Is IDNET now poor value for money ?

[Rik]

Great ad. 

[Glenn]

Same here Lona, we seem to lag well behind the cities, but curiously the MOD base up the road has a super-fast system, wish I could plug in an extension.

You can have the access, but you have to use their IT support, it's dire from what my friend tells me at Cosford. Even the worst ISP look great in comparision.

[wrtpeeps]

IDNET are unfortunately still limited by BT's equipment, which means you are paying more for less than someone on LLU.

I pay 7 quid a month for O2 8meg and it's unlimited downloads, for this on IDNET would cost me a fortune.

However when I was on IDNET, it's definitely reliable, I've had a couple of problems with O2 but nothing major.

To cut a long story short, IDNet can compete in exchanges without the big llu players being there, but if you have Be* or O2 available then I'm afraid the prices at idnet are blown out of the water.

[Gary]

IDNET are unfortunately still limited by BT's equipment, which means you are paying more for less than someone on LLU.

I pay 7 quid a month for O2 8meg and it's unlimited downloads, for this on IDNET would cost me a fortune.

However when I was on IDNET, it's definitely reliable, I've had a couple of problems with O2 but nothing major.

To cut a long story short, IDNet can compete in exchanges without the big llu players being there, but if you have Be* or O2 available then I'm afraid the prices at idnet are blown out of the water.

I would agree, but I also pay for a one month rolling contract, and O2's DNS servers are not know for reliability even on LLU, I used to be on O2 LLU with them till I moved, I live at a BT only exchange now. O2 are now implementation a throttling of heavy users as they cannot support the demand for bandwidth due to that all you can eat policy on the access sides, this may spread to LLU as the network becomes congested sadly

[davej99]

I got my invoice today and noticed I had gone over my 5GB allowance. I had reinstalled windows and various programmes generating quite a lot of update activity. That rather brought home to me what poor value for money 5Gb for £17.99 represents, not least when I run under. An increased peak allowance and some form of carry over would definitely be welcome soon. We live in a world where Moore's Law abounds, but, I have not noticed it applying to my broadband service as I approach my two year anniversary.

[Rik]

That's mainly because BT's pricing structure doesn't follow Moore's Law, Dave. Hopefully, there will be some better news in the New Year, but at the moment, the harsh economics are that BT charge more for bandwidth on Max than they do on WBC.

[Gary]

That's mainly because BT's pricing structure doesn't follow Moore's Law, Dave. Hopefully, there will be some better news in the New Year, but at the moment, the harsh economics are that BT charge more for bandwidth on Max than they do on WBC.

hat I fear will cause issue as a gulf open sup between those on WBC and those who may actually never get it, when BT say no date exsists for WBc that means what? You never get adsl2+ so you are stuck with older technology at a higher price, even though that is the nature of the beast, and not IDnets fault people will probably not see it that way 

[Rik]

Just wait till the New Year, Gary.

[davej99]

That's mainly because BT's pricing structure doesn't follow Moore's Law, Dave. Hopefully, there will be some better news in the New Year, but at the moment, the harsh economics are that BT charge more for bandwidth on Max than they do on WBC.

That is a predictable answer that serves to antagonise more than ameliorate. If you are saying that no increase in allowance over two years is down to BT, then you are suggesting that IDNET has done nothing to improve operating efficiencies over that period, or if it has, it has not shared them with the customer.

[Rik]

What improvements would you suggest, Dave?

[Gary]

Just wait till the New Year, Gary.

Will do, Rik. 

[davej99]

What improvements would you suggest, Dave?

On my ADSL line Newnet seem to offer 12GB for £17.56 compared with IDNET's 5GB for £17.61 at present, with I presume similar BTW ADSL.

[Rik]

What are their WBC packages like, Dave?

[davej99]

What are their WBC packages like, Dave?

I have only looked at ADSL, which is all I can get here.

[Glenn]

Max http://www.newnet.co.uk/broadband/home.php

ADSL2+ http://www.newnet.co.uk/broadband/home24.php

[Rik]

They may have chosen to use WBC to cross-subsidise Max, I don't know. I do know that the largest element of IDNet's costs are the money they pay to BT, and that limits their room for manoeuvre. That said, BT prices should be coming down next month, so maybe IDNet will be in a better situation to restructure their tariffs after that.

[davej99]

They may have chosen to use WBC to cross-subsidise Max, I don't know. I do know that the largest element of IDNet's costs are the money they pay to BT, and that limits their room for manoeuvre. That said, BT prices should be coming down next month, so maybe IDNet will be in a better situation to restructure their tariffs after that.

Let us hope so, especially if Newnet follow BTW pricing down. On the other hand maybe they have anticipated it to pinch a few customers ahead of time.

[Rik]

Time will tell, Dave.

[davej99]

Time will tell, Dave.

Meantime, and reading back over this thread, it seems to me some of the problems arise because of the large gaps in download allowance between packages and where the breakpoints are compared with other providers. It might be worth considering infill packages and it would certainly be worth looking at some carry forward.

[Tacitus]

On my ADSL line Newnet seem to offer 12GB for £17.56 compared with IDNET's 5GB for £17.61 at present, with I presume similar BTW ADSL.

NewNet are offering 12GB in total (ie up and download).  iDNet charge for downloads only, so the products are not strictly comparable.  I did suggest on another thread that iDNet might be wise to consider selling total bandwidth on the NewNet model, since few people upload a great deal. 

What operating efficiencies would you suggest?  How exactly could they cut costs in order to offer significantly cheaper prices?  Given they shared the reduction in costs with their customers, when they moved to WBC, I can't really see how they could do much else.  The only alternative would be to spread those costs across to Max and subsidise Max customers at the expense of those on WBC.  Or they could do like everyone else and cut support costs....

[davej99]

NewNet are offering 12GB in total (ie up and download).  iDNet charge for downloads only, so the products are not strictly comparable.  I did suggest on another thread that iDNet might be wise to consider selling total bandwidth on the NewNet model, since few people upload a great deal.  

What operating efficiencies would you suggest?  How exactly could they cut costs in order to offer significantly cheaper prices?  Given they shared the reduction in costs with their customers, when they moved to WBC, I can't really see how they could do much else.  The only alternative would be to spread those costs across to Max and subsidise Max customers at the expense of those on WBC.  Or they could do like everyone else and cut support costs....

It is of course correct to say IDNET have a large number of advantages over similar competitors, including free upload, superb tech support, low cost extra useage, flexible contracts, many extras and so on. However, for ADSL lines, Newnet are offerring 12GB for £17.56 compared with IDNET's 5GB for £17.61. That equates to £1.46 versus £3.52 per GB. You would have to do a lot of uploading to close the gap and I suspect that few non-biz users would come close.

I do not intend to advise IDNET on operating efficiencies or suggest that they do not pursue them. In a well run business this is not a matter of sacrificing quality or service to reduce costs, but of being very smart. It is a business given and customers expect to see the benefit. Nor do I intend to advise or speculate on pricing policy, except to agree that price is not the only factor in this premium segment of the broadband market, where a price differential versus the rest is largely tolerated. However, between competitors in the premium segment, it is harder to accept.

My point is very simple; there is a significant price differential between competitors for some customers in the premium segment and I would be grateful if this could be addressed.

[Rik]

I do know that IDNet are aware of this, Dave, and are thinking hard about how best to implement the forthcoming BT price cuts.

[Tacitus]

........Newnet are offerring 12GB for £17.56 compared with IDNET's 5GB for £17.61. That equates to £1.46 versus £3.52 per GB. You would have to do a lot of uploading to close the gap and I suspect that few non-biz users would come close.

Which is pretty much the point I made above and have also made elsewhere, that iDNet should consider moving to a total bandwidth model...     I imagine it would depend on how BT are structuring their prices.  I'm sure iDNet are well aware of what the competition is doing.

In a well run business this is not a matter of sacrificing quality or service to reduce costs, but of being very smart....

Would that many more of the UKs  bigger businesses took your advice..  With most of them, slashing costs, and using cheap labour (aka outsourcing) is the name of the game.  Quality and service are well down the line for many of them - the customer is simply someone to be milked for profit.

[quandam]

It is of course correct to say IDNET have a large number of advantages over similar competitors, including free upload, superb tech support, low cost extra useage, flexible contracts, many extras and so on. However, for ADSL lines, Newnet are offerring 12GB for £17.56 compared with IDNET's 5GB for £17.61. That equates to £1.46 versus £3.52 per GB. You would have to do a lot of uploading to close the gap and I suspect that few non-biz users would come close.

I do not intend to advise IDNET on operating efficiencies or suggest that they do not pursue them. In a well run business this is not a matter of sacrificing quality or service to reduce costs, but of being very smart. It is a business given and customers expect to see the benefit. Nor do I intend to advise or speculate on pricing policy, except to agree that price is not the only factor in this premium segment of the broadband market, where a price differential versus the rest is largely tolerated. However, between competitors in the premium segment, it is harder to accept.

My point is very simple; there is a significant price differential between competitors for some customers in the premium segment and I would be grateful if this could be addressed.

Overall a very well thought out , fair and common sense post that should be taken on board for the benefit of all, including IDNet themselves.

[davej99]

Thank you for your kind words, Q. Having thrown in my two pence on pricing I am content to wait and see what IDNET come up with. I have always thought IDNET very responsive and customer oriented and I would be surprised if we do not see an appropriate response.