2Wire Dual SSID BT Business Hub and WPA

LesD · Oct 17, 2009, 21:35:03

I expect this has been asked and covered before but as it is all new to me I will have to ask again!

My wife has obtained a hp Compaq Laptop and having no experience of wireless connections, being an advocate of copper conductors, in the first instance my son helped her connect to my 2Wire 2700HGV Dual SSID BT Business Hub using its WEP key.

Having swatted up on matters Wireless I read that WPA is deemed to be more secure so I have just entered the WPA key in place of the WEP one and find that there is limited or no connectivity with this one.

Putting the WEP key back the Laptop connects just fine again.

Having had the experience there are stirrings of a memory that maybe somewhere on the forum I read that WPA only works with BT BB Accounts.
Is this true or am I having another senior moment?

Ted · Oct 17, 2009, 21:47:47

WPA WPA2 work just fine with the 2700. Make sure the security settings are the same on both the router and the laptop. Also check the encryption method is the same, ie, TKIP or AES, whatever it is on the router. I had a problem with that on Vista

LesD · Oct 17, 2009, 22:02:01

Quote from: Ted on Oct 17, 2009, 21:47:47
WPA WPA2 work just fine with the 2700. Make sure the security settings are the same on both the router and the laptop. Also check the encryption method is the same, ie, TKIP or AES, whatever it is on the router. I had a problem with that on Vista

Thanks for the quick reply Ted. I see WPA and WPA2 PSK options in the Wireless configuration of the 2700 but I shall have to wait for the Laptop to be free again before I can go looking for where this is in its configuration. Another voyage of discovery but it keeps the grey matter working!

Steve · Oct 17, 2009, 22:11:17

I think if you delete the previous WEP wireless connection in Vista it should detect the encryption automatically then all you need is the passcode. I've had problems with Vista in the past with passcodes when a previous connection of the same SSID already existed. I think you'll find it under manage wireless connections if my memory serves me correctly.

Ted · Oct 17, 2009, 22:16:59

That's exactly it Steve, didn't delete the WEP connection and Vista hadn't changed the encryption type, took me half an hour of head scratching to figure it out.

I believe if you right click on the connection and go to properties you can change the setting there, I can't check, the laptop has migrated to Uni.

LesD · Oct 17, 2009, 22:19:15

Quote from: stevethegas on Oct 17, 2009, 22:11:17
I think if you delete the previous WEP wireless connection in Vista it should detect the encryption automatically then all you need is the passcode. I've had problems with Vista in the past with passcodes when a previous connection of the same SSID already existed. I think you'll find it under manage wireless connections if my memory serves me correctly.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the input but Laptop is running XP Pro so it is not a Vista issue but it looks like it will be tomorrow before I get to try again!

Ted · Oct 17, 2009, 22:26:51

Probably still best to delete the old WEP connection Les, start from a clean slate, just to rule out the possibility of corrupt settings

Edit:

I seem to remember that in XP, I had to download a WPA client update, from MS, for my wife's HP, to make it compliant, just a thought. I,ll see of I can check what it was.

LesD · Oct 17, 2009, 22:38:40

Quote from: Ted on Oct 17, 2009, 22:26:51
Probably still best to delete the old WEP connection Les, start from a clean slate, just to rule out the possibility of corrupt settings

Edit:

I seem to remember that in XP, I had to download a WPA client update, from MS, for my wife's HP, to make it compliant, just a thought. I,ll see of I can check what it was.

OK will do. I thought I had because I brought up the two boxes where you enter the values and the row of black dots were visible so I selected them and overwrote the previous entry then entered the WPA for the second time in the box below.

I did the same to go back to the WEP and this worked but I guess if what I did had not properly deleted it in the first place this might be why it was OK.

I will see if I can find any info about the client you mention too. Thanks for your input.

Ted · Oct 17, 2009, 22:40:52

I believe this was the one I used. http://www.microsoft.com/DOWNLOADS/details.aspx?familyid=662BB74D-E7C1-48D6-95EE-1459234F4483&displaylang=en

Worked great for me, yours may not be the same issue, as I say, just a thought.

LesD · Oct 18, 2009, 13:14:10

Quote from: Ted on Oct 17, 2009, 22:40:52
I believe this was the one I used. http://www.microsoft.com/DOWNLOADS/details.aspx?familyid=662BB74D-E7C1-48D6-95EE-1459234F4483&displaylang=en

Worked great for me, yours may not be the same issue, as I say, just a thought.

Thanks Ted I will get it after lunch and let you know how I get on.

LesD · Nov 03, 2009, 13:44:10

Other events overtook me and I did not get back to trying to get the WPA wireless connection working between my wife's hp Compact nc6220 and my Dual SSID 2 Wire 2700HVG until last evening.

I went to the Wireless settings page in the 2700 and one at a time tried all of the WPA options, WPA TSK, WPA TSK & WPA2 TSK, and WPA2 TSK etc I tried each of these options with the WPA key from the label on the bottom of the 2700 but did not get connected.

The top option, open or none I forget what is it called works fine with the WEP or WPA key as does WEP Shared but I really want to use the more secure 128 bit encrypted WPA option.

I followed the link Ted posted and read the MS KB Article associated with it that led me to a later download namely 917021 so I had this one instead but when I tried to install it I was told my service pack was already newer than this one and the install aborted. I have XP's SP3 installed and all patches were up to date as of about 10 days ago.

What I am not sure about is how to make sure the original WEP connection is completely removed before attempting to connect with the WPA Key and which of the various options the 2700 wireless settings page offers to me. I have disconnected but I am sure this is the same as removing.

All help and advice would be very much appreciated.

Rik · Nov 03, 2009, 16:25:43

This is the setup screen from mine, Les. Once you've selected WPA2 and a custom key, you will be fine.

[attachment deleted by admin]

LesD · Nov 03, 2009, 16:41:28

Thanks Rik I will give it another go but with a Custom Key this time.

What are the rules for creating a Custom Key?

That is can it be alpha numeric, if so are upper and lower case letters allowed and how many Characters/Digits are permitted in total?

Rik · Nov 03, 2009, 16:44:23

Alpha-numeric is fine, upper and lowercase. I believe you can go up to 63 characters.

LesD · Nov 03, 2009, 16:45:28

Thanks I will give it a go but 63 seems more than I would go for.

Rik · Nov 03, 2009, 17:09:53

Me too, all that typing gets hard.

LesD · Nov 03, 2009, 18:23:31

Magic Rik and I even managed to avoid the typing

I found a website that auto-generated keys that let you choose the number of characters to use. I picked 32 but now I know it works I should have gone for more but it's OK for the moment and certainly better than the WEP one.

I copied my new Custom key that had been generated to Wordpad and saved and printed the page.

I made the page in my 2700 look more or less like yours and pasted in the key then clicked the Submit button and closed IE8.

I copied the file with the new Custom key in it to a memory stick and took it to the Laptop.

The Laptop could no-longer connect with the default WEP key it had been using so I pasted in my new Custom one in both the boxes I am presented with and clicked the Connect button. Hey presto job done.

Why the default WPA key from the label on the 2700 doesn't work I don't know but I was going to have a Custom one in the end anyway so all's well.

With the copy and paste technique a max length 63 character one would be no problem either.

If you didn't want to trust the website you could generate four say and quarter them and piece together a new one from the bits but I haven't gone there myself well not yet.

Thanks for the guidance once again.

Rik · Nov 03, 2009, 18:28:57

Glad to help, Les.

LesD · Nov 03, 2009, 19:19:22

Just for the sake of completeness if anyone else wants to generate a Custom WPA Key this is the website I used.

Sebby · Nov 03, 2009, 19:36:19

LesD · Nov 16, 2009, 20:51:47

Further to the foregoing all is well with my WPA wireless access but when I look at the various Wireless Networks in Range I see a BT Fusion one that ends with the last four digits of my Router's serial number, very similar to my active one that ends with the last three digits of my serial number.

I guess my 2700HGV Router must be broadcasting for this BT Fusion option to be visible. What is this about and what's it for? Is this one secure as I have not set a key for it? I am sure there are many who will be able to tell me.

Lance · Nov 16, 2009, 22:14:20

It is secure I believe but you can easily turn it off. I think it's on the right hand side of the lical network settings screen, where you can also turn of the USB port if you so desire.

MisterW · Nov 17, 2009, 12:28:21

QuoteI guess my 2700HGV Router must be broadcasting for this BT Fusion option to be visible. What is this about and what's it for? Is this one secure as I have not set a key for it?

This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Fusion will explain all about BT Fusion.
Yes, it is secure, WPA encryption is enabled on the Fusion wireless ( and you can't disable it ), with a default key ( which you can change ) and default SSID ( again changeable ). Basically it provides a separate wireless network, with a different IP subnet, which can be useful under some circumstances. As Lance says, you can enable/disable it from the 'Local Network' settings page.
Hope that helps.

LesD · Nov 17, 2009, 21:19:57

Thanks Lance and MisterW the Wiki page is great but I can't see where to disable the Fusion under Local Network Settings!

I went all through there before posting the question about BT Fusion. To save me posting my Wireless Setting Page it is just like the one Rik posted way above at Reply #11 in this thread and I can see nothing about Fusion on it!

What am I missing?

Ah this edit is because I now know what I was missing I was here: http://home/xslt?PAGE=J46&THISPAGE=J01&NEXTPAGE=J46
not there: http://home/xslt?PAGE=C01

I rarely go "there" so I was a bit slow on the uptake sorry about that.

I have disabled the Fusion option as I don't currently have a use for it.

Lance · Nov 17, 2009, 22:12:05

Glad you got there in the end!

MisterW · Nov 18, 2009, 15:01:22

QuoteI have disabled the Fusion option as I don't currently have a use for it

Best thing if you don't need it.

As you've now discovered you can disable/enable the wireless, both normal and fusion, without resetting the router unlike most other makes.
I do find a use for the Fusion occasionally though :- I have a wireless Windows laptop which, when restarting from hibernation, seems unable to get an IP address via DHCP from the router. It reports an error in the event log , and my guess is that, having come from hibernation it thinks that it was still connected whereas the router has long since disconnected it when it went into hibernation. Anyway, short of waiting about 15mins whilst whatever is borked in Windows sorts itself out, I discovered that making a connection to a different wireless network and then disconnecting and going back to my home network sorts it out instantly. So I temporarily enable the Fusion ( from my wired desktop ), connect to that, disconnect and reconnect to the normal wireless and then disable Fusion.
So it can have it's uses...

Rik · Nov 18, 2009, 15:10:24

So could it also be used to give 'guest access' to the net, while keeping the guests off the main network?

MisterW · Nov 18, 2009, 15:24:03

Yep exactly Rik, it allocates DHCP addresses in a different subnet to the main wired ports and wireless network and it will only route Fusion network traffic to the internet and not to the local network. So anyone connected to the Fusion network can't see anything connected to the normal one.

Rik · Nov 18, 2009, 15:24:56

Making a useful 'feature' on the 2700.

Sebby · Nov 18, 2009, 18:06:24

It's a very useful feature. We get suppliers asking to connect to our wireless all the time when they visit, and it would be good to know they can't access our network.

LesD · Nov 18, 2009, 20:04:25

Maybe this thread should be on the "daughter board". Oops should that now be Sub-board or maybe in the sideboard!

Simon · Nov 18, 2009, 21:53:58

You're right, Les. Mooved.

(Yes, I know I'm milking that joke!)

LesD · Dec 22, 2009, 18:32:37

A question, most likely for MisterW and it is this with Fusion enabled does it connect with the same encrypyion key as the main connection or can it have one of its own say WEP as opposed to my main WPA one?

Rik · Dec 22, 2009, 18:34:34

I believe it can have a separate one, Les, but Mister W or Alan are the people you need.

LesD · Dec 22, 2009, 18:46:32

Thanks Rik I will hang a round and see if they drop by.
I am in no particular rush.

kinmel · Dec 22, 2009, 19:53:53

They each have their own default WEP, which is listed in square brackets on the side of the router

Rik · Dec 23, 2009, 08:42:37

Thanks for than, Alan.

JB · Dec 23, 2009, 09:00:04

I have both normal access and Fusion activated on my twin SSID 2700. I have the normal SSID and passphrase which I use that allows me to connect to any computer or device on my network.

The other, the Fusion SSID and passphrase, I give to people who visit or stay with us. This allows them to browse the Internet but isolates them from my home network.

Works well.

Rik · Dec 23, 2009, 09:03:52

It's ideal for anyone with guests, JB. Another good reason to buy the router...

MisterW · Dec 23, 2009, 19:56:09

Yes, as Alan says they each have their own key and default if the h/w is a dual SSID. If you upgraded a single SSID h/w to V5/6 f/w then the Fusion will still work but goodness knows what the default key is. You can of course change the keys and SSID's on both. The encryption type WPA/WEP etc is changeable on the normal SSID but the Fusion one is fixed to WPA-PSK I believe. Also the Fusion channel is the same as the normal channel.

I occasionally use the Fusion to help get my laptop out of a Windows DHCP bug. It seems that sometimes, when coming out of hibernation, DHCP doesnt want to get an IP from the router ( probably still thinks it sort of has one

). Connecting to another network, disconnecting and then reconnecting to the original, sorts it!. Temporarily enabling the Fusion for this trick saves waiting about 10 mins for DHCP to time itself out.

JB · Dec 24, 2009, 09:34:38

Quote from: MisterW on Dec 23, 2009, 19:56:09
The encryption type WPA/WEP etc is changeable on the normal SSID but the Fusion one is fixed to WPA-PSK I believe. Also the Fusion channel is the same as the normal channel.

Does anyone know how to change the allocated range of IP addresses on the Fusion channel? My normal DHCP range on the standard network wireless channel is set, by me, to 192.168.0.30 to 192.168.0.45 but the Fusion channel always allocates in the range 192.168.1.xxx. I know it should be a different range but haven't come across where it can be manually set.

MisterW · Dec 24, 2009, 10:27:45

I'm not aware of any facility to change the DHCP range on the Fusion network.

JB · Dec 24, 2009, 10:35:27

Thanks. I can't find a way either.

kinmel · Dec 24, 2009, 11:39:08

You can't change the range for automatic DHCP in Fusion, but you can assign an IP to Fusion devices in V6 routers, not sure about V5 though.

In V6, once the device has connected via Fusion and is listed on page http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=BT_FUSION, you can change the IP on page http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_2_4

If you allocate a fixed IP on the device's own network connection that will be used by Fusion

JB · Dec 24, 2009, 11:43:35

Sorry, I should have said my 2700's are flashed with V5.29.107.12 firmware.