IE8 ?

Sebby · Nov 01, 2009, 22:45:14

Quote from: Odos on Nov 01, 2009, 15:14:57If your referring to web standards etc, then yes, I would agree, but I think the majority of people couldn't give a fig about web standards etc all they want is a browser thats easy to use and works. You have to admit that IE works on almost every site. And yes I know that web designers have to jump through hoops to make sure their sites work in IE but to the average user thats irrelevant, all they see is a working browser. So to them the statement "IE is the worst" is not a fact if you see what I mean

Okay. It's the worst for web standards and it's the slowest browser - these are both facts. I'd say that they are pretty important features for a browser to have.

Every site only works in IE because web designers have had to hack their code to do so, since it's the most popular browser. I take your point about the average user.

Sebby · Nov 01, 2009, 22:53:24

Quote from: john on Nov 01, 2009, 15:19:33
That depends on whose 'facts' you wish to believe. Like Den I'm not trying to convert anyone but if people prefer not to use IE8 then at least do so for the right reasons:

That's a very bad example. Firstly, it's an extremely simple page, and secondly, it's Google - of course it's going to work across all browsers. A far better comparison would be the Acid3 test.

This is what it should look like if the browser is rendering the page perfectly:

IE8:

Firefox 3.5:

Safari 4:

Google Chrome:

Sebby · Nov 01, 2009, 22:55:22

Quote from: Den on Nov 01, 2009, 15:29:12
That is not to say that what I have is the best, it's just what suits me, so do not tell me that what I have is rubbish just because it does not suite someone else.

I don't disagree with that one bit. So it suits you, and it suits a hell of a lot of others (largely because they don't know what else is out there), but the fact remains that it's a poor browser.

john · Nov 02, 2009, 00:09:45

Quote from: Sebby on Nov 01, 2009, 22:53:24
That's a very bad example. Firstly, it's an extremely simple page, and secondly, it's Google - of course it's going to work across all browsers. A far better comparison would be the Acid3 test.

The point wasn't that it would or wouldn't work across all browsers but to illustrate to bobleslie that there wasn't much difference as he seemed to me (and I think Den) to be confusing the browsers and the MSN homepage.

Whether a browser passes the 'acid test' is somewhat irelevant as IE8 has satisfactorily displayed all the pages I've looked at and whenever I've done tests between IE8 and firefox I could not discern any significant differences in appearance or speed.

I'm not saying that IE8 is better or worse than Firefox just that it's always worked okay for me and I've not seen any reason not to carry on using it.

Sebby · Nov 02, 2009, 00:13:21

Quote from: john on Nov 02, 2009, 00:09:45
Whether a browser passes the 'acid test' is somewhat irelevant as IE8 has satisfactorily displayed all the pages I've looked at and whenever I've done tests between IE8 and firefox I could not discern any significant differences in appearance or speed.

Do you know the reason for that? It's because web developers have to mess around with their code to get pages to display how they should. It's not for any other reason.

Quote from: john on Nov 02, 2009, 00:09:45I'm not saying that IE8 is better or worse than Firefox just that it's always worked okay for me and I've not seen any reason not to carry on using it.

I've no problem with that. Use it and enjoy it - it's still a bad browser, but if you're happy, then nothing else matters I guess.

Den · Nov 02, 2009, 07:37:16

So what the hell does that prove? That a page I am never going to look at or visit does not work on IE8. All the pages I have ever compared work the same on all the browsers that I have run them on. I repeat, it works for me and suits me and until it doesn't then I will carry on using it.

Gary · Nov 02, 2009, 08:19:15

Quote from: Den on Nov 02, 2009, 07:37:16
So what the hell does that prove? That a page I am never going to look at or visit does not work on IE8. All the pages I have ever compared work the same on all the browsers that I have run them on. I repeat, it works for me and suits me and until it doesn't then I will carry on using it.

It proves that Microsoft want the web coded for them, that it makes things harder for others sadly, yes its a preference and we all have our own, but would you want roads that were only to be used by one make of car because of the surface and the tyres you had to use? I'm sure many road builders and car users would be damn annoyed, thats the same for those poor people that have to code for IE8 its not what they want generally. We all have what we like in life, from clothes to music its personal decision, but we should not forget that others may have issues, and not to care because it does not effect us is not the best approach in life. TBH I don't mind what browser anyone uses or what OS, I have my choices you have yours someone else has there's, but when web standards in this case are being manipulated for IE8/7/6 then that's not really good when MS could code more to the standards that are there for a reason, namely uniformity across the web. Anyway enjoy your choice of browser, I'll will enjoy mine, at the end of the day this argument can go on and on, pointlessly. Lets just leave it at you use yours I use mine, and we are all right to an extent with our choices, and sometimes wrong as well, after all no one is perfect thankfully

Steve · Nov 02, 2009, 08:31:23

I think behind it all is the sheer arrogrance and bloody mindedness of MS, who really don't appear to care too much about web standards,they probably still have the most widely used browser. So programmers have little choice but to make it work for IE.

Gary · Nov 02, 2009, 08:45:27

Quote from: stevethegas on Nov 02, 2009, 08:31:23
I think behind it all is the sheer arrogrance and bloody mindedness of MS, who really don't appear to care too much about web standards,they probably still have the most widely used browser. So programmers have little choice but to make it work for IE.

And they always will Steve, well I hope one day that may change, but if MS did code for web standards and dropped active X I would have happily used IE8, the browser has some great features, but I now have to learn some new ones so IE is a fading memory, or will be when the guy from UPS turns up

zappaDPJ · Nov 02, 2009, 09:25:13

I use IE8 because I like its functionality and because I have to. In general I know that if a web page I've created displays as intended in IE8 it'll probably do the same in most other popular browsers. However IE8 users should not take for granted that they are seeing the web through the same eyes as other browser users. Further more those web pages that fail to resolve at all for IE8 users might well be responding for everyone else.

I do have installed the current version of most browsers and I'm actually finding Microsoft's reluctance to conform to web standards is becoming more of an issue than ever before. For example in the last two days alone I've had to purchase goods and services using google Chrome because IE8 failed to render two sites correctly. Last week I identified a major issue in vBulletin's latest forum software. Check out the enclosed screen shot. The browser at the top is IE8, the one below is Chrome. IE8 has failed to render the rounded corners in addition to a number of less obvious problems. This is would be design breaking as far as commercial organisations are concerned as they would be skinning the software to represent their corporate identity.

I do like IE8 but it does cause a lot of problems for web designers that may not be immediately apparent to the average user.

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cavillas · Nov 02, 2009, 10:18:09

I prefer IE8 because it loads in less than a second and displays everything I need very quickly. I have tries IE3 and it takes much longer to load and there is no difference in speed when browsing the web or displaying things.

This sort of "mines better than yours" has been going on since DOS vs windows, MAc vs PC, win 98se vs win 2000, linux vs windows etc etc. None is better than the other, they all have their own quirks, inconsistancies and foibles. The only thing with Windows is the fact that it has managed to evolve and work on such a myriad , diverse and unknown combination of hardware, software, memory and users. That alone is testament to its versatility.

I love all things MS, I never used to but as things have developed they have got better.

Sebby · Nov 02, 2009, 10:22:54

Quote from: Den on Nov 02, 2009, 07:37:16
So what the hell does that prove? That a page I am never going to look at or visit does not work on IE8. All the pages I have ever compared work the same on all the browsers that I have run them on. I repeat, it works for me and suits me and until it doesn't then I will carry on using it.

You've missed the point completely.

But, as I say, if you like it, it doesn't matter.

Sebby · Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:48

Quote from: cavillas on Nov 02, 2009, 10:18:09
This sort of "mines better than yours" has been going on since DOS vs windows, MAc vs PC, win 98se vs win 2000, linux vs windows etc etc. None is better than the other, they all have their own quirks, inconsistancies and foibles. The only thing with Windows is the fact that it has managed to evolve and work on such a myriad , diverse and unknown combination of hardware, software, memory and users. That alone is testament to its versatility.

Honestly, there are better browsers than IE.

Den · Nov 02, 2009, 11:10:38

In your and others opinion but not in mine.

Sebby · Nov 02, 2009, 12:12:19

No, there are better browsers, which is a fact. You just happen to like IE.

talos · Nov 02, 2009, 12:45:00

I would suggest the OP is now thoroughly confused

Sebby · Nov 02, 2009, 13:46:13

Our work here is done.

Den · Nov 02, 2009, 13:50:01

Quote from: Sebby on Nov 02, 2009, 12:12:19
No, there are better browsers, which is a fact. You just happen to like IE.

That is the same as saying "I am right and you are wrong, because somebody said so" even though the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

john · Nov 02, 2009, 13:57:43

Quote from: talos on Nov 02, 2009, 12:45:00
I would suggest the OP is now thoroughly confused

I expect he is and I'd suggest that he ignores all our ~~prejudices~~ opinions and instead downloads and tries several different browsers and chooses the one that suits him best.

Den · Nov 04, 2009, 11:30:00

Well said John on that we all agree.

john · Nov 05, 2009, 13:34:10

Quote from: bobleslie on Oct 31, 2009, 21:30:43
MSN is a bunch of rubbish. Always has been.

I looks like they've read what you said about MSN Bob :

Microsoft reveals new look MSN

MSN Preview

You probably still won't like it and if so don't make it your homepage

Den · Nov 05, 2009, 17:51:42

Still not keen on MSN but still prefer IE8 and have not seen on this thread a reason to change.

Sebby · Nov 05, 2009, 18:11:12

Quote from: john on Nov 05, 2009, 13:34:10
I looks like they've read what you said about MSN Bob :

Microsoft reveals new look MSN

MSN Preview

You probably still won't like it and if so don't make it your homepage

I'll tell you what, it's about time the MSN homepage got a re-design. It's looked the same for I don't know how long. The new design is a lot more modern (i.e. simple) and is far better. I still couldn't see myself changing from Google, though.

D-Dan · Nov 05, 2009, 21:11:51

As a matter of interest - I just installed the FF 3.6 beta - and it is lightening quick at rendering pages. Still only 92/100 on the Acid3 test - but I've never noticed a rendering bug (in 3.5) yet.

I'm not for one minute suggesting people install the beta (it WILL break some plugins and themes, most noticably for me the Google search bar and my Noia theme), but it looks like it could be gaining ground on Opera in terms of sheer rendering speed.

Steve

Sebby · Nov 06, 2009, 00:22:40

Quote from: D-Dan on Nov 05, 2009, 21:11:51
As a matter of interest - I just installed the FF 3.6 beta - and it is lightening quick at rendering pages. Still only 92/100 on the Acid3 test - but I've never noticed a rendering bug (in 3.5) yet.

That's still an impressive score. If you look on the Mozilla forum, there's the reasons why it doesn't score 100, and they're pretty minor things that won't affect very much. It's IE's score that's the worry.