No connection - a few queries

[jca74]

Hello,

I migrated to ADSL2+ IDNet from a fixed 2Mb/s with another ISP. The activation took place on Friday 7th September, but I have been unable to connect at all.

I have tried two wired routers - my old Netgear DG834v2 which I used with the fixed 2Mb/s broadband, and a new DG834v4 (which came in the post today) as IDNet asked me to check it wasn't a problem with my hardware before getting BT on the case.

With both routers, the symptoms are identical - I get a solid green DSL light, a downstream & upstream connection (about 4100 & 1080 at the moment), but no authentication. The v4 has a new "internet" light which is red. I've tried manual setup (both "multi-mode" and "ADSL2+" mode) and wizard setup without success. I've just emailed IDNet, so hopefully they'll raise it with BT on Monday.

I have a few queries:

1) Does this sound like a BT problem, or an IDNet problem?

2) I've recently read that regularly disconnecting/reconnecting (which is what I've been doing for the last week, trying to get authentication to work) is very bad in the 10 day training period...  It apparently makes the BT exchange think you have a bad line, and you get a lower speed as a result. Is this 10 day period something that can be reset/restarted? I hope so...

3) My exchange (Shrewsbury) is supposed to be ADSL2+ enabled, but a post on here rather alarmingly said that there's no going back to ADSLMax from ADSL2+... Now I was on a fixed speed (2Mb) package, not ADSLMax - is it possible to go back to this if ADSL2+ turns out not to work at all on my phone?

Thanks,
JC

[Rik]

Hi JC and welcome to the forum.

1) It could be either. One thought would be that either your username or password was entered wrongly in the router, but if you've been sent one by IDNet it will have been pre-configured. That leaves me suspecting that either BT haven't built your circuit correctly (we've seen a few of those with WBC) or that the IDNet authentication server is set wrongly for your account. If you phone IDNet 0800 701 2000, someone will get back to you in a 'no service' situation.

2) No, you can't normally re-start the training period, but you've got time for the situation to recover by itself anyway. The golden rule is avoid 10 or more re-syncs an hour. Dropping the PPP session will not affect the training period at all.

3) I think it will be resolved, because if you're able to sync, it seems that it's an authentication issue. It's true that once you're on an MSAN it's very difficult to get BT to move you back to a DSLAM, instead they profile the connection to look like Max. There are tricks, however.

[Ray]

  JC

[jca74]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

1) I have double and triple checked the username/password. But the Netgear setup documentation seems to suggest that the "internet" light should be green from the word go... i.e. before even configuring the router with usernames/passwords & other settings.

2) Oh dear :-( I am sure I have done over 10 resyncs in an hour at least once in the last week while I was desperately trying to get the thing to work... Whenever I have used the wizard, or unplugged the line, it has gone through the resynching process. It was originally over 6800, and now at 4100. Is my speed going to have suffered permanently?

JC

[Rik]

1) I always set routers up before connecting them to the phone line, it should work. Don't use the wizard, just log in to the router interface from your browser.

2) Not permanently, you've probably dropped the profile, but it will recover in 3-5 days. As fas as possible, just leave the connection alone during the 10 days and let it do its thing.

[Sebby]

[jca74]

2) Not permanently, you've probably dropped the profile, but it will recover in 3-5 days. As fas as possible, just leave the connection alone during the 10 days and let it do its thing.

Thank you, Rik - I am leaving it well alone. (But unplugging my kitchen phone & filter to see if that helped caused a resync...! I've left that phone unplugged for now.)

I made a typo in first post - activation on Friday 11th September, so if that was day 1, then today is my last (10th) training day. Can the profile still recover in 3-5 days from now?

Although I have no authentication, I can see the following stats in the Netgear:

ADSL Link              Downstream       Upstream
Connection Speed   4253 kbps         888 kbps
Line Attenuation     41.5 db            21.5 db
Noise Margin          13.8 db              6.6 db

Does that suggest the default profile has been lowered?

JC

[Lance]

Hi JC.

There is no default profile and the training period doesn't really affect your profile to much. The profile is constantly adaptive to your sync speed - unfortunately this is instantly in the case of a downward movement and normally 3-5 days in the case of an upward movement.

Your downtream noise margin does, however, suggest that your line has been unstable and raised in 3db increments from the default target of 6db to 15db to combat the instability.

Unplugging a phone and filter should not cause the line to drop so I think that may have been a coincidence! Have you contacted support yet?

[jca74]

Thanks, Lance.

Yes, I have emailed support, and asked them if they can now ask BT to look into it. (I'm on a dialup connection at the moment.)

Is there any other setting in the profile (apart from the "target noise margin of 6db") which will have been adversely affected during my flawed 10 day training period?

Thanks for your patience with my queries... just a bit frustrated that a 30 minute migration has turned into 10 days, and wishing I'd known in advance not to unplug/reboot my router so much when I was trying in vain to connect.

JC

[Rik]

Your maximum stable rate, and thus fault threshold rate may be affected but, tbh, they have little impact in the real world.

[jca74]

Hooray!! I am now connected properly, and it turns out that my 10 day training period starts today. 

It turned out that BT had cancelled my order on the original date of activation due to some technical glitch at their end, and put back the activation without informing IDNet... Customer support at IDNet have been very good at sorting it out quickly and keeping me informed over the last couple of days since they discovered what happened.

Stats are now the following, which (hopefully) bodes well - I am not expecting more than a 5Mb connection from my exchange:

ADSL Link               Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed    6003 kbps       959 kbps
Line Attenuation       41.5 db         21.8 db
Noise Margin              4.3 db          5.4 db


I have a couple of questions:

1) Am I correct in assuming that just leaving the router alone throughout the 10 day training profile is the best thing to do? i.e. Is it best not to manually reboot it at all?

2) I've read that the connection speed will vary during the 10 day training period. Does this mean that the network will send a signal every so often that forces my router to resync? If so, roughly how often does this happen?

Many thanks,
JC

[Lance]

Hi jc

glad you are finally connected!

1) most people leave the router alone and I don't think there is any benefit to be had from rebooting the router.

2) yes the exchange may cause a resync to establish the maximum speed you can get, but I don't think anyone can tell you how often it will happen. Certainly for me I just saw a resync every day for the first few days or so.

[Rik]

As Lance says, JC, the system works by starting you on the fastest possible speed, then it manages the connection to achieve stability. This usually happens, if required, in two stages. First interleaving is turned on and then, if the line still isn't stable, the target noise margin is increased until stability is achieved. Most of this will happen in the first 2-3 days.

[jca74]

Thank you both, Lance and Rik.

JC

[Sebby]

Glad you're connected, JC.