Outrageous! (Nothing to do with IDNet though)

Inkblot · Dec 11, 2009, 19:48:32

Ok, long story and nothing to do with IDNet but just wanted to share this...

Back in 2006 we took a mobile phone contract with Orange for our daughters 16th birthday. At the time, Orange were offering a free broadband service to anybody on a £35/month contract (Which we were) so we took the free offer and put broadband onto our main phone line. We have a 2nd phone line which has broadband wth IDNet so end result 2 broadbands, 1 free and 1 being paid for.

In 2008 when she turned 18 the mobile phone contract was moved over into her name, same price, same contract just a change of name.

Since 2006 she has changed her mobile a couple of times, the last time being October. Over all of this period she has remained with Orange. When she changed it recently the guy in the shop offered to upgrade the free broadband to what sounds like a max service - I wasn't there, she can't remember the details but he said something along the lines of "Your service is really slow, we have much faster available now and it's still a free service, just faster". Naturally, she agreed to this.

Enough of the background, this is where it starts to get interesting...

Bear in mind here that at the time of this next bit we knew nothing of the broadband upgrade conversation...at the end of October we receive a letter from BT saying that they are sorry to hear that we are moving our calls to another company and that the calls will be with the new company from 10th November. We were a little perplexed by this as the phone is in my name and at no time had I agreed to move to another company so we called BT to ask what was happening, they wouldn't tell us who the calls were moving to (Data protection) but agreed to block the move as we wanted to stay with them and not go off to anybody else.

Last week, Orange rang my daghter on her mobile and asked to speak to my wife. They took no notice of the fact that the contract is in our daughters name now and that my wife has nothing to do with it and they refused to elaborate beyond the fact it was to do with broadband and that they could only speak to my wife. When she told us about it we realised that it must have been to do with the calls moving over and that it must have been Orange who had contacted BT. No problem though, we cancelled that move at the end of October. Today, I got a call from Orange on the landline, again asking to speak to my wife and refusing to speak to me as the contract was apparently in my wife's name. This evening, my wife has called Orange and had a most interesting conversation with several departments which reveals that:

The 'Free upgrade' on the Broadband is only if you agree to have your landline calls through Orange. My (Now 19 years old) daughter apparently has enough authority to cancel my contract with BT and sign us up with Orange - despite the fact she is not the bill payer on the landline. Funny how they can do that without speaking to me (The contract with BT is in my name) but can't talk to me as the Orange contract is apparently in my wife's name despite the fact it was my daughter who signed it

Despite our cancelling the move to Orange they just resubmitted the move request and as BT didn't send a further letter and Orange didn't send us a welcome the phone was moved to Orange on the strength of our daughter accepting the offer of a free upgrade to the broadband! Orange have never sent us a 'Welcome' letter and we have no idea of what the tariffs are, is that legal? (Lack of information on the tariffs, not lack of a letter!)

Asking Orange to move the line back to BT as we had never asked for it in the 1st place will result in a cancellation fee of approx £71 - to cancel something we never asked for and in fact cancelled at the earliest opportunity as we had no idea what it was about!

Orange customer services are not the most helpful in the world in many ways, for example any request for escalation means we have to phone an 0844 number at our expense as they cannot transfer calls to/from other departments although we can send a fax if we prefer. Eventually the helpdesk person went and spoke to a manager and suddenly they could miraculously transfer us after all!

Speaking to enough people at Orange will eventually lead to a person who can waive the £71 cancellation fee. However, all other charges still stand and to move back will take approx. 10 days during which time we are advised not to use the phone as this will incur charges.

Somebody (In fact the guy who agreed to waive the £71 charge) will attempt to sell you an Orange package despite the fact you have spent the best part of an hour on the phone asking them what the heck they think they are playing at!

As the 'Free' 2m broadband contract was cancelled by the faster one we no longer have a 2nd broadband line for backup - they did offer us broadband at £9/month with 6 months free because of the problems outlined above....we said no though!

No suggestions about moving the phone line(s) to IDNet please - we like BT for phones, old fashioned in that (And many other) respect

Edit: Changed the title in case people thought I had a problem with IDNet!

Simon · Dec 11, 2009, 22:07:44

You couldn't make it up!

Supanova · Dec 11, 2009, 23:13:36

Great story thanks for sharing

I used to be with orange and I am fully aware of how abysmal their (Indian) customer service is. Waiting on hold for 20 minutes only to get through to an Indian guy drove me nuts. This and their uncompetitive pay-as-you-go deals made me move to O2, one of the best things I have ever done.

Tacitus · Dec 12, 2009, 08:02:22

Quote from: Inkblot on Dec 11, 2009, 19:48:32
No suggestions about moving the phone line(s) to IDNet please - we like BT for phones, old fashioned in that (And many other) respect

Agree with Simon you really couldn't make this stuff up. The amazing thing is that all of these companies loudly trumpet their commitment to customer service. Even more amazing is that many people believe it.

Not trying to convert you

as I too am inclined to be old fashioned in a lot of things, but I recently moved my phone to iDNet with no problem whatever. Now if I have a problem I get to talk to someone who is competent, comprehensible and really does want to help.

Whether you are with BT or anyone else, problems are referred back to Openreach, so why make life difficult by going through an offshore call centre. Customer satisfaction is now the province of the SMEs, in our case the likes of iDNet, Zen etc. The big outfits regard the customer as simply a cash cow to be milked for 'shareholder value'.

Inkblot · Dec 12, 2009, 09:14:42

Got a letter from Orange in the post today, 1st paragraph reads:

We've been trying to take the monthly payment for your home account, using the details you gave us (What details? We've never agreed to this, never signed anything and certainly have never given them any details!). We've not been able to and now your account is overdue, it's probably something simple like your credit card has expired or bank account details aren't quite right (Bloomin' right there - you don't HAVE any details), but unfortunately we've had to add a £5 late payment charge to your account to cover our admin costs (What about MY admin costs trying to sort out the mess you have created?).

It then goes on to say that we can easily pay online (How? We don't have an account with Orange!) or if we are on a starter package (We have no idea what package we are supposed to be on, after all we have never agreed to switch!) we can telephone them on an 0844 (As usual, at our expense). The last paragraph then says that if we don't do this quickly they will suspend the package and we won't be able to use the service.

I am seriously considering if this should go to the regulatory body - Ofcom? Oftel? - or if I should just let it ride and hope they get it sorted out quickly.

Glenn · Dec 12, 2009, 09:24:45

It will be Ofcom. I did it disgusting that companies can take over your utilities, without the bill payers permission.

Rik · Dec 12, 2009, 09:51:38

Go to Ofcom, Inky, they don't like telcos playing this game. I'd echo Tac's recommendation, btw, take a look at IDNet's phone tariffs and see if they are right for you. If they are, the move is simply who bills you for the calls, the underlying provider, BT Openreach, remains the same throughout. When I had a fault on the line recently, one free call to IDNet had an engineer here in two hours, all sorted 15 minutes later.

quandam · Dec 12, 2009, 12:37:11

Afraid it is happening everywhere, so, so frustrating,

costly and time consuming. I find that when dealing with these companies you have to lead them by the hand over the phone rather than as it should be, the other way round.

Against my nature, I now adopt a 'shrug your shoulders' attitude which is a shame as you feel that in the end there is very little you can do without getting the old blood pressure going through the roof (not a good thing!)

Inkblot · Dec 12, 2009, 17:37:53

Quote from: quandam on Dec 12, 2009, 12:37:11
Against my nature, I now adopt a 'shrug your shoulders' attitude which is a shame as you feel that in the end there is very little you can do without getting the old blood pressure going through the roof (not a good thing!)

Pretty much the same here, at the moment we are thinking along the lines of if we get switched back to BT and are not out of pocket (Other than time/calls) then we'll do the shoulder shrug, if on the other hand Orange cut our phoneline or insist we pay to cancel then we will go to Ofcom. Likewise, if BT try and charge a reconnection after we had explicity told them not to transfer us in the 1st place we will ask for Ofcom's involvement.

With regard to switching to IDNet for phones, I am sure that the service is very good but in 25 years of being with BT we have been fortunate enough to have had just one problem which was probably 20 years ago when we had no service for an hour or so (Might have been longer/shorter - it was a long time ago!) so our experience is good and we have had no need to call them, that's good enough for me to want to stay!

quandam · Dec 12, 2009, 21:14:35

The 'shrug your shoulders' solution is becoming more attractive the older I get. Years ago I would have taken the problem to the end but now keeping the old blood pressure down seems more attractive and certainly more beneficial to a hopefully

longer life

It is still damned annoying though!

4Way · Dec 12, 2009, 23:42:05

If it was me I'd write to Ofcom. The more people shrug there shoulders the more companies try it on. Besides you've got most of the letter in your post here.

David · Dec 17, 2009, 21:02:10

Sounds almost like they have slammed you in some way !!

D-Dan · Dec 17, 2009, 21:38:59

As soon as I saw "Orange" in the original post - I knew where this was going - it took me 6 months and two Ofcom complaints to get out of their grips.

Steve

chrisga · Dec 20, 2009, 19:15:49

Quote from: Inkblot on Dec 12, 2009, 09:14:42

I am seriously considering if this should go to the regulatory body - Ofcom? Oftel? - or if I should just let it ride and hope they get it sorted out quickly.

Problem is it won't get sorted out, quickly or otherwise. These companies are driven by procedures and automated responses -Fall out side of the "norm" and you have had it. Configuring things this way means they don't have to employ expensive people with brains ! Leave it and the "penalty" payments will probably just rack up - I guess you could wait until they take you to court, but who needs that hassle - Set the regulators on them supplied with a full case history complete with documentary evidence IMHO !