New to IDNET - speed issue - please help

[attic]

Hi,
I have recently signed up to IDNET after suffering big issues with SKY...

My issue is that my connection speed varies hugely from around 6Mbps in the morning to below 2Mbps in the evening.  I thought that, since IDnet do not throttle the connections, I would get a pretty constant connection speed.  Is this just being stupid?

My IP Profile is 6500, with a connection speed of 7680.  These are steady with numerous BT Speedtester tests.

Line attenuation is 16dB and Noise Margin is 5dB - although I'm not sure what that means.

Can someone explain the difference in speeds.  Is it simply the contention rate (which I think means if a lot of people are connecting to the same line at the exchange?)...

thanks a lot.

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Are you on a WBC or ADSL Max service, if you're not sure what's the name of your package?

The symptoms you describe are typical of exchange congestion, but it's just possible that you're on a VP which is peaking. If you're on WBC, there's ongoing BT work which might be causing it.

[Ray]

 

[attic]

thanks for the quick reply.

I am on Home Lite (Up to 8 Mbps).

What do you mean by a VP?

[Glenn]

It's the path that your connection takes through the exchange

[Simon]

I only know it stands for Virtual Path.

 

[attic]

I assume if my issue is exchange congestion then there is nothing I can do about it?

[Glenn]

Is the exchange listed as red here http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

[Rik]

Not immediately, but talk to support on Tuesday and they can delve for you.

[attic]

The exchange has a green flag for VP.

Thanks for the comments - I will call support next week.

[Sebby]

[Dangerjunkie]

Hi Attic,

Welcome to the gang IDNet are a fantastic ISP. Once you get everything sorted you'll love it here

How are you measuring your speed? Is it all sites and programs that are being affected or just some of them?

There are a number of things that can cause wild speed changes. Congestion in the exchange is one of them. A quick way to tell if that is a problem (though this one will cost you) is to ask IDNet to increase your package to Home SuperMax for a month. That will cause your connection to be changed to a business connection at the exchange which will give you traffic priority (if the exchange gets congested your traffic will win over people on residential tariffs every time). IIUC IDNet always reserve enough bandwidth for all their customers within their network so if you do have a congestion problem it's in the exchange or the BT-owned bit between the exchange and IDNet. Another option would be to change to ADSL2+ ( also known as "WBC" ) if your exchange supports it.

As always, I'd also recommend you invest in a filtered faceplate an professional modem cable from ADSLNation.

Cheers,
Paul.

[rireed3]

I would get a pretty constant connection speed.

I agree with everyone else that it looks like your path to IDNet has some sort of congestion.  Just to help clear up possible confusion, there are two 'speeds'.  You have jumbled them together in the quote above.

The first speed is 'connection rate', and that is determined by the electrical characteristics between your router and the exchange equipment.  Line length, line material and external noise in your house, at the exchange and in between affect that.  The connection rate quoted in your BT Speedtester result was 7680.

If the connection rate is steady, and you don't get frequent "re-syncs", where router and exchange give up and re-negotiate, then the speed results are being affected by another speed, "throughput", called "Actual IP throughput" on the BT Speedtester result.

You can tell if you are "holding sync" by looking at the WAN up-time, or some similar time in your router statistics.  I wouldn't expect your line to re-sync at all, so you might see many days in this figure.  If you're still in the first 10 days, you should leave it on all the time anyway.

There are other things to look at, but if your line stays synced, it's best to leave well alone for a while.

Richard

[attic]

THanks Richard,

I had only recently set the router onto the master socket, synching at 7680.  Router stats are showing a connection time of 72 hours, which is when I changed the router positioning.  But the big connection speed swings happened before too on another socket. 

[Rik]

The key issue, though is to separate throughput speeds from sync speeds. If the latter stay constant, but your throughput varies, it's a congestion issue. If the sync speed varies, it's a router or internal wiring issue.

[quandam]

Attic

I assume you were on the Sky Connect package? I was on that package, it was absolutely diabolical after 5pm each day and then moved (for the second time!) to IDNet. I do not have any problems now after 5pm the difference is substantial. I tell you this in order that it may help in identifying your particular problem.  

[attic]

yes, I was with SKY Connect, which was dire.

Much better now, and from what everyone is saying, it seems like an exchange issue.  My sync speed is constant.  It is only connection speed which is changing.

[Rik]

If it's the connection speed, we need to establish why you're dropping sync. How's the router connected, eg direct to master socket, in a hard-wired extension or though an extenion lead? What else is connected to the phone line and how many, if any, extension sockets do you have?

[attic]

apologies - i used the wrong term.

connection rate is constant at 7680 and hasn't moved since I connected it.

throughput rate is what is varying widely.

Router is on the master socket, with a high quality cable, and a micro-filter.

[Rik]

OK, if throughput is varying but sync speed is the same, it can only be congestion. Talk to support on Tuesday and they can check whether there's any congestion at the exchange or on the VP you're connected to.

[MisterW]

Line attenuation is 16dB and Noise Margin is 5dB - although I'm not sure what that means.

Sorry to put a spoke in the works folks, but if that attenuation and noise margin is correct then there's something not quite right. With that attenuation I would expect the line to synch at 8128 and with a noise margin much greater than 5db. Ok, the 7680 synch could be due to interleaving on the line but the NM should be way higher.
Do you have any extension sockets and is the 'bell' wire connected ?

[rireed3]

Yes, MisterW,

but since the sync is steady, even if not optimal, the throughput is a different and more significant problem for now.

Also, extra syncs from trying to get a slightly better sync might actually make things worse through DLM.

Richard

[MisterW]

the throughput is a different and more significant problem for now

Yes but the fact that the NM is at 5db, and it might be varying lower than that, means that the connection will be giving errors. If these get to a significant level then they will, to some extent, reduce the throughput as error correction and retries will be being attempted and possibly even dropped packets. Maybe we could get the OP to get some more detailed stats from the router so we can see the level of errors present.

[attic]

there are 2 extension sockets, but only 1 has a phone attached.  I assume the bell wire is connected, as the phone rings...

What is the "OP"?

[Ann]

The OP is the Original Poster in the thread.  Phones nowadays don't need the bell wire as they ring anyway so disconnecting it is a good idea.

[Ted]

The bell wire is connected to terminal "3" on the connector block, you need to remove the wire from all sockets not just the master socket. Ease them out carefully and tuck them out of the way.

[MisterW]

here are 2 extension sockets, but only 1 has a phone attached

You do have that phone connected though a filter don't you ?
Here's some info on removing the bell wire ( ringwire ) http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm#ringwire

[Dangerjunkie]

Hi,

It's not safe to assume that the bell wire is attached because the phone rings. Most modern phones don't need the bell wire to ring.

Is your Sky or Sky+ box connected to the line for ordering movies and the like? If is they are famous for squirting electrical noise back into the line and messing up ADSL. Sky boxes need two filters (plug first filter into the socket, plug the second filter into the first, plug the Sky box into the second) to get rid of most of the noise they make. If you're out of your first year and you don't use any of the voting, interactive or pay movies then it is better to unplug the Sky box from the line.

Not all filters ar ecreated equal. I would recommend you put an ADSLNation filtered faceplate on your master socket (you then don't need a filter on the phone). If you're plugging your Sky box in I would plug an ADSLNation XF1e filter into that in addition to the new faceplate.

Cheers,
Paul.

[cavillas]

Also I would put a filter on the unused extension.  My friend had a problem with connection but when a filter was put on the unused extension eveything cleared up.  Just a thought.

[Sebby]

I think that was probably just coincidence, Alf.

[Rik]

I actually had a situation where putting a filter in an unused extension made things worse. Funny thing, ADSL. 

[attic]

I had emailed support, and received the following:

Normally the only reason you would see a slow down in the evenings would
be related  to exchange contention, however, I have spoken to BT and
they have confirmed there is plenty of available bandwidth in the
exchange at all times.

Over the weekend, my throughout was up to 6Mbps.  This evening, at 10pm, it is down to 1.03Mbps.  Connection speed has remained constant at 6780 throughout.

I have not been able to do the things suggested here yet - disconnecting the bell wire and fitting the filter faceplate, although i plan to.  If these are not the cause of the issue, and it is not contention at exchange - any other ideas?

thanks
Paul

[attic]

Just done another speedtest - on speedtester.net.

Throughput has gone down to 0.23Mbps.

Given it was nearly 6.0Mbps yesterday, this seems weird...

[Simon]

I don't know about weird, it seems bloody tragic!    Sorry, I haven't read through the thread, but have you done a BT Speedtest?

[attic]

6am - throughput back up to 6.2Mbps.

[Lance]

It does seem like massive congestion, but it also seems similar to the WBC problem...

[Rik]

Paul's on Max though, Lance. IDNet were experiencing some congestion yesterday afternoon, but it was over by about 5:30. To me, this 'feels' like an exchange issue.