Am I able to get around 5.5Mb/s?

[T_M_D]

Hi there,

I am very happy with my 4.4Mb/s consistent since Friday evening at about 6pm when I went 'live' with IDNet and I feel a little greedy asking this, but is it possible I could get it even higher? My son has advised me to leave the router on 24/7 for a few days to see 'how it settles'.

Here are my Netgear stats (tried to insert image, but couldn't do it):

----------------------------------------------
Domain Name Server  212.69.40.3
212.69.36.3
   
LAN Port
MAC Address  00:1F:33:86:21:62
IP Address  192.168.0.1
DHCP  On
IP Subnet Mask  255.255.255.0
   
Modem 
ADSL Firmware Version A2pB023b.d20e
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 5984 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps
VPI 0
VCI 38
   
Wireless Port 
Name (SSID) NETGEARTMD
Region Europe
Channel 11
Wireless AP Enabled
Broadcast Name Enabled
----------------------------------------------------

Thanks. Tina.

[Tacitus]

Hi Tina:

The info we need in order to advise you, are the attenuation and the SNR (signal to Noise Ratio).  The former will be something like 40dB and, the latter will have figures for upstream and downstream and will be something like 9dB/18dB.

The numbers quoted are indicative so you know what you are looking for. The actual numbers in your case my be higher or lower.   I'm not sure where to find them on a Netgear as I don't use one, but a little exploration should get you there.  

[T_M_D]

Thanks. Got it:

System Up Time 01:58:47
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 12096 17552 0 456 2291 01:58:07
LAN 10M/100M 2124 0 0 25 0 01:58:39
WLAN 11M/54M/270M 22573 15279 0 2677 545 01:58:31


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5984 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 44.0 db 23.0 db
Noise Margin 15.1 db 15.0 db

[kinmel]

That 15dB noise margin should be 6dB, try a router re-boot and see if that improves the figure, if not ask support to investigate.  The margin does not change just because it is a new connection

[Lance]

If you leave the router on 24/7 and your line is stable, you're likely to achieve about 7mb when the noise margin reduces.

[T_M_D]

If you leave the router on 24/7 and your line is stable, you're likely to achieve about 7mb when the noise margin reduces.

Wow. That would be phenomenal. It was 5Mb/s tops with O2 - and that was only early hours of mornings til aound 7am. Will leaving the router on 24/7 reduce the noise or is it def a modem reboot required? I am a bit nervous to do that in case I upset my current 4.4Mb/s - also, I don't actually know how to reboot a router...I am willing to try it though...

[T_M_D]

That 15dB noise margin should be 6dB, try a router re-boot and see if that improves the figure, if not ask support to investigate.  The margin does not change just because it is a new connection

Thanks for the advice. 

[Rik]

It looks like you've been the victim of BT's line management software, Tina. As Lance says, leave the router on 24/7 - this is vital - after 14 days, if the connection remains stable, the margin will be reduced by 3db, after another 14 days by a further 3db, and then another 14 days to reach 6db. Each 3db is worth 5-7k of connection speed. Note that this will not work unless the router remains connected for 14 days continuously and your error count is low. It's highly unlikely that support can get BT to reduce the margin manually, as BT will normally only do this when they clear a fault. Nonetheless, it will do no harm to ask, but I'd recommend the 'organic' approach first. If BT do manually reduce the target noise margin, they seem to go straight back to 15db with any error condition.

How is your router connected to the phone line, eg an extension, and what else is connected to the line?

[T_M_D]

Ok Rik, will do that. Believe me, going from 0.2-0.5Mb/s with O2 for two months then getting 4.4Mb/s is brilliant so I can certainly try the 'organic' route you recommend and leave my router on. I won't ask BT to help at all as I really, really HATE contacting them and only do so when I really, really HAVE to!

Thanks. Tina.

[Lance]

And to reboot the router,  if you haven't got the option with the software disconnect it from the power socket

[Lance]

It would be Idnet you contact, who speak to BT on your behalf. BT won't talk toyoi at all as it is Idnet who provvide the service.

[Rik]

You never need to contact BT, Tina, you always talk to IDNet. Iff you move your voice line across, you'll save a bit of money and still be talking to IDNet if you get a fault. My line became noisy and IDNet had an engineer here within two hours, problem solved.

[Tacitus]

It would be Idnet you contact, who speak to BT on your behalf. BT won't talk toyoi at all as it is Idnet who provvide the service.

And iDNet are much nicer people to deal with.....  

[T_M_D]

And to reboot the router,  if you haven't got the option with the software disconnect it from the power socket

Thanks for that - I will take a good look around my Netgear set-up to see if I can find it, but I will use the power option if I can't. I have decided not to reboot it and just leave it on 24/7 for a few weeks. My area is a little prone to power cuts so presumably when that does happen, it will reboot the router by proxy...? Hope that doesn't upset things, but guess I have no control whatsoever on that one!

[Lance]

I've never used a netgear, but I don't think that they have the option. Indeed a power cut will reboot it!

[T_M_D]

And iDNet are much nicer people to deal with.....  

If the people in support are as nice as the administrators on this forum and the top netters then I quite believe it...

[T_M_D]

You never need to contact BT, Tina, you always talk to IDNet. Iff you move your voice line across, you'll save a bit of money and still be talking to IDNet if you get a fault. My line became noisy and IDNet had an engineer here within two hours, problem solved.

Nice sales pitch Rik! Tell me more, I am definitely interested in it...

[T_M_D]

How is your router connected to the phone line, eg an extension, and what else is connected to the line?
[/quote]

Oops, nearly missed replying to this: I have Sky Plus TV and the line for that is plugged into one side of the filter and the modem into the other side of it. My telephone is next to the router - perhaps I should move it? I think my BT port socket on the wall is probably pretty old.

[Glenn]

Tina, does the master socket look this http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,1904.msg31528.html#msg31528

[Rik]

Thanks for that - I will take a good look around my Netgear set-up to see if I can find it, but I will use the power option if I can't. I have decided not to reboot it and just leave it on 24/7 for a few weeks. My area is a little prone to power cuts so presumably when that does happen, it will reboot the router by proxy...? Hope that doesn't upset things, but guess I have no control whatsoever on that one!

Get a small UPS, Tina, well worth it if you have a poor mains feed.

[Rik]

If the people in support are as nice as the administrators on this forum and the top netters then I quite believe it...

(They are, btw. )

[Rik]

Nice sales pitch Rik! Tell me more, I am definitely interested in it...

The rates are here:

http://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/phone/

They're competitive compared to BT, no 12 month contract, no interruption to service, it's merely a billing (and support) change.

[Ray]

Seconded

[Rik]

Oops, nearly missed replying to this: I have Sky Plus TV and the line for that is plugged into one side of the filter and the modem into the other side of it. My telephone is next to the router - perhaps I should move it? I think my BT port socket on the wall is probably pretty old.

Are you in your first 12 months with Sky, Tina, or do you have multiroom? If not, then unplug the box, it can make a world of difference. (BTW, running Sky+ on a UPS can be a good investment too).

[T_M_D]

Tina, does the master socket look this http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,1904.msg31528.html#msg31528

Hi Glenn,

the face plate is not split in two like in the picture, it is one piece and is 2.5" square with a screw to both sides. The screws are directly either side of the jack socket. There is the old British Telecom Logo in the bottom right corner - I have just looked up BT's logos on Wiki and it says it was the logo between 1980-1991 so I guess that puts the socket at at least 18 years old! I suppose the wiring inside could be newer? I wouldn't have a clue about that though and would be terrified to go anywhere near those tiny weeny wires inside the socket!

Tina.

[T_M_D]

Get a small UPS, Tina, well worth it if you have a poor mains feed.

I will certainly look into it Rik - thanks.

[Glenn]

Hi Glenn,

the face plate is not split in two like in the picture, it is one piece and is 2.5" square with a screw to both sides. The screws are directly either side of the jack socket. There is the old British Telecom Logo in the bottom right corner - I have just looked up BT's logos on Wiki and it says it was the logo between 1980-1991 so I guess that puts the socket at at least 18 years old! I suppose the wiring inside could be newer? I wouldn't have a clue about that though and would be terrified to go anywhere near those tiny weeny wires inside the socket!

Tina.

OK so you have an older style, and won't have a test socket available if you need to use it in the future. It's not a problem, support would have asked you to connect to it if there was a problem with noise, to eliminate your house wiring.

[T_M_D]

Are you in your first 12 months with Sky, Tina, or do you have multiroom? If not, then unplug the box, it can make a world of difference. (BTW, running Sky+ on a UPS can be a good investment too).

I've been with Sky for a few years now (TV only - wouldn't go with them for anything else), I don't have multiroom. I turn the box off before I go to bed (or do you mean remove it from the phone socket?), I leave the box on in the day to record things. Why is UPS good for Sky + - does it save on electricity? Tina.

[Rik]

Don't touch it, Tina, BT own all of that socket and it's technically illegal to mess with it.

[T_M_D]

Don't touch it, Tina, BT own all of that socket and it's technically illegal to mess with it.

Oooer, shan't.

[Rik]

OTOH, it's possible to get filtered face plates and they are a doddle to fit, you just have to take them off if BT are coming.

[T_M_D]

OTOH, it's possible to get filtered face plates and they are a doddle to fit, you just have to take them off if BT are coming.

Hee hee, I like that idea. I have no idea what the benefits are of a filtered face plate - better line quality/less chance of noise?

[Rik]

Less chance of noise, the voice side is separated at entry from the ADSL.

[Rik]

Oh, have we mentioned the ring wire to you? Check if you have a wire on terminal three (it's usually orange/white, but it's the terminal which matters). If you do, disconnect at each socket by gently pulling it upwards, away from the faceplate.

[Rik]

I've been with Sky for a few years now (TV only - wouldn't go with them for anything else), I don't have multiroom. I turn the box off before I go to bed (or do you mean remove it from the phone socket?), I leave the box on in the day to record things. Why is UPS good for Sky + - does it save on electricity? Tina.

Sorry, missed the reply. Sky boxes are notorious for putting noise on phone lines, so unless you use interactive services a lot, unplug it from the phone line. By turn off, I hope you mean put into standby, as software updates are generally done at night.

Why the UPS, because a Sky+ box is a computer, so a mains surge or brief outage can cause mayhem. A UPS protects it and tends to make the box more reliable.

[Rik]

Something like this would be ideal for both router and Sky+:

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=396826&sku=163303

[T_M_D]

Oh, have we mentioned the ring wire to you? Check if you have a wire on terminal three (it's usually orange/white, but it's the terminal which matters). If you do, disconnect at each socket by gently pulling it upwards, away from the faceplate.

wouldn't dare take off the faceplate let alone pull any wires out..

[Rik]

It's easier than it sounds, honest.

[T_M_D]

Sorry, missed the reply. Sky boxes are notorious for putting noise on phone lines, so unless you use interactive services a lot, unplug it from the phone line. By turn off, I hope you mean put into standby, as software updates are generally done at night.

Why the UPS, because a Sky+ box is a computer, so a mains surge or brief outage can cause mayhem. A UPS protects it and tends to make the box more reliable.

I see what you mean about unplugging it from the phone socket. I will do that, though I had heard they know when it's been done and get shirty about it and send letters saying it shouldn't be done. However, as I don't much use interactive services then I will give it a go. Afraid I turn it off rather than leave it in standby as I assumed it would just download any updates done overnight onto my box when I turned it back on in the morning. Guess I was wrong so duly noted. Thanks.

[Rik]

They're not interested unless you are in contract or on multiroom. Outside the 1 year point with a single box, they can't enforce the connection, or even request it. Sky+ boxes are designed to be run or in standby 24/7, so you'll get more life from it if you just use standby.

[MisterW]

I will do that, though I had heard they know when it's been done and get shirty about it and send letters saying it shouldn't be done.

I'll agree with Rik there. Mine's never been plugged into the phone socket since the initial 12 month contract was up, and that's some years ago...

[Rik]

Mine didn't last about half an hour after the engineer leaving.

[Sebby]

I've never used a netgear, but I don't think that they have the option. Indeed a power cut will reboot it!

It's in diagnostics.

[Sebby]

OTOH, it's possible to get filtered face plates and they are a doddle to fit, you just have to take them off if BT are coming.

The other option is to see if you can get BT to fit you one of the new style NTE5 sockets for free. Tell them you want to fit extensions but you can't because you have an old socket.

[T_M_D]

It's easier than it sounds, honest.

Okaaay, I will bear it in mind if I have to do it for any reason any time. BTW have compared prices with BT regarding line rental and IDNet are more expensive for the unlimited evenings and weekends line rental so maybe when it comes down in price...

[Rik]

As with all phone tariffs, it's a matter of what fits your usage pattern. Shame.

[Tacitus]

The other option is to see if you can get BT to fit you one of the new style NTE5 sockets for free. Tell them you want to fit extensions but you can't because you have an old socket.

Good idea Seb.  OR should provide a new NTE5a with the built in iPlate, which would mean the bottom half could be replaced with an XTE-2005. 

Now if Tina plied the OR man with cups of tea and just happened to have a modified face plate available, the OR guy might even do it for her....   

[Rik]

It usually works, though sometimes you have to put out for a bacon butty.

[davej99]

I always switch of my sky box at night and when away. Still get updates. Removed phone lead after twelve months. It stops the box phoning home and receiving incoming calls from Sky. Used to plug it back in to get a pay per view. Now ended subscription and kept card for Freesat from Sky.

I have a netgear router and switching off the power or the odd power cut does not seem to upset it. It sends a message to say it is about to turn off and the exchange is warned. I suggest leaving it on for a few weeks to stabilize the line. I turn off when going away in case there are multiple power dips, thunder etc. and if these events occur when at home. There is a concern if the router is turned off too often in a short time the profile will be lost. Best time to turn on a router and get a high sync is late morning when noise it at its lowest. Early/mid evening is not a good time.

Please excuse me if I am insulting your knowledge, TMS. Before getting started on the tips and wrinkles to get the best speed, it might be helpful to know your phone wiring configuration. Are there extention outlets in other rooms or places and how are they connected? If they are DIY, they should be plugged into the front of the main BT socket with a filter at the other end. Or they should be plugged into a filter connected to the main socket. There could be a mix when using a DIY extention kit which also provides a pass through socket at the main outlet to other phones and appliances.

All connection must pass through a filter at some stage and the sooner the better to reduce noise. If you can fix all extentions to connect to a filter at the main BT outlet, that is the best. And that is the best place to connect a router, with a shortish lead. Long flat router cables can be noisy.

There is the possibility BT have fitted hard wired extentions, or this could have been done covertly. Wires sometimes run on the surface and into the case of the main BT outlet. Sometimes they are in the wall. Remember there must be a filter at the other end in this type of arrangement.

If the main BT outlet is damaged, cracked or loose, as if hit by a vac or a chair, BT might be disposed to fix it. If a split faceplate can be arranged that is ideal. I think you are right to avoid fiddling if you are not confident, or until you can enlist help at home.

[T_M_D]

Thanks Dave, Rik, Seb and Tacitus for all your comments, all of which are duly noted. I have very little knowledge regarding comms, but I am quite handy really, I can wire a plug, fit a dimmer switch, do a bit of basic plumbing, hang a new door (Ace Painter and Decorator) and I was a pretty good IT bod in the days of MS DOS - oh and I make a mean bacon butty and very good tea when required What I am trying to say in a long-winded way, is that if I knew what I was doing, I would be happy to install a new socket. I think I like the idea of the easy-to-fit one that was mentioned (Rik I think it was who mentioned it, sorry, can't seem to find the text).

I have had my sky phone line unplugged since yesterday, speed tests are still very consitent at 4.4Mb/s since changing to IDNet. My downstream noise margin is currently 14.8db, upstream 17db. There was very bad crackling on phone line around 3-4 months ago and I could hear faint echos of other people's conversations sometimes when I was on the phone to someone and I could also hear the Multi-Frequency dialling tones of someone else making a call as well. This problem was fixed though, BT in the end had to come and dig up the road to trace the problem, which turned out to be waterlogging. There also was a problem with 'unbalanced lines' (BT engineer said this meant that one of the two lines between telegraph poles was longer than the other due to slackening off) which I think was sorted also by BT, though I could not be sure.

Dave - I only have an ADSL filter in the phone socket and the phone line is in one side, the router in another, you aren't insulting my knowledge as I have very little regarding comms stuff (learning little-by-little though thanks to you guys).

I don't think I will engage with BT at all unless I really have to.  Tina.

[davej99]

I only have an ADSL filter in the phone socket and the phone line is in one side, the router in another, you aren't insulting my knowledge as I have very little regarding comms stuff (learning little-by-little though thanks to you guys).

In that case, there's not too much to worry about concerning extention wiring, short of ensuring you have a good quality soap on a rope filter, eg from ADSL Nation, and keeping the router cable short.

If you do a BT SPEEDTEST regularly you can plot your sync speed, profile and actual download speed. The sync will improve first and then the rest. This is the only way to check your profile. The sync can be checked from your router. It is also a good idea to check using a cable connection rather than wireless, just to be sure it is working OK.

Some speed testers can be eratic and everyone has their favourite. My suggestion is THINK BROADBAND. You need to register but then you can rate IDNET, so we can keep them up the rankings, and it is easy to plot the results.

[T_M_D]

Some speed testers can be eratic and everyone has their favourite. My suggestion is THINK BROADBAND. You need to register but then you can rate IDNET, so we can keep them up the rankings, and it is easy to plot the results.

Funny you should say that as I have recently signed up to Think Broadband and just done my first speed test with it. I agree about the erratic nature of the different speed testers, I have regularly used Broadbandspeedchecker and speedtest.net and they can be pretty varied in their results when compared to each other.

[Sebby]

There was very bad crackling on phone line around 3-4 months ago and I could hear faint echos of other people's conversations sometimes when I was on the phone to someone and I could also hear the Multi-Frequency dialling tones of someone else making a call as well. This problem was fixed though, BT in the end had to come and dig up the road to trace the problem, which turned out to be waterlogging. There also was a problem with 'unbalanced lines' (BT engineer said this meant that one of the two lines between telegraph poles was longer than the other due to slackening off) which I think was sorted also by BT, though I could not be sure.

Tell BT you have intermittent crosstalk still; they may swap you over to a new pair.

[Lance]

The crosstalk has already been fixes, Sebby

[Rik]

Hi Tina

Dial 17070 and select option 2, 'Quiet line test'. Do you hear anything there other than a slight hum of hiss. If you do, report the fault as a voice fault without mentioning ADSL. Particularly, mention being able to hear other people from time to time. The standard cure for that is to swap the exchange pair - the two physical wires which connect you to the exchange. That may make things better, it may not, you can end up with a worse pair. Otherwise, just wait for the BT system to do its job.

[Sebby]

The crosstalk has already been fixes, Sebby

BT don't need to know that.

[T_M_D]

Hi Tina

Dial 17070 and select option 2, 'Quiet line test'. Do you hear anything there other than a slight hum of hiss. If you do, report the fault as a voice fault without mentioning ADSL. Particularly, mention being able to hear other people from time to time. The standard cure for that is to swap the exchange pair - the two physical wires which connect you to the exchange. That may make things better, it may not, you can end up with a worse pair. Otherwise, just wait for the BT system to do its job.

Hiya. Tried the test and only very slight hiss. You know, I think the BT engineer might well have swapped the exchange pair as I certainly haven't had the echos since the noise fault. I would hate to report it and end up switched back to the bad line! You know, when all's said and done, I reckon I am pretty happy with my 4Mb/s + and so I won't rock the boat. I will keep my router on 24/7 anyway and I will keep my Sky line disconnected. As long as I can do my learning stuff online and browse content-rich sites without having to make a cup of coffee waiting for pages to download and I can do stuff without regular freeze ups, what more could a girl ask for? Apart from a tall, dashing, rich guy in my stocking for Christmas maybe...?

[Lance]

Apart from a tall, dashing, rich guy i

Well, I'm tall and dashing. Not quite rich though!

[T_M_D]

Well, I'm tall and dashing. Not quite rich though!

2 out of 3 isn't bad - you'll do!!! 

[Lance]

[Rik]

Well, I'm tall and dashing. Not quite rich though!

I'm not tall, only dash in emergencies and am not rich, so I guess that rules me out completely.

[Tacitus]

I think you guys should form an orderly queue......   

[Rik]

I just went to the back.

[Sebby]

[T_M_D]

[T_M_D]

[T_M_D]

I'm not tall, only dash in emergencies and am not rich, so I guess that rules me out completely.

Aw, shame, I have to have at least the tall bit being 5ft 11 myself 

[Tacitus]

Aw, shame, I have to have at least the tall bit being 5ft 11 myself  

I could always stand on Yellow Pages....

[T_M_D]

I could always stand on Yellow Pages....

I'll start collecting them then, I had a new one delivered just the other day 

[Lance]

I'm 6ft 3

[T_M_D]

I'm 6ft 3

That'll do nicely! 

[Rik]

Hi Tina

Put Lance down, he's spoken for.

[T_M_D]

Hi Tina

Put Lance down, he's spoken for.

Aw, spoil sport 

[Lance]