it, by creating a "datastream circuit", which I think will barely operate with dial up. I had to get ian livingstone and dan moss involved. today even I was out metal detecting all day, and got in to find an openreach engineer had called at 2.30, no call nor  warning they were coming at all.

[Rik]

Best to assume they might turn up any time, Core, and not leave the house at all.

[Rik]

Well, its unfortunate that BT just seem to let everyone down (ISPs and the ISPs customers). I've been quite pleased with idnet and the support they provide. Just wish BT did a better job of doing their jobs...

We all do. BT can destroy ISPs like IDNet and just walk away.

[silverblade]

Anyway, been out for a bit, back now... modem still syncing at 8meg...

[Rik]

Just not talking to anything, presumably?

[silverblade]

Nope. I do occasionally reboot the modem too just in case.

[Rik]

Avoid doing that too often, it can cause the BT software to kick in and raise your noise margin.

[quandam]

We all do. BT can destroy ISPs like IDNet and just walk away.

Rik

You know I am on your side (in general!) but surely the actions of BT affect ALL ISP's in the same way, it really is a level playing field when it comes to BT's poor service What do you think?

[Rik]

They do, Q, but it's the smaller ISPs where the effects tend to be more visible, as they have, historically, differentiated themselves from the big players by providing enhanced standards of reliability and customer service. BT is impacting that aspect of their business horrendously.

[silverblade]

Just lost sync for a bit, but its come back at 8meg again. Hmmm...

[Rik]

What's the upstream sync?

[silverblade]

832 again.

[quandam]

They do, Q, but it's the smaller ISPs where the effects tend to be more visible, as they have, historically, differentiated themselves from the big players by providing enhanced standards of reliability and customer service. BT is impacting that aspect of their business horrendously.

Newnet have overtaken IDNet in the DSL Zone ratings? Never thought this would happen

[Tacitus]

Newnet have overtaken IDNet in the DSL Zone ratings? Never thought this would happen

I think the differences are pretty marginal.  iDNet are currently being hit by the changeover to WBC which hopefully will be resolved in due course.  Problem is that although in the short term people leave, it's in the longer term that the damage is done to iDNets reputation. 

Word of mouth is the best sort of advertising you can have whilst your reputation is good, but it can be a very destructive force once that reputation starts to slide. 

[quandam]

Tacitus

Maybe pretty marginal, bur IDNet have, for the last three years to my knowledge been in the top five above NewNet by a couple of slots at least.
NewNet are a very similar business model to IDNet and have over the past year hauled themselves higher in the ratings.

As far as I know NewNet introduced WBC several months ago and despite its introduction have managed to overcome IDNets supremacy in the league table.

I just point this out for information only.

[silverblade]

Modem seems to have lost sync completely now...

What time do BTs engineers work until?

</hopeful>

[coreservers]

looks like you've got same issues I had. poor BT engineers. I sent direct emails to ian.livingstone@bt.com and dan.moss@openreach.com . and pull no punches when and if you do it. still got instablility problems, but at least I'm on.

[silverblade]

Well, looks like situation is unchanged. The modem basically gave up trying to sync until I rebooted it, at which point it went straight back to syncing at the previous speed.

Not heard anything back from idnet, left a message asking if they have heard back from BT but I'm guessing the answer will be no...

[Rik]

They'll get back to you when they can tell you something.

[silverblade]

Well, doesn't seem like BT are in much of a hurry to fix this. No news. Still no ADSL2+. Not pleased with this 'upgrade' so far.

[Rik]

We're beginning to see a pattern of people having to have their circuits re-built at the exchange, which suggests BT are using untrained staff to do the work and not testing thoroughly. 

[Sarah]

We're beginning to see a pattern of people having to have their circuits re-built at the exchange, which suggests BT are using untrained staff to do the work and not testing thoroughly. 

Hi Rik, Ive been following these threads on ADSL2+ issues with interest as my experience has been very similar to several posters here since I moved from ADSL Max a month ago. Widely fluctuating speeds or throughput as measured by the BT speedtester or the Thinkbroadband tester - from less than 1Mbps to over 10Mbps (within a very short time scale, if I run consecutive tests out of curiosity) - but with a consistent IP profile of 13000 kbps (since it dropped from 14000 after the first few days).  The average throughput seems to have been between 3 and 4Mbps (simply looking at the TBB graph).

I have been puzzled to know what to make of this as I suspected exchange congestion issues. I had thought this with my IPStream (Max) connection, which looked very similar (a consistent high profile, but low and variable speeds), only for the six months since December '08. My exchange flagged up on the Plusnet checker as due for a fix (long overdue). I now understand (from TBB forums) that the Plusnet checker only relates to IPStream, and that IPStream and WBC capacity at the exchange, are quite distinct from each other. So I would have thought if a connection is moved from ADSL Max to ADSL2+ at the exchange, that there would be no continuity in issues which reflect exchange congestion.   Yet the WBC connection (though a higher profile) has looked remarkably similar to the ADSL max one, both in its average throughput and wide variability.

IDNet knows about my connection, and it has been on their list for BT to investigate, do you know if BT is  methodically working through this list, re-testing these lines, with an option to 'rebuild the circuit at the exchange'?  I realise WBC is a whole different system to IPStream connections, and no one has been clear about the cause of some people's ADSL2+ problems (whereas others are sailing along with no issues), but your post intrigues me.

[Rik]

Hi Sarah and welcome to the forum.

The picture that is emerging gradually seems to imply that BT have a lack of well-trained WBC engineers, so that some circuits are not being built at the exchange correctly, and we see these poor throughput figures as a result. It tends only to affect people with high sync speeds (my WBC connection has been fine, but I'm down at the slow end with a 3-3.5M profile). It doesn't appear to be IDNet to blame as one member has migrated to another ISP and they haven't been able to wring a fix out of BT either, despite prolonged pressure.

To put it in perspective, last time I checked, only about 20 people of the 500 migrations at that time were affected, but that's no comfort if you're one of the 20, of course.

Personally, I think BT should be held accountable, but it seems like they've managed to make that impossible and Ofcom are of no use. I suspect that we, as users, are going to have to bombard our MPs to make this a political issue. Pressure will then come to bear on BT.

BT are, supposedly working through all the poor connections to resolve the issues, and I know that IDNet are keeping the pressure on, but there seems, so far, an inability to actually fix anything. I do wonder whether part of the problem is that BT have faild to provide adequate backhaul for the WBC orders they've accepted, but there's no way to check that.

The only consolation I can offer is that, when Max launched, the birthing pains were actually worse, so I am hopeful that, within a few months, WBC will be a good and reliable service which we can recommend with confidence.

[Ray]

  Sarah and

[silverblade]

BT engineer called from the exchange, to let me know that I should be able to connect now. At work right now, will test when I get home... At the moment though I can't get a ping response from my modem so I guess it needs rebooting...

[Rik]

 

Is there no-one who could power-cycle the router for you?

[Sarah]

Thanks for replies, yourself and Ray

[Simon]

  Sarah! 

[silverblade]

Nah. Nobody around to restart stuff. Ironically if I could connect I could reboot it remotely. Guess a dialup modem might come in useful for that if I had one...

Will see how it goes later on.

[coreservers]

it may be the case that they have got a sync on the line, but in my case I still could not see the internet (still cant every two days or so, and have to force a re sync.). they'd set up the circuit in such a way, that every time the router was rebooted, it sent a close command to the exchange and shut the circuit down.

[Rik]

Silver's in sync but, atm, IDNet can't see him. Hopefully, a re-boot will cure that, but until that's been tried, they can't do anything else.

[coreservers]

I do hope that works, but thats exactly what happened to me. I'm really not trying to be the bearer of bad tidings and all that 

[Simon]

Reality bites? 

[silverblade]

Well, just got home to find the modem's DSL light blinking repeatedly (indicating no sync.)

Turned it off and on again.
Light blinking continued.

About a minute later the light stayed on, so I went to the modem's config page and saw...

DSL Status:  Connected
DSL Speed:  855/10890kbps

...and here I am 

Not as good a speed as I had hoped for, but it's gotta be a better sync speed than 8 meg. Off to get Java working so I can run some speed tests (or alternatively, locate a large file...)

[Rik]

Phew. 

[Simon]

Hopefully it will improve as it 'warms up'. 

[Bill]

DSL Status:  Connected
DSL Speed:  855/10890kbps

...and here I am 

Not as good a speed as I had hoped for

That's about what I got at first iirc. It wandered about a bit for the first week or so and has now settled at a steady 12,500-odd.

Pretty close to the value that the IDNet page predicted, but a lot lower than MrSaffron's estimator gave, about 17-18K 

[silverblade]

I may also replace this old ADSL cable. It's a 10m cable, far too long where I live at the moment as the router is fairly close to the master socket.

Quite pleased so far that the modem at least seems to be compatible. I mean, I knew it was ADSL2 compatible but I heard stuff about the PSU not being able to supply enough juice to the modem etc.

[Simon]

Glad things are looking better, Silver. 

[silverblade]

Hmm... Brief re-sync just now. Modem logs seem to indicate loss of carrier:

Aug 11 22:24:02 | DSL Carrier is down
Aug 11 22:25:22 | DSL Carrier is up
Aug 11 22:25:22 | sar read trained mode (5)(ADSL_2plus)
Aug 11 22:25:23 | Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Aug 11 22:25:29 | Connection terminated.
Aug 11 22:25:29 | PPPD Terminated Through Signal

Reconnected at same speed as before, at least it came back up without needing a reboot.

[Bill]

Mine re-sync'd several times during the first week or so, but not because the SNRM dropped too low, I can only assume it was due to the error rate.

As often as not the new d/l rate was higher than before, at the expense of the u/l rate... there's some funny old algorithms in the MSANs I reckon 

Give it a while...

[Rik]

Same here, Bill.

[silverblade]

Well, looks like I had a re-sync and now have half the upstream bandwidth 
Downstream is still the same though (~10mbps)

Not sure what's up with that. Someone at the exchange hanging washing off the patch cable or something 

How much of an impact would getting a better/shorter ADSL cable have?

[Rik]

How long is the present one?

[Glenn]

I may also replace this old ADSL cable. It's a 10m cable, far too long where I live at the moment as the router is fairly close to the master socket.

Quite pleased so far that the modem at least seems to be compatible. I mean, I knew it was ADSL2 compatible but I heard stuff about the PSU not being able to supply enough juice to the modem etc.

[Rik]

Thanks, Glenn. Yes, definitely shorten it, Bob.

[silverblade]

OK, using a 2m cable instead now. Moved modem right by the master socket now...

Still syncing at the same speed but with around 440kbps upstream. 

Will leave it like this for a few days in case speed rises again etc.

[Rik]

Have we got you trying the MW radio trick?

[Simon]

We've yet to get anyone to video it! 

[Rik]

 

We really must. We could YouTube a series of tutorial FAQs...

[Glenn]

I can't do it, no one to hold the camera  

[Rik]

Wot, no tripod?

[Simon]

We really must. We could YouTube a series of tutorial FAQs...

Yup, FAQ yourself with IDNetters! 

[Rik]

[Simon]