Is it just me?

old Bill · Mar 03, 2007, 21:45:37

Back on the mobile again. Have lost all service for about the last 30 min. Anyone else or is it just me again ? I knew it was going to well my connection had been stable for 1.5 days.

siege2 · Mar 03, 2007, 21:50:36

Hi old bill

my connection got lost around 16 05 hours only that loss

all ok since IDNET installed new router

old Bill · Mar 03, 2007, 22:00:58

Well I have a sort of connection back but my stats are lousy now. I am going to have a big rethink about BB might go back to dial up it will be quicker and more reliable.
   Downstream   Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):   10.3    7.0
Attenuation (dB):   48.0    30.0

Adam · Mar 03, 2007, 22:56:20

Just wondering here; have you given any thought to a 256k fixed service Bill? I haven't read all your history, so I'm sorry if it's not possible for you to get such a service or if the problem is something totally different than what I am thinking.

Adam

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 00:30:01

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 03, 2007, 22:00:58
Well I have a sort of connection back but my stats are lousy now. I am going to have a big rethink about BB might go back to dial up it will be quicker and more reliable.
   Downstream   Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):   10.3    7.0
Attenuation (dB):   48.0    30.0

On those figures, Bill, you should be able to get 3000-3500kbps. I understand you'd like more, I would too, but I'm not going to get it with my line. I think going back to dial-up is not really practical, you posted the other day that you need to make big downloads. Even a 1000kbps profile is a lot faster than a 56k modem. Ultimately, you will have to decide whether you want speed but an unstable line, or a stable line with a bit less speed. As Adam says, you could go for a fixed-rate 256k or 512k service, but you're line stats would give you a 1Mbps connection with no problems.

siege2 · Mar 04, 2007, 00:34:28

could Simon, get BT to put the profile at 2 meg or 1 meg etc for stability ?

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 00:36:30

I don't know whether it can be done that way, Seige, but they can get the target noise margin tweaked upward in 3db increments. I had mine raised to 9db and the line very rarely drops now.

siege2 · Mar 04, 2007, 00:41:53

Hi Rik

when i tried the 8 meg pack in January I found I had a stuck profile off 2 meg, think I spoke to Andrew ? which we spoke off getting the profile moved to 6500 and they sorted it.
then back onto 2meg....

maybe going back onto 8meg later when pipe settles in

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 00:57:07

The new central really shouldn't affect your profile, Siege. This is set by BT to reflect the condition of your line. It's not fixed, if you start dropping the connection the line management software will reduce your profile, once you maintain a higher sync speed for three days, it will increase it again. BT does have this thing called 'blip logic', which is supposed to detect isolated low-sync events, and the profile will recover in about 75 minutes in this case.

Glenn · Mar 04, 2007, 08:52:16

My connection dropped around 5 pm yesterday and about 7am this morning, the router reconnected after a couple of minutes

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 09:21:55

Changed router again, back to the Belkin I have managed to get the sync rate back up to 5120. IF it stays stable for the next 3 days my profile should go back up. If not then I will not waste any more money or time on my line. I will go to Orange and pay £5.00 PM sadly thats how much I feel my line is worth now. Its not Idnets fault they have done all they can. A fixed rate line is just to slow for what I need to download but I am not going to waste any more money.

sandman · Mar 04, 2007, 11:19:00

Hi Bill

Apologies if I am not up to speed on your problem,but I am new to IdNet. Can I ask if you have been in a position to leave your router connected to your master socket for a period of time? I say this because I had a similar problem with an erratic connection last year. This was caused by the extension wiring that runs around the outside of the house slowly degrading, it had been there for fifteen years. Also moisture ( rain ) was a contributing factor. So the cable was replaced and the problem went away, but not before I had torn out a few of my remaining hairs

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 11:31:06

Quote from: Glenn on Mar 04, 2007, 08:52:16
My connection dropped around 5 pm yesterday and about 7am this morning, the router reconnected after a couple of minutes

Mine was similar, but about an hour earlier in each case, presumably as 'chunks' of us were moved.

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 11:36:49

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 04, 2007, 09:21:55
If not then I will not waste any more money or time on my line. I will go to Orange and pay £5.00 PM sadly thats how much I feel my line is worth now. Its not Idnets fault they have done all they can. A fixed rate line is just to slow for what I need to download but I am not going to waste any more money.

Hi Bill

I understand how you feel, but if you do go to Orange, your underlying problems will still be there, so you won't necessarily gain anything, except a cheaper package. From my experience of Orange support, if you do need it, you may find the experience very frustrating. Also, I think Orange tie you to a 12 month contract, so if you're unhappy, you are, sadly, also stuck.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with your problem. If only BT had a USO for ADSL, we'd all be a lot better off.

jaydub · Mar 04, 2007, 11:37:29

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 04, 2007, 09:21:55
Changed router again, back to the Belkin I have managed to get the sync rate back up to 5120. IF it stays stable for the next 3 days my profile should go back up. If not then I will not waste any more money or time on my line. I will go to Orange and pay £5.00 PM sadly thats how much I feel my line is worth now. Its not Idnets fault they have done all they can. A fixed rate line is just to slow for what I need to download but I am not going to waste any more money.

Bill.

What's your SNR margin set at with BT. IDNet can get it bumped in 3dB lumps up to a maximum of 15dB.

Sorry, if this has been covered before.

I really think you will struggle getting any level of service out of Orange. I believe you were with Zen before IDNet and nobody else is likely to provide the same level of support in getting to the bottom of your problems.

Have you tried a tool such as http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm to try and track your SNR margin. It's a bit tweaky to set up, but provides useful information on your line conditions.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 12:05:25

Oh well lost connection again today. My stats are as follows

4736       832
Noise margin (dB)
8.6       9.0
I have now tried everything . New routers, new cable, Master socket filter plate. The router is plugged direct in the the main socket. The only thing which I cannot replace is my line sadly. I dont want to leave Idnet but just feel that the best part of £90.00 pm for the package I am on is not worth it with the line and speeds I have. Now that I have switched back to the Belkin its telling me I still have a line problem (surprise). If anyone can think of any thing else I can try please feel free ,at the moment I just dont know what to do apart from go back to a fixed line.

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 12:17:11

Hi Bill

Sorry, but I can't remember if you have an NTE5 master socket. If you do, try using the test socket to connect to, if that helps, then your internal wiring is contributing to the problem, so a filtered faceplate might help further. However, I feel that the real issue is that you want speed and stability, and your line will just not support both at the same time.

Lance · Mar 04, 2007, 12:34:37

Quote from: sandman on Mar 04, 2007, 11:19:00
Hi Bill

Apologies if I am not up to speed on your problem,but I am new to IdNet. Can I ask if you have been in a position to leave your router connected to your master socket for a period of time? I say this because I had a similar problem with an erratic connection last year. This was caused by the extension wiring that runs around the outside of the house slowly degrading, it had been there for fifteen years. Also moisture ( rain ) was a contributing factor. So the cable was replaced and the problem went away, but not before I had torn out a few of my remaining hairs

Completely off topic but...

Welcome to the forum, Sandman!

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 12:41:58

A welcome is never off topic in my book, Lance.

Belated greetings from me too...

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 12:43:11

Now plugged in to the master socket with a new filter. No change in stats and router still flashing that there is a line problem. So it rules out the internal wiring of the house. The only thing which will solve it is a new line.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 12:43:51

And me to.

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 12:49:05

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 04, 2007, 12:43:11
Now plugged in to the master socket with a new filter. No change in stats and router still flashing that there is a line problem. So it rules out the internal wiring of the house. The only thing which will solve it is a new line.

So it seems your options are:

to go to Orange or another low-cost ISP, and accept the service level

to stay here where you will, at least, get support

to stay here and sacrifice some speed by having your target margin increased

I know none of them is ideal, Bill. Good luck with the decision.

Lance · Mar 04, 2007, 13:13:10

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 04, 2007, 12:43:11
Now plugged in to the master socket with a new filter.

Just to check Bill, do you mean that you have tried plugging directly into the test socket?

Lance · Mar 04, 2007, 13:15:30

Quote from: rikbean on Mar 04, 2007, 12:49:05
So it seems your options are:

to go to Orange or another low-cost ISP, and accept the service level

to stay here where you will, at least, get support

to stay here and sacrifice some speed by having your target margin increased

I know none of them is ideal, Bill. Good luck with the decision.

One more option is to stay here, but to change the package you are pon to one of the cheaper ones.

And of course, the final option is to move house next door to an exchange.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 13:32:14

Yes I removed the lower face plate and plugged in to the test socket. I am quite sure that someware on the line is a break of some sort. As some of the time the line is fine and the rest of the time its just a pain.

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 13:37:11

A break on the line would affect voice, Bill, eg no dial tone. Oddly enough, the ADSL would continue to work unless it was a huge break.

Lance · Mar 04, 2007, 13:38:43

Have you noticed whether it is worse when it rains or when it is quite windy? Either of those are often a sign of a poor connection to the overhead pole, assuming you have a overhead pole and not underground cables.

Although I agree with Rik, that would also affect voice.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 13:47:58

Well its very wet and windy today. Does anyone know the no for BTs quite line test ?

Lance · Mar 04, 2007, 13:50:38

The number is 17070.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 13:56:15

Thanks, Just ran the quite line test. Geting a hissing noise on the line not loud but in the background. Is this normal ? I dont know how quite the line should be.

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 18:26:31

There tends to be some noise, Bill, depending on what sort of phone you're using, but it should be very much in the background. If it's noticeable during a normal call, then there's an issue and you can long a voice fault.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 18:39:48

Sometimes there is noise on the line sometimes not. Have tried resync a fet times today over a period of time but each time the stats have just got worse. Up to about 10 days ago my line was holdong fairly steady but now my noise margin has gone up quite a bit and of course my synce has dropped big time.
Downstream      Upstream
Date rate(Kbps)
4640       832
Noise margin (dB)
8.2       9.0
Output power (dBm)
To be honest I have lost all faith in BT and BB in general. If it was not such a pain I would go back to dial up. I have a Mac code from Idnet from a few weeks ago have not got to much longer to use it. I just dont know weather to Pay a high price for a fixed rate line with Idnet or just to join the cheap and nasty club.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 18:41:56

IF (a very big one) my line stays stabe will the noise margins drop and my sync speed go up, or is it a lost cause now and about 3 meg all I get ?

Rik · Mar 04, 2007, 18:56:43

Afaik, Bill, IDNet would have to request that BT drop the margin. Your profile follows sync speed, but I am not aware of noise margin responding to the line conditions (except upwards, in an attempt to stabilise the line). If your margin did go down, your line would - according to everything you've said - become less stable, and the whole cycle would start again.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 19:30:10

Well even with the higher noise margin the line fault is still flashing like mad. Looks like I will switch back to fixed rate. If that does not work I will go back to a piece of string and a couple of cups I will try fixed rate for a month or so and then maybe try Max again.

old Bill · Mar 04, 2007, 20:17:26

Just had a phone call, lots of background hiss on it. That bad had to hang up and try again

Glenn · Mar 04, 2007, 21:49:11

If you have a hiss on the voice side of the line report it to the supplier (BT?) they can then sort that, tell them it is worse when it rains. Once the interference is sorted, maybe the line will be more stable.

jaydub · Mar 04, 2007, 22:03:50

Quote from: old Bill on Mar 04, 2007, 20:17:26
Just had a phone call, lots of background hiss on it. That bad had to hang up and try again

Well it sounds as though it's either a faulty line or a faulty filter.

Rik · Mar 05, 2007, 01:16:44

Quote from: Glenn on Mar 04, 2007, 21:49:11
If you have a hiss on the voice side of the line report it to the supplier (BT?)

It's worth adding, Bill, that if you do, don't mention you have ADSL to BT.

old Bill · Mar 05, 2007, 13:34:57

C/S reported fault to BT. BT are now running full line check. Just waiting for C/S to contact me. I know what BT will say, everything is within spec. They cant find a brokern line even if it is is danngled in front of them. If that is the case I will switch to a fixed rate line.

Rik · Mar 05, 2007, 13:38:30

Good luck, Bill, I'll cross everything for you.

old Bill · Mar 06, 2007, 15:25:24

Just had the BT man out. The only thing he could find which might be wrong apart from the line was my ADSL Nation filter Plate. He has now swapped it for a BT one and told me to keep a eye on the amount of errors I have on the line. With all the stats I have on my router can anyone tell me what I should be looking out for ?
Thanks
SNR Margin (dB): 9.6 8.0
Attenuation (dB): 48.0 30.0

Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5312 1008
Rate (Kbps): 4736 832
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 149 27
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 12 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 8
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 49441 49439
Super Frame Errors: 1 0
RS Words: 3362034 420231
RS Correctable Errors: 183 12
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 1 N/A
HEC Errors: 1 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 9388567 0
Data Cells: 368855 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 1 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 20 0

Rik · Mar 06, 2007, 16:48:53

Well, those errors are mainly different to the ones I'm used to, Bill, so I can only guess.

Keep an eye on HEC down to Bit errors, see how the numbers fo. I don't know how long the router had been up, and the numbers only mean something relative to uptime, so post back at +24 hours and let's see how they've changed.

What was wrong with the ADSL Nation filter? I'd have a word, it will still be under warranty won't it?

old Bill · Mar 06, 2007, 16:56:55

Thanks Rick,
The router had been running about 1 hour. The BT chap ran a couple of tests and said that there were far more errors using the ADSL Nation filter then the BT one. I Will email ADSL Nation and see what they say.

Rik · Mar 06, 2007, 17:04:27

Those errors, for an hour, don't look significant to me, Bill. Keep an eye on it and post back after 24 hours and we'll have a much better idea. I've always found ADSL Nation stuff to be first-rate, so maybe you have a duff one? Certainly it's worth talking to them...