Graphics card scene

[Supanova]

Its been a while since I built my last gaming rig, and while I have kept more than in touch with processors through my degree I have completely lost touch with the graphics card scene.

I'm looking for the best card for my money. I have £100-£160 to spend on my graphics card and I would like it to be ATI because I have an affiliation with AMD and would like to support the company in my small way.

Does anyone have any personnal advice for the graphics card or, even better, some websites that do up to date bench tests from this half of 09? TomsHardware is failing me and I have never trusted it.

For those interested I'm building an AMD phenomIIx4 based gaming rig buying everything but the case, for £700 or under. I'll be buying after Christmas to see if I can snag a bargain or two but want to set my build in stone so I can keep an eye on the market.

Many thanks to any posters,
Nick

[Colin Burns]

can't help much on the ATI range of cards as ive always been a fan of Nvidia especially since i switched to Linux..

have you chosen a specific processor yet as ive just got my self a x4 955 black edition


sure someone will be around soon with good bench mark sites.

[Rik]

I'll be buying after Christmas to see if I can snag a bargain or two but want to set my build in stone so I can keep an eye on the market.

Can't help with the question, Nick, but do remember that VAT goes up on January 1.

[Glenn]

How about a ATI 5770 http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5770-review-test/ £100 from Amazon?

[Supanova]

Can't help with the question, Nick, but do remember that VAT goes up on January 1.

Well reminded thanks Rik.

Colin I have chosen an x4 965 black edition. It is £10 more than the 955 at the moment and it is only 200MHz faster than the 955 on the face of it but it actually uses slightly less power which means I can overclock it with more stability. Other than the 15W power difference, it is the same CPU with a slightly higher manufacture base clock speed.

Glenn thanks for the site link! I'v been reading through it for too much of my morning already. Looks to me like the radeon 4890 performs a bit better than the 5770 for about £7 so at the moment that's my number one for 'bang for buck'. Thanks again for the link it has got me started.

[Glenn]

There is always this one  http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/12/09/review_graphics_amd_ati_radeon_hd_5970/

[Supanova]

Thanks for that Glenn but unfortunately I'm not a stark raving loony 

Lovely card though I'm looking forward to a few years in the future when cards that powerful are obsolete. 

[Fox]

Slightly above your budget (about £200) is the 5850, which is basically a cut down and underclocked 5870. If you clock it to 5870 speeds (which according to the reviews almost all seem to be able to manage) you get 95% of the 5870 performance for 60% of the price.

[vitriol]

I always like the reviews at driverheaven.net

[Ann]

I always check out Tom's Hardware for comparisons http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/

[D-Dan]

can't help much on the ATI range of cards as ive always been a fan of Nvidia especially since i switched to Linux..

ATI Linux drivers since 9.11 are spot on. NVidia no longer hold that particular crown

Steve

[RA-1972]

I have always liked ATi cards i have a 4850 hd all games can play on high good card , i payed 130 for it about 6 months ago .

Primary Adapter      
Graphics Card Manufacturer   Powered by ATI   
Graphics Chipset   ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series    
Device ID   9442   
Vendor   1002   
   
Subsystem ID   E810   
Subsystem Vendor ID   174B   
   
Graphics Bus Capability   PCI Express 2.0   
Maximum Bus Setting   PCI Express 2.0 x16   
   
BIOS Version   011.004.000.000   
BIOS Part Number   11X-2E810ESA-07A   
BIOS Date   2008/11/19   
   
Memory Size   512 MB   
Memory Type   GDDR3   
   
Core Clock in MHz   625 MHz   
Memory Clock in MHz   993 MHz   
Total Memory Bandwidth in GByte/s   63.6 GByte/s   

[D-Dan]

I have a HD4670 1 Gig - which more than suits my needs. I'm not a big gamer, but I'm an amatuer 3D artist and need the performance and memory for complex scene building.

If I'm honest, the last NVidia cards I had caused me some problems, and I've been an ATI man since, though I'll assume they've gotten better the last 3 or 4 years.

Nevertheless, if you want the best bang for your buck, ATI is the way to go, esp the new 5000 series which are out pacing all but the very top end (and considerably more costly) NVidia cards.

Steve

[Niall]

Can't help with the question, Nick, but do remember that VAT goes up on January 1.

Just in time for the sales! Awesome

[Glenn]

Now days the sales normally start on 26th Dec, or so it seems, with a few stores waiting until Jan.

[Niall]

I get paid 5 days after that. I'll have to go mad on the 31st

[Glenn]

Niall, the new star of Spend, Spend, Spend 

[Technical Ben]

Good advice here. Toms Hardware is perfect for comparisons. Check the EXACT model and speeds. And check them on Toms hardware to see which is fastest etc. Then decide on your budget. An Ati 4870/4890 is great for a lower priced card. Good speed, but only has DX10. If you want fancy graphics, the ATI 5770 is out, and that costs the same price. It is slightly slower, but has DX11 (so a little fancier effects). Unfortunately, there are no other DX11 cards for under £160. But the 5770 is the newer card so I'm all   about it all. I'd reccomend the 5850 but it's not out yet, and a little more expensive. I could not wait, so I just got a cheap as chips 4870 for my pc. Does me fine.

So you have to choose a entry level 5 series or a top end 4 series. It's like trying to decide if you should get ASDL or ASDL2+! You might get a slower line, you might use the bandwidth, you might not.

Oh, and one more thing... I agree with Glenn. The 5970 is a beautiful piece of engineering. It's the fastest card to date. It's not even being pushed to the limit, it comes "restricted" when bought, a bit like car speed is.  

[Niall]

I gave up on Toms hardware years ago when he sold out and started posting biased reviews due to who was paying him. All I do is look at the cards that fit my budget then google lots and lots of reviews, then check what people that have bought them say on various graphics card related forums. http://www.rage3d.com is a good place for that.

[Gary]

Now days the sales normally start on 26th Dec, or so it seems, with a few stores waiting until Jan.

Lots of sales before xmas this year I have noticed Glenn, but I think they slowly hype the prices before xmas then reduce them back to the norm for January, tbh online shopping is cheaper. I grabbed a Lumix FS-15 from Amazon, same as the FS-25 in all ways but slightly smaller body and a 2.7 inch viewer rather than 3inch, idea for pockets with a wide angle 29mm wide angle lens, £127 and with a 8GB memory card all in £136, Currys in the shop £209 without memory card! How on earth do these stores survive  I also purchased a Sony memory stick, a 4GB for my BDP-S760, that was £19 online, Sony shop £49. I can high street electrical retailers which sell the ususal selection of gadgets fading fast in the next few years.

[Niall]

I can high street electrical retailers which sell the ususal selection of gadgets fading fast in the next few years.

A lot are and have. In photography areas, I read (probably over a year ago now) that by the middle of the year 36 shops had gone under. There were a lot of well known shops too. The same can be said for most areas. The trouble is, with places like Jessops they used to price match and basically rely on customers not knowing what they were doing so they could over charge them. When people get wind of this they just stop going there, after all why would you want to go to a store that practices this when you can use another store that doesn't? While I appreciate there are running costs of physical stores on the high street, there is absolutely no justification for the mark up they add on products. A small profit over the running costs yes, but when people add £200 on the price of a lens, or a computer for no reason at all it makes me seriously consider using other companies instead of them. Jessops never learned this lesson and kept over charging, while every other supplier was charging less, even on the high street. They brought about their own downfall.

Then you've got your small business man that simply cannot afford to buy stock in big enough quantities to bring the prices down to compete and as such, go under Oh, and there are also the companies that compete with the prices, but have shady business practices like charging restock fees if you return something. You know, because it obviously costs them £15 to put your unopened product back in the warehouse after you've paid to have it shipped back.

[Gary]

A lot are and have. In photography areas, I read (probably over a year ago now) that by the middle of the year 36 shops had gone under. There were a lot of well known shops too. The same can be said for most areas. The trouble is, with places like Jessops they used to price match and basically rely on customers not knowing what they were doing so they could over charge them. When people get wind of this they just stop going there, after all why would you want to go to a store that practices this when you can use another store that doesn't? While I appreciate there are running costs of physical stores on the high street, there is absolutely no justification for the mark up they add on products. A small profit over the running costs yes, but when people add £200 on the price of a lens, or a computer for no reason at all it makes me seriously consider using other companies instead of them. Jessops never learned this lesson and kept over charging, while every other supplier was charging less, even on the high street. They brought about their own downfall.

Then you've got your small business man that simply cannot afford to buy stock in big enough quantities to bring the prices down to compete and as such, go under Oh, and there are also the companies that compete with the prices, but have shady business practices like charging restock fees if you return something. You know, because it obviously costs them £15 to put your unopened product back in the warehouse after you've paid to have it shipped back.

Restocking fees really wind me up Niall, its a total rip off. I have been stunned by how shops try to milk customers, the prestent one is Sony shops doing the "now you will need a HDMI cable" they ask it at every shop I called, and were most unhappy when I pointed out digital is digital, gold plating, Oxygen free high conductivity copper etc wont make a damn of difference, useing a more robust cable may be good so it does not break, so £5-10 not the £50-80 they want people to pay, they basically give unsound advice, and if you know no better you fall for it. 

[Niall]

Yeah I remember Currys doing that with Scart leads. They tried to sell you a cable for £40 when you could buy one for £10. They also try to sell you Norton security suite, as do PC World (same group - coincidence?) and they did with my aunt when she went to buy a laptop she'd done some research on (via me!). They were insistent that she buy Norton, so she shouted at them in the store and left (as did a couple of other people on seeing it happen apparently)

[Gary]

Yeah I remember Currys doing that with Scart leads. They tried to sell you a cable for £40 when you could buy one for £10. They also try to sell you Norton security suite, as do PC World (same group - coincidence?) and they did with my aunt when she went to buy a laptop she'd done some research on (via me!). They were insistent that she buy Norton, so she shouted at them in the store and left (as did a couple of other people on seeing it happen apparently)

I told an old man in one of there stores that he could renew online with his internet security rather than pay the £54 PC World Wanted, his PC had told him it had run out (still a month to go symantec scare tactics) and he could just do it through the interface, he was not keen to change suite, which is fair enough he understood what he had, but PC world were going to happily fleece him for the new version which was not much different, in fact I think it was slower 

[Fox]

Don't get me started on PC World, probably the most expensive shop for components out there, with most prices 50% above most retailers (eg Overclockers or CCL). I have only bought something from them once and vowed never to return. I bought a Canon printer from them, it was on special offer. I bought it online and collected it from the shop. I spent 15 minutes with an "assistant" who tried to sell me an extended warranty that cost about half the price of the printer and then tried to sell me Norton because "the printer is wireless and you will need security on it". I explained that WPA2 with AES encription should be plenty secure and Norton would not add anything to that. While I was in there I could not believe how much bad, misleading or just plain wrong information people were being told by the so called experts in there.

[Rik]

That about sums the company up.

[dujas]

The 1GB HD 4890/4870 would probably be the best ATI choice currently for your budget, it's faster than the 5770 (although noisier) for around the same price (£130), but it does depend upon how important DirectX 11 support is to you. The 58xx series carry a price premium due to an ongoing supply problem, the 5850 will hopefully be under £200 by late Jan/Feb.

Anandtech 5770 review and comparison.

[Supanova]

An update -

I have decided to go for the Radeon 4890 by Sapphire (their cooler is much better and quieter). After reading many different benchtests it seems to be the best bang-for-buck card out there right now.

I have bought everything from overclockers because they had everything I wanted, their prices are reasonable and it means I can save a fortune on shipping costs (overclockers only charge £10 to deliver the whole lot next day).

Thanks to everyone that posted in this thread. Some great advice and knowledge as well as some splendid links.

[D-Dan]

You could always splash out for the fastest:

http://www.amd.com/uk/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5970/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5970-overview.aspx

[Gary]

Don't get me started on PC World, probably the most expensive shop for components out there, with most prices 50% above most retailers (eg Overclockers or CCL). I have only bought something from them once and vowed never to return. I bought a Canon printer from them, it was on special offer. I bought it online and collected it from the shop. I spent 15 minutes with an "assistant" who tried to sell me an extended warranty that cost about half the price of the printer and then tried to sell me Norton because "the printer is wireless and you will need security on it". I explained that WPA2 with AES encription should be plenty secure and Norton would not add anything to that. While I was in there I could not believe how much bad, misleading or just plain wrong information people were being told by the so called experts in there.

I was told Vista Ultimate had its own AV!!! They are really foxed now I have a mac  but seriously they wanted £40 ish for a belking patch lead, same lead, same make, broadbanduyer, £5 of there about  I cannot see how they are in business.

[Glenn]

People don't know better, sadly.

[Rik]

Perhaps they meant audio visual?

[Gary]

Perhaps they meant audio visual?

, This guy got flumixed when I said, 64 bit or 32? AV would have flawed him if it could mean more than Norton 

[Rik]