Still getting the odd re-sync

PuncH · Jan 15, 2010, 14:47:35

Hi

Things seem to be settling down now in PuncH towers, however I'm still getting the occassional re-sync and my line is sync'd at around 3000kbps less than it used to be.

Had a re-sync this morning after the connection had been up for over 36 hours, and then line came back up at the same speed and margin.

Is this something I should keep an eye on bearing in mind my connection used to stay up for months at a time without any problems, up until about 3 weeks ago (start of the P'boro BRAS debacle).

I have a new filter and twisted pair phone cable from ADSLNation so pretty sure I can rule that out. Also, there are no extensions hard wired off my master socket so only other culprit indoors would be my router.

Rik · Jan 15, 2010, 14:48:39

Could you try a different router, Jonathan?

PuncH · Jan 15, 2010, 14:55:41

Hi Rik,

Sadly I can't. Don't have a spare and I'm not really in a position to buy a new one at the moment. Especially when there may be nothing wrong with my current one.

Rik · Jan 15, 2010, 14:56:52

In that case, talk to support and they can test your line for you.

PuncH · Jan 15, 2010, 14:57:42

They did run a test yesterday and found no faults

Rik · Jan 15, 2010, 15:05:01

The line may have degraded then, it happens all the time, especially when there's been cold or wet weather about. You may have to wait for spring to see an upturn, or it could be permanent. Unfortunately, BT will do nothing about such degradation.

Have you tried a quiet line test, 17070 option 2?

My 'loaner' router is out at present, but I can let you know when it's back if you want to try it.

PuncH · Jan 15, 2010, 18:45:55

Thanks Rik, will bear that in mind.

The fact that some damp may have got in somewhere along the line had crossed my mind, so I'll see how it goes as things (hopefully) dry out.

I've also exchanged a couple of emails with support and they are happy my connection is behaving normally. In fact they said that ADSL2+ lines rarely go all that long without a re-sync as the DLM gets info about the connection every day and even the smallest adjustment will prompt a re-sync.

I did find this a little odd bearing in mind up until 3 weeks ago my connection would stay up for several weeks at a time.

Anyway, support reckon it's fine so I'll go with it and see how it goes.

Rik · Jan 15, 2010, 18:48:32

Your experience and mine are the same, Jonathan. I went six weeks without a re-sync, then over a couple of days DLM raised my NM by 6db and triggered 5 resyncs.

PuncH · Jan 16, 2010, 11:36:35

Had another re-sync this morning

Margin up by 6db and sync speed down by 4000kbps in one go!

I wonder if BT's green box has got a bit damp inside? Or even where my line enters my house? There doesn't appear to be a protective box over the point it enters the house.

adamr8965 · Jan 16, 2010, 11:47:42

punch i got a netgear router from idnet that i didnt need as i have a range max router u could borrow or purchase if u like? Might help your problem

Rik · Jan 16, 2010, 11:50:15

Talk to support on Monday, Jonathan, ideally email them a photo of that box.

PuncH · Jan 17, 2010, 09:22:18

Hi guys,

Adam...thanks for the offer, will bear that in mind.

Rik...I popped an email off to support yesterday so will see what they say. With all the snow and rain we've had lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the damp is affecting my connection either at the point of entry to my house (although I've checked the neighbours and theirs are the same) or the street box across the road.

Do you think it's worth me raising a voice fault with BT and get them to swap me onto another pair to the exchange?

Rik · Jan 17, 2010, 09:42:17

Only if you can demonstrate a voice fault, Jonathan.

PuncH · Jan 17, 2010, 09:50:12

Hmmm...short of rustling a crisp packet while I'm on the phone to BT I can't really

Rik · Jan 17, 2010, 09:52:04

You could try suggesting that you can hear other people's conversations faintly. That's reputed to work.

PuncH · Jan 17, 2010, 09:54:36

What are the errors that DLM would look out for? Is it sever errored seconds or similar?

My line just dropped again but I've only seen a slight decrease in speed this time. These are the stats from Routerstats:-

Noise Margin: 26.3 dB
Connection Rate: 9727 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 15.0 dB
Power: 0.0 dBm
Max Rate: 24348 Kbps

SF: 104776
SF Errors: 0
Reed Solomon: 13411360
RS Corrected: 131
RS Un-Corrected: 0
HEC: 0
Errored Seconds: 45
Severe ES: 3

Interleave Depth: 96
Bitswaps: 0

Total Uptimes (From SF counts):
WAN: 0 days, 00:28:40
LAN: 3 days, 14:14:30

CRC: 1425
LOS: 3
LOF: 27
ES : 45

Bytes Transferred (ppp0):
Tx: 274952 (268.5 KiB)
Rx: 566972 (553.6 KiB)

Rik · Jan 17, 2010, 10:00:56

Afaik, it looks at errored seconds and CRCs, Jonathan. You have quite a few for 30 minutes of uptime.

PuncH · Jan 17, 2010, 10:08:55

Bum

Cheers Rik. I wonder if a high error count could be caused by damp? Might just have to ride it out and see if things improve as things dry out!

I just find the whole episode incredibly frustrating as my line was so stable only 3 weeks ago.

Rik · Jan 17, 2010, 10:09:39

You should have seen my line last summer - 1.5M more than now.

PuncH · Jan 18, 2010, 21:49:03

Spoke to support today.

Need to do a speed test from the test socket and send them result. They also suggested moving all electrical equipment away from the router. The only thing nearby is the base unit for my DEC phone which I'll move tomorrow once I have a long enough telephone cable!

Sync did drop this morning, but downstream wasn't affected. It was the upstream that decreased (seen this once before).

PuncH · Jan 19, 2010, 12:46:28

Spoke to Brian at length this morning.

Looks like I've got a long drawn out period of testing in front of me.

I plugged into the test socket last night and will leave the router plugged in there for a few days and see if things stabalise. I also removed my Sky+ box from the phone line. If things settle down then it's either the Sky+ box or I have a faulty faceplate on the mastersocket. If they don't settle down then it could be my Dec phone which is using the electrical socket next to my routers, or I have a duff router.

If it's none of them then I'm stuffed and stuck with a line that can't seem to make it's mind up about what speed to sync at!

My line re-sync'd again this morning, but of course I doubt the fact that I'm on the test socket will be seen by the DLM will be seen until tomorrow morning. So fingers crossed it won't drop tomorrow.

One thing I did see this morning after being on the test socket for approx 9 hours, was a very very low error count. There was just 1 CRC and 1 errored second which is much much better than the stats posted earlier in this thread!

Keeping my fingers crossed!

Simon · Jan 19, 2010, 13:18:35

As are we.

Steve · Jan 19, 2010, 14:05:13

Sounds encouraging if you've managed to reduce the error count

Glenn · Jan 19, 2010, 14:17:33

If the error count has reduced when fitted to the test socket, is the problem in the house?

PuncH · Jan 19, 2010, 14:33:52

I think it could be in the house. I have no extensions hardwired off the master socket so that's out of the equation.

At the moment it's either the Sky+ box I unplugged from the phoneline last night, or the faceplate itself. If it's neither of those I will then look at my nearby DEC basestation or the router itself!

Steve · Jan 19, 2010, 14:47:19

I've heard of people double filtering the sky box

PuncH · Jan 19, 2010, 14:56:14

Yeah I have too, but if it's causing the problem I'll just leave it unplugged. I'm getting rid of Sky soon anyway!

Rik · Jan 19, 2010, 15:51:11

The Sky box would feature high up on my list of suspects, Jonathan.

PuncH · Jan 19, 2010, 18:06:21

444 CRC's in 10 hours and 2 errored seconds.

Does that sound better??

Steve · Jan 19, 2010, 18:08:05

Its a lot better than you the ones you posted earlier.

PuncH · Jan 19, 2010, 18:44:18

Aye...hopefully it's not enough to trigger a re-sync tomorrow morning.

PuncH · Jan 20, 2010, 15:33:27

Well...no re-sync today. The connection has been up for well over 24 hours, so moving to the test socket and removing the sky+ box has worked, or...my line is now at a speed it can handle assuming it may have degraded rather rapidly.

Anyway, after a few days of stabilty I'm hoping the DLM will up the speed again and then we'll see what happens. If it stays stable then it'll be the sky+ box or the faceplate. If it doesn't I'll have to look at the router, or my line has now gone to poop.

Rik · Jan 20, 2010, 15:36:54

My line has, Jonathan.

PuncH · Jan 20, 2010, 15:38:55

You don't think there are some wrong doings by BT do you Rik? I've read about them deliberately throttling peoples connections. Mind you, with yours there wasn't a lot to throttle was there!?

Rik · Jan 20, 2010, 15:40:37

No, there wasn't. I had a line card fault over the Xmas period, since the repair I've lost just under 1M in speed. I've tried a different router and it's in the master socket, no extensions attached.

Steve · Jan 20, 2010, 17:27:25

With regard to BT throttles I think I've posted these before
WBC banded line profile (rate kbps)
7168 - 14336
4864 - 9728
3328 - 6656
2272 - 4544
1472 - 3072
1152 - 2272
576 - 1152
288 - 576
160 - 288

So the DLM specifies a minimum and maximum sync rate for your line. BT's excuse is to give you a stable connection with minimum resyncs. I assume you know you've been banded if your downstream noise margin is excessively high.

Rik · Jan 20, 2010, 17:33:18

Mine has gone from 6-12db since BT changed the line card, Steve, but I'm assured I have a target of 6db and I'm not banded.

Steve · Jan 20, 2010, 17:39:29

Would banding perhaps be used on lines with lower downstream attenuation than yours but performing poorly on ADSL2+. What I don't understand is downstream margins in excess of say 20 and a lot lower sync than I would expect.

Rik · Jan 20, 2010, 17:40:47

Quite possibly. ADSL2+ seems much more error concious than ADSL1.

Steve · Jan 20, 2010, 17:43:28

I looked at my modem stats last night ok its only 60 hours at present but not a single CRC , you won't get that with ADSL2+.

Rik · Jan 20, 2010, 17:52:59

I don't.

PuncH · Jan 20, 2010, 22:51:20

Quote from: Steve on Jan 20, 2010, 17:27:25
With regard to BT throttles I think I've posted these before
WBC banded line profile (rate kbps)
7168 - 14336
4864 - 9728
3328 - 6656
2272 - 4544
1472 - 3072
1152 - 2272
576 - 1152
288 - 576
160 - 288

So the DLM specifies a minimum and maximum sync rate for your line. BT's excuse is to give you a stable connection with minimum resyncs. I assume you know you've been banded if your downstream noise margin is excessively high.

I'm in the 3328 - 6656 band at the moment, with a margin of 30!

Certainly room for improvement, especially as my error count is still at 444 CRC's and 2 Errored seconds!

Steve · Jan 21, 2010, 07:27:34

So the question I ask myself is what is stopping the modem syncing at a higher rate? It looks like you now have a stable connection with low error rates and you appear to have possibly found the source of some of your interference on your internal wiring.

PuncH · Jan 21, 2010, 07:34:30

Just waiting for the DLM to up my sync rate again, which it'll hopefully do in a few days. Then I've got to hope it remains stable

Steve · Jan 21, 2010, 07:48:18

But will the DLM raise your sync speed without BT/ISP intervention? If we look back at adslmax the only control of sync rate was through target SNR margin and the max was 15 with ADSL2+ something else is happening I think?

PuncH · Jan 21, 2010, 10:31:07

Yep...support say DLM will raise my sync speed automatically, but it could take up to 14 days. Then it's a case of wait and see.

PuncH · Jan 25, 2010, 10:46:02

Still waiting for DLM to do it's stuff and unband my connection. Nearly 6 days now of solid sync at 5200kbps since I moved onto the test socket.

PuncH · Jan 31, 2010, 10:54:15

Update:

DLM kicked in this morning. Sync is up to 16122kbps. Line is no longer on the test socket either, just straight into the mastersocket minus the sky+ box. There are a few errors, but nothing major at the moment.

Now the fun begins!

Steve · Jan 31, 2010, 10:57:26