Very poor download speed (~30kbps) on HomeMax Package.

[Jimbo]

 Hello all,

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post, sadly it is not a one of good news.  I recently moved to IDnet about 2 weeks ago.  Since then I have had mixed results, most likely down to the 10 days or so it takes for the line to settle.  The last few days have seen me able to download at roughly 100kbps, which I was happy about. 

However, last night and today has been a real pain.  No matter what I try, I can not download faster than 30kbps.  If I try to browse the web, whlist the download is in progress, it crawls along as if the connection is maxed out.   

Now I have emailed technical support, but I thought I would ask here as well to see if anyone had any ideas.  I have the following details availble.

After running the test at http://speedtester.bt.com/ it gave me the following results:-

IP profile for your line is - 250 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 1472 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 167 kbps

Does this seem a little low to people?  I spoke to a person on another forum who said, "it looks like your BRAS profile is set to 250kbps".  I take it that this is meant to be higher? 

I have done the usual, update firmware on the router, swap filters, check for Viruses (Nod32) and Spyware.  Also deleted my browser cahce (IE7 and Firefox).  The problem also occurs when I use a download manager with many connections, such as GetRight.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[AvengerUK]

it looks like something has badly affected your BRAS. It will reset itself to the max, but that will take 3 days of stability im afriad.

[Rik]

IP profile for your line is - 250 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 1472 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 167 kbps

That sync speed would give you a profile of 1000kbps, Jimbo, roughly equivalent to a fixed-rate 1Mbps connection. However, as Avenger says, something has affected your profile and pushed it down to 250kbps. That something is likely to be a noisy line, which has forced your router/modem to re-sync at regular intervals and BT's line monitoring equipment is trying to stabilise things by lowering your speed. Unless you keep a solid connection at your current sync speed for 3 days, the profile will remain where it is.

Do you have a lot of phone extensions in the house, is every device connected to the line filtered, eg phones, fax machines, Sky boxes etc?

Can you provide some line stats for us, details of how to do so can be found here.

[AvengerUK]

Is everything on the line supposed to be filtered? I only use on filter for two phones and the adsl!

[Rik]

Anything which plugs in needs to be filtered, Avenger. The only thing which isn't is the ADSL signal, that side of the 'soap on a rope' is actually a straight 'pass through'.

[Jimbo]

it looks like something has badly affected your BRAS. It will reset itself to the max, but that will take 3 days of stability im afriad.

3 days. yikes!  I wonder how this has happened?  Thanks for the reply though.  At least it will return to normal.

[Rik]

It will, Jimbo, but only if your line stabilises. You need to check your internal wiring, the devices plugged in etc to ensure you get the best signal you can.

[Jimbo]

That sync speed would give you a profile of 1000kbps, Jimbo, roughly equivalent to a fixed-rate 1Mbps connection. However, as Avenger says, something has affected your profile and pushed it down to 250kbps. That something is likely to be a noisy line, which has forced your router/modem to re-sync at regular intervals and BT's line monitoring equipment is trying to stabilise things by lowering your speed. Unless you keep a solid connection at your current sync speed for 3 days, the profile will remain where it is.

Do you have a lot of phone extensions in the house, is every device connected to the line filtered, eg phones, fax machines, Sky boxes etc?

Can you provide some line stats for us, details of how to do so can be found here.

Thankyou for the reply also.  In response to your questions,

My line is quite bad, I really want to know actually (on a side note) if there is anything I can do about this?  Perhaps get BT to put in a better line?  But anyway, back on topic.  I will try and keep the router up for 3 days, however, because of the line I sometimes have problems where the line drops by itself (usually on an evening) but I will try my best to keep it going.

I have x3 phone points in the house.  Two of which are in use, the third has nothing connected to it.  The two which are in use both have ADSL filters.  The one in my room with the router, the other in the corridor with the telephone.  I have read up on replacing the master socket with a different faceplate.  I may try this sometime however it is awkward as the master socket is quite far away from my actual PC setup.  I do not have any fax machines or sky boxes.

Thanks for the link.  I have the following stats (from my router).  These seem to vary from being really good, to being quite poor.  Tonight they are showing as:-

Downstream
-----------
SNR Margin - 5.5dB (Sometimes this is around 10dB)
Line Attenuation - 43.5dB  (Sometimes this is around 40dB)
CRC Errors - 22
Latency - Interleave

Upstream
---------
SNR Margin - 9.0dB
Line Attenuation - 31.5dB
CRC Errors - 0
Latency - Interleave

I am running a Billion BiPAC 7402VGP router.  Looking at those stats they seem very poor at the minute. 

[Jimbo]

It will, Jimbo, but only if your line stabilises. You need to check your internal wiring, the devices plugged in etc to ensure you get the best signal you can.

Hi, thanks for the help.  The wiring in the house is brand new as it's all been renovated.  I honestly think it is just the line into the house which is rubbish, but I don't know what I can do to fix this problem. 

Thanks.

[Rik]

My line is quite bad, I really want to know actually (on a side note) if there is anything I can do about this?  Perhaps get BT to put in a better line?

BT don't tend to rush around with big drums of new cable, sadly, and I am first in the queue when they start to. However, your stats are actually better than mine, and I have a stable profile of 2500, 3000 if the wind is in the right direction! Hence, I believe that your problems, literally, start at home.

I have x3 phone points in the house.  Two of which are in use, the third has nothing connected to it.  The two which are in use both have ADSL filters.  The one in my room with the router, the other in the corridor with the telephone.  I have read up on replacing the master socket with a different faceplate.  I may try this sometime however it is awkward as the master socket is quite far away from my actual PC setup.  I do not have any fax machines or sky boxes.

No Sky boxes is always good news! How is the wiring run, is it BT installed and off a master socket (and is that master socket an NTE5, the type where you can remove the bottom 2/3rds of the faceplate)? If you do have an NTE5, is it feasible to move the router to the master socket, take off the faceplate and connect to the test socket behind it. (One way of achieving this, if you don't want to shift the computer, is to move the router to the socket and run a long ethernet cable to the computer, you can have a maximum of 100 metres.)

Thanks for the link.  I have the following stats (from my router).  These seem to vary from being really good, to being quite poor.  Tonight they are showing as:-

Downstream
-----------
SNR Margin - 5.5dB (Sometimes this is around 10dB)
Line Attenuation - 43.5dB  (Sometimes this is around 40dB)
CRC Errors - 22
Latency - Interleave

Upstream
---------
SNR Margin - 9.0dB
Line Attenuation - 31.5dB
CRC Errors - 0
Latency - Interleave

You have quite low d/s attenuation, and should be able to get much better figures. I get my 2500 profile with 55db attenuation. Your u/s nouse margin is very low, I'd expect it to be in the 20s.

At this point, I'd strongly suspect a wiring fault in the house, or bad wiring practice, eg running the phone line parallel to the mains wiring. The fact your line drops at night is to be expected, noise increases then - particularly if your line runs overhead.

Check your own wiring as much as you can then call CS, who can get BT to send an engineer out. Be aware, though, that if he finds the fault to be in your internal wiring, ie after the master socket, you will incur a charge.

[Lance]

One more thing which can be done is the removal of the ring wire (normally orange/white I think), which connects to terminal three in your telephone sockets. Some people find disconnecting this yields great improvements.

[Rik]

I was going to get to that, Lance, honest.

[Jimbo]

BT don't tend to rush around with big drums of new cable, sadly, and I am first in the queue when they start to. However, your stats are actually better than mine, and I have a stable profile of 2500, 3000 if the wind is in the right direction! Hence, I believe that your problems, literally, start at home.

No Sky boxes is always good news! How is the wiring run, is it BT installed and off a master socket (and is that master socket an NTE5, the type where you can remove the bottom 2/3rds of the faceplate)? If you do have an NTE5, is it feasible to move the router to the master socket, take off the faceplate and connect to the test socket behind it. (One way of achieving this, if you don't want to shift the computer, is to move the router to the socket and run a long ethernet cable to the computer, you can have a maximum of 100 metres.)

You have quite low d/s attenuation, and should be able to get much better figures. I get my 2500 profile with 55db attenuation. Your u/s nouse margin is very low, I'd expect it to be in the 20s.

At this point, I'd strongly suspect a wiring fault in the house, or bad wiring practice, eg running the phone line parallel to the mains wiring. The fact your line drops at night is to be expected, noise increases then - particularly if your line runs overhead.

Check your own wiring as much as you can then call CS, who can get BT to send an engineer out. Be aware, though, that if he finds the fault to be in your internal wiring, ie after the master socket, you will incur a charge.

Appreciate the help mate.  I have literally just put an order in for the following (we must of been thinking the same thing):-

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

I'm now looking at getting a wireless card, shifting my router down to the master socket, and running that through the new faceplate (I can live with slower file transfers on the network for better internet connection/speeds).  After reading around it would appear pretty much everyone who has done this "mod" because of poor ADSL stats has seen an improvement.   So here's hoping!

The line does run overhead as well.  But who are CS?    Is that IDNet customer services?

Thanks again.

[Jimbo]

One more thing which can be done is the removal of the ring wire (normally orange/white I think), which connects to terminal three in your telephone sockets. Some people find disconnecting this yields great improvements.

Hi Lance,

I did not know about this, is it simply a case of taking all the front faceplates off and looking for this wire?

Thanks.

[Lance]

I can only speak as someone without an NTE5 faceplate...

The simple answer is... Yes!

When I did it I simply unscrewed my socket faceplate, locate the cable feeding to terminal 3 (they were numbered on mine) and pulled it out. Personally, it diodn't bring me much improvement but I know some people have had truely massive jumps in performance. I think the main reason is that this wire can cause problems is because it can at as a antenna introducing more noise on the line.

[Rik]

Is that IDNet customer services?

Yup!

The thing about the bell wire trick is to disconnect at the master and all extension sockets. It's the wire on terminal 3, usually orange/white, but not always, so go by the terminal number. Check while you're there that the wiring is using a pair, eg blue/white, white/blue, if it's not, that would unbalance the line and cause more noise pickup.

[Lance]

It's the wire on terminal 3, usually orange/white, but not always, so go by the terminal number.

That's why I was careful not to just give the colour! Sound advice again about checking the other wires while you're there.

I was going to get to that, Lance, honest.

[Jimbo]

Thanks again, all good info!

So am I right in saying that because I have the NTE5 box I won't have this "ring wire"?  Or can I have that and the NTE5 box as well?

I'll have a look anyway when me and my dad fit the new faceplate for an orange/white wire on terminal 3.   I'll also check the wiring is paired.  Does that mean for each terminal there should be two sets of wires attatched?

Sorry if I'm coming across "dumb".  I just want to make sure I know what you guys are on about.

Thanks.

[Lance]

You can/do have a ring wire in the NTE5 box, but because I don't have one I don't know if the process is the same, although I would imagine it is.

Not sure about the second question... I'll leave that one for Rik!

[Rik]

You're not coming across 'dumb', Jimbo, if we haven't made ourselves clear it's best to ask.

1) NTE5 or not doesn't affect whether you will have a ring/bell wire, it just means you have a test socket and can fit the ADSL Nation alternative.

2) The ring wire is always on terminal three at all sockets, the colour will depend on a number of things, but the BT 'standard' is orange/white.

3)  Paired wires refers to the cable construction. A standard phone wire will have three pairs: blue/white, white blue; orange/white, white orange and green/white, white green. Usually (again) the blue/white, white/blue pair is used when there's only a single line. The cable is constructed with the pairs twisted around each other. This cancels out much of the noise pick up. However, if it's a split pair, say blue/white and green/white, the noise cancellation is not present and you will get a poor signal. In effect, your wiring becomes a big aerial, picking up electrical noise an MW radio, which is the spectrum the ADSL signals are in. So you only need single wires on terminals 2 & 5 of each socket, but they need to be a pair.

[Jimbo]

Great stuff.  I appreciate the help with this one.

So some things for me to try:-

• Fit new faceplate to the NTE5 box.  Move Router.
• Check and remove Bell Wire (Orange/White on Terminal 3) from all sockets... or is it only the master socket which has it?
• Check wiring for pairing.  If it is not paired is it easy to fix/do?

.... make cup of coffee and enjoy hopefully better internet. lol. 

Oh, and don't reset my router for 3 days to make sure the speed is back to full.

Thanks for all the help again!

[Rik]

You're OK to reset the router, but don't do it more than nine times an hour. Apparently, 10 or more re-syncs trip the BT line management software.

Glad we could help, or at least start to help...

[Lance]

In answer to your question, which Rik missed , i think you will have a bell wire on all sockets.

Glad we could be of help to you. Let us know how you get on.

[MoHux]

Rik, for non-techies I think you would do well to not mention 'check for pairs'.

I don't see how you could make it clearer, but I found it confusing, and I knew what it was. 

[Rik]

I take your point, Mo, it's not the easiest of concepts to try and explain. However, wiring that has not been installed by BT, eg by builders or DIY, quite often will not be wired correctly and that can have a dramatic effect on ADSL, particularly Max.

From the figures Jimbo has posted, I have a strong feeling that his wiring is implicated in the problems he's been experiencing. I guess I need to think of a better way of describing things, possibly using some photos to illustrate the concept?