Loss of sync when telephone handset picked up.

[OllB]

So after my line stabilised from the previous problem which is probably connected to this. It has all started again and gotten worse.

Little info about my setup first. Connected to test socket, various filters tried, 2 routers tested. When the line works the equipment works so i have come to the conclusion that my hardware etc. is not the problem, nothing other than router and phone connected to line. The current cycle of ip profile being lowered to 135k and waiting 3 days then the ip profile being lowered then waiting 3days is slightly annoying


Whenever i pick up the handset and receive a dial tone my connection drops. No calls need to be made it just drops at the dial tone and then lots of noise can be heard whilst the router re syncs and then then the noise continues afterwards. I have emailed support regarding the issue but was wondering if there is anything else i can do to make sure that i don't receive the bill from BT if the engineer is needed

Thanks in advance

[Glenn]

OllB, it looks very similar to Spiny's problem, http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=18592.msg449388;topicseen#msg449388 The only other thing that you could try, if you have access to one is another phone, a wired one if possible (no interference from psu's).

[PuncH]

When this happened to me it was a dodgy filter.

[OllB]

Filters is what i thought as well but i tried 2 different filters and the same thing happens with both, it cant be my stuff as it worked fine for a couple of days after the last similar problem. I'm going to buy a cheap phone tomorrow and test with that to rule out the last possible cause on my part. I think that's all i can do and am going to have to hope idnet can sort out the problems with the line as BT say its fine for voice and its down to my isp to sort out net issues.

I've had sync now for about 6hrs and have to suppress the urge to go and pick up the handset to see if it stills does it because i don't want to interrupt the exchange deciding if my line is stable and raising my profile from 135k

But no doubt someone will want to make a call at some point in the next few days and i cant really stop them from

[PuncH]

But no doubt someone will want to make a call at some point in the next few days and i cant really stop them from

Unplug your phone 

[OllB]

Everything is fine today, as far as i know nothing has changed on the line it just seems to have stabilised. I feel like I'm messing support about but the last time it became fine it started again 3 days later. I really don't know what to do from here as the line must have problems or something. Guess i just have to wait for the problems to start again and hope that if a bt engineer is needed they come out whilst the line is unstable and not working  

[sparky]

Sorry to say this, but I've suffered similar phone line problems for 6 months and still can't get BT to come out without paying them even though it's their damm line!

Good luck!

(sorry, I know this post is not helpful one bit, but I'm sick of BT and how they respond to such issues. Just venting my frustration!)

[OllB]

Sorry to say this, but I've suffered similar phone line problems for 6 months and still can't get BT to come out without paying them even though it's their damm line!

Good luck!

(sorry, I know this post is not helpful one bit, but I'm sick of BT and how they respond to such issues. Just venting my frustration!)

Once again the line has gone kaput and i had spoken to support today informing that it had become stable and the problems had stopped

I know how you feel, ever since I've lived here the line has been pretty bad and BT flat out refuse to talk about it and just tell me to talk to my isp. I just don't want the expense of having the line fixed as i am moving in about 1 month and it's not like i own it, i just rent the line. I've just decided to buy a new phone, router and microfilter (even though I'm sure all 3 that i have are fine) as i can take those with me and don't feel like it's a waste of money but fixing a line that i rent in a house that i rent and will only be using for about 4-6 weeks is like giving money away.

I hate you BT and your excuse of a service I think once i move i might try to get out of the BT contract and get the phone through IDnet at least then a portion of my money goes to a decent company. At least if my line is faulty they will tell me the truth.

One good thing has come from this, i spent a good few days now reading about ADSL etc. and have expanded my knowledge of semi usefull things to know

[Rik]

Always look on the bright side of life

[OllB]

New router arrived, fired up router stats to check out the line and I'm pretty sure the line is faulty. After sitting with router stats running i could see better just what is going on. While the phone is down and not in use the sync will go no higher than 900/732. When the phone is picked up the noise margin shoots up to 21.4db then evens out at about 10-15db and re sync occurs at around 1824/800, Put the phone down sync is lost noise comes down to around 10-15db and then sync comes back at about 900/732. The db graph in router stas looks like an earthquake has just hit

Sat doing this for awhile today to be sure i was seeing things right and then phoned support who have booked an engineer to come by tomorrow and see what is going on Hopefully he will be able to fix it then I just have to wait for a few days for my profile to recover.

[Rik]

It sounds like an HR joint, the extra current flow is whetting the joint, improving things. A decent engineer should be able to spot and sort that. 

[Lance]

Certainly good to be able to repeat it and track it on routerstats.

[OllB]

Engineer came and the line was stable today before he came Just my luck he did not come whilst the faults were showing.

He said he will check to see what is going on at the exchange and move my line, still leaves me confused as I'll never know what has been going on for the past 2 weeks and if my 2 old routers and my friends router are any good. I'm just hoping the problems don't start again tonight. They always went away for a few hours each day and started again at some point. Hopefully not anymore.

Maybe the new router i got just handles the line better than the other routers I've tested with I'm sure the other 3 routers are not faulty maybe just not as good as the new one.

[Rik]

Routers are weird beasts, they can all be working perfectly but one will work better with your line that others. We don't even have a rule of thumb to go by, except that 2-Wire 2700s generally perform well on longer lines.

[Wingnutz]

I have the same problem - and from what I can tell only since migrating to the adsl2+ service. Recieve or make a call and the modem will re-sync (a 2Wire 2700 by the way).

I have tried 3 different filters - all Excelsus z-420uk-a models - plugged into the main bt socket with nothing else connected - no Sky, fax etc...

Is there such a thing a an ADSL2 or ADSL2+ filter ? Do the old Excelsus ones do enough 'filtering' ?? I see they have a newer model out the Excelsus Z-420UK-P2J.

Cheers

[Steve]

There is an old Aussie post here which may be of interest

[Glenn]

Wingnutz, ADSL Nation filters have a very good reputation for quality. Do you have a removable plate on your master socket, with a test socket, behind it as in this Kitz guide?

If you are connected to the test socket, and the problem is still happening, then there are only three things left;

1. A problem with the modem cable
2. A problem with the router
3  A problem on BT's side of the socket.

Can you borrow a router & cable from a friend, and try that?

[Wingnutz]

Sorted - I hope....

Picked up a Commtel (?) plug in splitter / filter from Focus - I know but it was the only place open ...... - no disconnects now when making or recieving calls.

Looks like the old Exelsus z-420uk-a's may not be doing what they should have been.

Anyway fingers crossed.

[Glenn]

 

[Wingnutz]

Cheers Glen. 

Sync has dropped from 6500 to 4900 though. Guess thats due to the time of day. Will re-boot early in morning to see if it improves.

May take look at one of the ADSL nation ones you recommend if speeds remain low. At least I can talk on the phone and surf the net at the same time now.

[OllB]

My problem has returned once again, i can hear a huge amount of noise on the line today and the router is still loosing the connection when the handset is used. What's worse as the fault was not showing yesterday, Bt have decided that a faulty filter was causing the problems that i had installed on Monday even though the problems have been occurring for 2 weeks prior to the new filter. So today i a have a working router, working filter and working phone that the bt engineer agreed are all working fine.

Still have problems with the line. The engineer seems to have disregarded the previous 2 weeks of problems and only looked at the problem from the new filter on Monday. Done nothing to fix line the as he said he would. I don't think he moved the line or checked anything at the exchange as he had told me that i would not be able to use the phone for about 1 hour and sync would be gone till he fixed. The router shows that it was active from yesterday and did not loose sync till this morning so i figured he lied to me about that and just decided the filter installed on Monday was causing the problems for 2 weeks before it's existence.

Now the problems are back and i know for a fact that all my equipment is working as the BT engineer said that the filters and stuff are fine but want to charge for the call out and now after talking to support over email i must decide if i want another engineer out to look at the problems that are still showing.

Help please,

This is my reply from support this morning

The fault was raised with BT on the basis that the connection dropped
out whenever the phone was in use and this fault could be recreated by
using the phone every time, this was prior to replacing the filter over
the course of when the fault was first sent to BT. At the moment the
line is showing upstream errors on the circuit so it is likely the
errors on the circuit are causing the connection to drop out however
this would indicate faulty equipment still connected to the line causing
interference or some other device that is causing the connection to drop
out.

We can continue to get BT to investigate the fault however it is likely
this would result in another engineer visit to premises to investigate
further. Please advise if you would like the case passed back to BT for
further investigation?

I really don't know what to do because if the problem goes away again and an engineer returns then i will have a massive bill. Who do i raise complaints against open reach engineers and BT with ?
I would rather not pay for an engineer who disregarded the problems. that have once again returned and can now be shown to happen with equipment he said was working fine.


Sorry for the long ranting post

[Glenn]

If you are hearing a lot of noise on your line, log a voice fault with your line provider.

[OllB]

The noise will go away when the net is not connected, can i still raise a voice fault under these circumstances ? When the router re syncs the noise returns. When asking BT to do a line test they have always told me to make sure the line is not in use and remove any internet equipment from the socket.

This is my fathers line and he is the one who pays for the line rental and the internet on this line, he just does not have time to deal with these problems. I have done all that i can for him at the moment and unfortunately not been able to sort this out.

This is very frustrating as the email from support suggests that the equipment is to blame when all is in working order. I think i will give up for now and take a break from trying to have this resolved and have my father phone support to talk to someone about what could be going on. He just prefers i deal with this sort of thing as he is not really knowledgeable about the internet etc. and is normally too busy to deal with this sort of thing.

[OllB]

Router stats graph showing the problem tht started again at about 1pm attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Glenn]

The noise will go away when the net is not connected, can i still raise a voice fault under these circumstances ? When the router re syncs the noise returns. When asking BT to do a line test they have always told me to make sure the line is not in use and remove any internet equipment from the socket.

I would tend to agree with support then, if the noise is only apparent when the router is on. Have you tried another router on the line?

[Steve]

Anything in the house that fits in with those times i.e heating,washing machine etc? Are the line filters ADSL2+ spec?

[OllB]

The routers are fine i've tested with 3 different ones, i even bought a new one at the weekend to make sure. the phones are fine that i have tested with. I'm on adsl max (i like the download allowance so i can watch iplayer and the no contention for when the connection is used for gaming) and filter that in use is ok. The problems with the line are not coming from any of my hardware or anything in the house. I've moved the router away from anything that could effect it. Turned off electric sockets near the wires coming from the phone socket. Done everything and anything possible to rule out any problems internally. From what i understand i cant touch anything after the master socket faceplate so spent 2 weeks making sure that it's nothing before it.

Something is up with the line it could be that someone else in the street has something dodgy connected but it is not coming from this property. From what i can tell the line just cant handle having a modem/router plugged into it and using voice at the same time. It will be ok for 24hrs at most then problems start again.

[Glenn]

It is a very strange problem

[Rik]

I'm with Glenn, if the noise appears when the router is on, then your equipment has to be suspect. Try double-filtering the phone, ie two filters in series, and see if that helps.

[OllB]

i know it sounds like it is the equipment but it has all been replaced at somepoint since these problems started, the engineer came round on a day the problems were not showing and confirmed that everything was fine that i have is fine. I'll try the double filter thing next time the fault comes back. It was gone for 35hrs according to router stats but then came back at about 2pm yesterday and stopped at some time last night.

I've tried noting down the times it appears and goes to see if they could show someone else on the street turning something on but it can happen at any time of day really but mostly after 2pm.

Is it possible for a line to have too many people connected to it and not be able to keep up with all the phones and broadband from the houses connected to that particular line ?

[Rik]

No, a line is individual from your house to the exchange. You can get crosstalk when there's a large number of subscribers on a cable, but that wouldn't show up as the sort of problems you are experiencing.