Not happy at all

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 18:34:21

I was told IDnet were supposed to be better than the 'terrible' Orange, but I am still having regular loss of sync.

I play quite a bit of online games so this is terribly annoying.

In the last hour I have lost sync about 4-5 times. Its just not acceptable. My internet may be 1mb faster, but with Orange I hardly ever lost sync.

Rik · Nov 13, 2009, 18:36:53

Sync is purely a local matter, between your router, home phone wiring, wiring to the exchange and the DSLAM or MSAN you connect to at the exchange. IOW it's a BT issue or a problem in your home.

What service were you on with Orange, what service are you on with IDNet. What router are you using, what are your line stats. What else is connected to the phone line?

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 18:41:02

With Orange I had up to 8MB service and I have ADSL Max with IDNet.

Nothing is connected to the phone line at all apart from my internet. The attenuation is exactly the same in the test socket.

Sorry, I am just quite annoyed right now. Dropped out of the game I was playing several times.

Rik · Nov 13, 2009, 18:42:57

Well, as I say, a loss of sync is an issue between you and the exchange, it's not down to iDNet. What are your router's stats?

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 19:02:00

This is what I have for the ADSL stats. Router never seems to display the downstream attenuation.

Noise Margin

12 dB

22 dB

Attenuation

51 dB

--- dB

Rik · Nov 13, 2009, 19:09:21

Well, the obvious things to try are:

1) Use a different microfilter, even though, technically, you're on the unfiltered side of the connection

2) Try a different router, some combinations work better than others

3) Run Routerstats over a 24 hour period to see what exactly is happening when you lose sync

4) Take a battery-powere AM radio, de-tune it so you only have white noise, then follow the phone line from entry to router. Check around your monitor and PC, we often see power supplies that have become noisy.

Your 12db noise margin suggests the line has been unstable, so your speed will be suffering.

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 19:21:38

Thanks.

I'm sure its not the Microfilter. I recently replaced my old one with a ADSL Nation XF-1e.

I don't currently have another router to test with, but I will look into getting a new one.

Routerstats doesn't seem to be compatible with my router.

Looking for a radio right now!

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 19:32:02

Okay, interesting stuff with the radio.

My router is placed near a large power block where many electrical items including my pc are plugged in. Running the radio around here causes heavy crackling and this get much worse close to my PC tower and monitor. Close to my router it also causing a sort of tapping noise.

Could this be the cause of my issues?

I'll try to move the router, but it might be hard due to the length of cables.

Simon · Nov 13, 2009, 19:38:36

Power blocks have certainly been known to cause issues. Is is possible to plug the router directly into the wall socket, and move it as far away from the power block as you practically can?

qweezy · Nov 13, 2009, 19:44:28

I'll try to jig things around.

The main issue is the lack of wall sockets in the room and having lots of things to run. Poking around I can see my DSL cable running right next to 2 8 Power blocks. Cant be good, haha.

I just need to find a longer network cable to reach! I don't use wireless.

Interesting, thinking of interference, I sometimes get radio signal through my 5.1 sound system. Could also be related.

Simon · Nov 13, 2009, 19:57:42

All possible. Let us know how you get on.

Sebby · Nov 14, 2009, 00:11:06

Do you have a long telephone cable going to the router at present, or is the router close to the phone socket and you have a long network cable?

qweezy · Nov 14, 2009, 14:16:14

I have moved the ADSL cable and routed it as far from anything electrical as possible. Still lost sync today.

I have a long ADSL going from my Microfilter and phone socket to the router. The router has one very short ethernet cable to my main computer and one medium length to another computer that isnt used much.

I think the ADSL cable is close to 10m. Its very long, but was needed at one point due to the positioning of my router. Could this be picking up interference due to the length?

Glenn · Nov 14, 2009, 14:54:20

It could especially if it is a flat cable

Lance · Nov 14, 2009, 14:55:57

It is certainly likely, certain if it is a flat one. The ideal would be a short cable from Phone socket to router and the a long Ethernet cable.

If you can dig out a short cable and post your router stats with that in place, we should be able to see what the effect is.

Sebby · Nov 14, 2009, 15:53:09

Quote from: qweezy on Nov 14, 2009, 14:16:14
I think the ADSL cable is close to 10m. Its very long, but was needed at one point due to the positioning of my router. Could this be picking up interference due to the length?

Unfortunately, that's absolutely the worst setup possible. You need a short, shielded telephone lead (preferably 1m or less) and then use a long network cable to connect to the network devices. Would that work for you?

psp83 · Nov 14, 2009, 17:02:21

When i first got ADSL, i used a 25m flat phone line to connect to the phone socket, I soon noticed alot of problems and changed things. I moved the router downstairs next to the phone socket, got a 1.5m shielded RJ11 (looks like something from nasa space shuttle) and then ran network ports around the house with shielded cat5e twisted pair. It took alittle while (and money) but it was worth it in the end.

qweezy · Nov 14, 2009, 18:58:38

Thanks for the help.

I have just got back from work so will try the long ethernet method.

Just to clarify things, the long cable I am reffering to is what goes into the ADSL part on my Microfilter and back to my router.

I know a shorter cable doesnt effect the router stats, the attenuation is the same with a short cable in the master socket.

I suppose it might be causing the dropouts though.

Thanks again.

Rik · Nov 14, 2009, 19:02:44

Forget attenuation, we're talking noise pickup, which is what causes a loss of sync.

Sebby · Nov 14, 2009, 19:38:35

Yep, as Rik says, attenuation is irrelevant here - that's determined by the distance from the exchange to your property. You must use a short cable to the telephone line as a long one will pick up noise and cause instability.

qweezy · Nov 14, 2009, 19:58:07

Okay. I have the router plugged in with a much shorter ADSL cable. About 1-2m.

The attenuation has actually dropped to 49db from 51db, even though irrelevant.

I suppose I will have to see if this setup improves stability.

Its going to be interesting trying to find a permanent place for this router!

Thanks again for the help.

rireed3 · Nov 14, 2009, 23:04:48

It sounds like the old RJ11 cable was dodgy to the point of adding to your attenuation, regardless of whether the test socket was used. Remember, at 49 db, the 3.6 km telephone line is responsible for nearly all 49 db attenuation, while your old dodgy RJ11 cable added 2 db, or the equivalent of 146 m of your telephone line.

The next thing to see is if the test socket increases your noise margin at the same sync rate, or the same noise margin at a higher sync rate compared to using the master covered up.

If the test socket makes an increase in noise margin or sync rate, it means that unused but wired extensions are dumping noise into your line, probably through a wired 'ringer' connection on terminal 3 of the master socket lower cover. I know that such unused wires can cause trouble even if fairly short. Mine was about 4 metres long and robbed me of 3 db noise margin.

Richard

qweezy · Nov 15, 2009, 19:46:03

Hi guys,

Just thought I would report that there has been no loss of sync for nearly 24 hours since I switched to the shorter cable.

Hopefully this thread might be of help to anyone else having similar issues. Interference was something I had never thought of!

I should mention that my service with IDnet has been absolutely perfect. This issue was my only issue and would most likely of continued to be a problem if I didn't have help off of IDnet's forum. Anyone reading this thread should disregard my initial comments about IDnet as the fault was all my own and if they are with Orange they can be assured that IDnet provides a much better service.

Thanks for the help.

BrianM · Nov 15, 2009, 19:56:07

Glad you're sorted qweezy. ' if they are with Orange they can be assured that IDnet provides a much better service.' I can second that from experience.

Glenn · Nov 15, 2009, 20:06:21

Good to hear everything is working Qweezy

Ray · Nov 15, 2009, 21:08:39

That's good to hear, Qweezy.

Simon · Nov 15, 2009, 22:25:38

Glad it seems to be sorted, Qweezy.

Sebby · Nov 15, 2009, 23:09:10

Great to hear, Qweezy. Noise pickup is the most common cause of instability problems.

Lance · Nov 15, 2009, 23:42:53

Good to hear you've made progress, Qweezy!

Rik · Nov 16, 2009, 08:34:27

Great news, Qweezy, thanks for posting back.