Speed deteriorated - IDNET not interested. What can i do?

Andy1967 · Feb 14, 2010, 20:16:48

Hi all,

I'm an IDNET customer who has seen my download/sync speed decrease significantly over the last 2 months. I've never has a brilliant speed due to the distance from the exchange, but for the last 18months or so, this has been a steady 1.2mb/s. Since December however, this has crashed to 300kb/s. In todays age of content rich websites with large hi-res pictures and flash components, this means the internet is now unusable in my house.

I've complained to IDNet on a number of occasions and they reset the SNR at the exchange, and while this improves speed for an hour or two, it quickly declines backdown again.

I've also done everything support have suggested.

The router is now connnected to the master test socket
The router is away from electrical components
Removed any extension wiring
Fitted a IPlate

My neighour. Immediate neighbour this is, less than 10ft from my house, is with BT. Again while his speed is not brilliant, he gets 1.6mb, and has not seen a decline that i have.

IDNET now want to charge me £170 to arrange an engineer visit to fix what is clearly a problem with my connection. I find this scandelous. Quite simply they are not really interested. They tell me they cannot control my connection speed, and that it is due to factors outside of their control. They cannot explain why a house 10ft away gets 3-5 times the speed i get.

I'm now fed up with them, and want out. I've requested my MAC from them, and will look for alternative options.

Anyone any final suggestions?

regards

Andy

PS - Anyone any experience of using mobile broadband connected to a wifi router (e.g. 3's MiFi) for home use?

Glenn · Feb 14, 2010, 20:25:38

Andy, the charge is normally applied, only if the BT engineer can't find a fault with your line. As you have done as support have asked, it would seem that the fault lies on the BT side of the master socket. Do you have any stats available?

Have you tried a different router?

If it is a line problem, then moving provider will not fix the problem.

Steve · Feb 14, 2010, 20:32:28

Mobile Broadband's ok if your provider has a 3G signal in your area,you can often get a dongle for a minimal fee. I have a 3 dongle probably giving similar speeds to what you had previously.

kinmel · Feb 14, 2010, 20:32:34

You are having a bad time of it, but unfortunately the problem is not with Idnet's equipment.

BT Openreach own and maintain all the telephone equipment and cables up to your house. Even if you could move to a LLU connection, the same line from the exchange will be used by whatever ISP you choose to move to and your problem will remain too.

The £170 callout charge is to BT not IdNet, if a fault is found on the BT line rather than in your house then you won't be charged.

Please read all this help FAQ if you haven't already.

Have you tried a different router ? For such a long line we recommend the BT2700HGV Business router, they are readily and cheaply available from EBay. I can even lend you one if you pay the return postage.

On very long lines such as yours, it is very common for neighbours to get very different connection speeds.

If you must move from Idnet then seriously consider the "We guarantee to fix your line" offer from AAISP

Supanova · Feb 14, 2010, 20:34:46

If your neighbour is doing better on BT, I would switch to BT. I would imagine it's cheaper.

On the other hand if you switch and find your connection is still bad you will probably still end up potentially paying for an engineer to come to your house.

I would make the switch, especially if you feel badly treated/neglected by the IDnet customer service (which is one of the main reasons most of us are here), but that's just my personal opinion. Be wary of 12 month contracts....they trap people for a reason

BTW if you happen to be in an O2 ADSL2 area I can thoroughly recommend them as I have had a couple of years of flawless service and excellent customer support. AVOID the 'access' package like the plague though.

I have been told before that switching ISP's would not fix the problems I was having in Yorkshire, but low and behold I switch ISP's and the problem vanishes.

Andy1967 · Feb 14, 2010, 20:35:05

Glenn,

This is not what i have been told by Simon at IDNET. He said i have to pay the cost, and if a fault is found then i get a refund. This a lot different.
I have no faith in this system. Even if BT find a fault and fix it, what is to stop them saying no fault so they can keep my money?

I have not tried another router, and can't see practically how i can do this, without buying a spare. Would IDNET be prepared to lend me a 'test' router?

What stats do you want from the router?

Andy

Glenn · Feb 14, 2010, 20:44:39

Andy, the stats will look something like below;

DSL Modulation Mode: G.dmt
DSL Path Mode: Interleaved
Downstream Rate: 7072 kbps
Upstream Rate: 832 kbps
Downstream Margin: 3 db
Upstream Margin: 12 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 38 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 10.5 db
Downstream Transmit Power: 12 db
Upstream Transmit Power: 5 db

Do you have any audible noise on the line when making a voice call, crackling or crosstalk (hear another conversation)?

Andy1967 · Feb 14, 2010, 21:03:05

Glenn,

Stats are below..

ADSL Statistics

Mode:    G.DMT
Type:    Fast
Line Coding:    Trellis On
Status:    No defect

     Downstream    Upstream
Rate (Kbps):      1504    448

SNR Margin (dB):      5.6    18.0
Attenuation (dB):      58.0    31.5
Output Power (dBm):      11.9    16.0

Super Frames:      1998624    1998563
Super Frame Errors:      1339      17
RS Words:      0      0
RS Correctable Errors:      0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:      0    N/A

HEC Errors:      832    6
OCD Errors:      5    0
LCD Errors:    0    0
Total Cells:      120519300    0
Data Cells:      482038    0
Bit Errors:      0    0

Total ES:      1094    0
Total SES:      2    0
Total UAS: 14    0

There is no audible issue with telephone call quality ; No crosstalk, hissing, crackles or background noise.

Andy

Steve · Feb 14, 2010, 21:28:01

Andy, has the adsl ever had interleave in place?

Andy1967 · Feb 14, 2010, 21:36:18

Steve,

I've been reading about interleave on the FAQ... I'm not aware of ever having to have this changed from the default. I notice it introduces a little latency, but as i don't do internet gaming it's probably not an issue for me (though i do use video conferencing which it might impact)

So it be on or off for best performance and how do i check what it currently is?

thanks

Andy

Andy1967 · Feb 14, 2010, 21:42:01

Since starting this thread, my SNR has gone from a steady 6 upto 8.6, and the sync speed has dropped from 1500 to 730.

Don't know if someone at IDNET is trying to tweak settings. Are the admins on here from IDNET?

Andy

Glenn · Feb 14, 2010, 21:47:04

Andy, we are customers, like yourself, IDNet staff do read the forums though.

Steve · Feb 14, 2010, 21:48:10

Looking at the stats I think interleave is off as Type = fast, it should in theory be introduced automatically if the error count is sufficiently high enough for the DSLAM at the exchange to turn it on. So I am guessing that your error count is not too bad. Apart from that your stats look fine to me,the other thing that springs to mind is a congested Virtual Path at your exchange (your neighbour although on the same exchange may not be on the same VP) but presumably IDNet have "cleared" your exchange as the source of the slow throughput.

Sorry just noticed the resync how often are they happening?

Glenn · Feb 14, 2010, 21:53:49

The stats are similar to mine, but I can't see why it connects 1500kbs slower?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Simon · Feb 14, 2010, 23:16:13

Hi Andy, and

I can't help technically, but I can confirm that the threatened call out charge from BT is not charged up front, so it wouldn't be a question of trying to get your money back if no fault is found. I know this, from personal experience about three years ago, when I had to call them out myself, due to my having no phone connection at my new address. A friend of mine also had to call them out more recently, as he had no dial tone, and in both cases, the fault was found on BT's side, and no charge was made.

Andy1967 · Feb 15, 2010, 00:16:56

Quote from: Simon on Feb 14, 2010, 23:16:13
Hi Andy, and

I can't help technically, but I can confirm that the threatened call out charge from BT is not charged up front, so it wouldn't be a question of trying to get your money back if no fault is found. I know this, from personal experience about three years ago, when I had to call them out myself, due to my having no phone connection at my new address. A friend of mine also had to call them out more recently, as he had no dial tone, and in both cases, the fault was found on BT's side, and no charge was made.

Simon,

Thanks for this... However i'm in a bit of catch 22.. I tried contacting BT and they refuse to send an engineer as they insist it must be done through my ISP as it's broadband related. IDNET refuse to log a call with BT unless i pay them £170 upfront!

I'm thinking of jacking all this fixed line rubbish in and resorting to a Mobile Broadband. That i have to rely on radio signals to get broadband when i have a perfectly good wire running to my house is just beyond me. There is definately a case that broadband in this country is going backwards except for the fortunate few that live within 200 yards of their exchange, who can now get a mind blowing 24mb/s. Meanwhile, the rest of us make do with speeds that are that slow that i could write faster!

Andy

dujas · Feb 15, 2010, 00:46:23

My guess is that Idnet are preempting BT Openreach being unable be able to find a fault and will just put it down to the apparent long line length, hence a call-out charge.

I don't know which brand of router you use, but DMT (DSL-Modem Tool) can tell you if your ADSL connection is interleaved or not, tracks error rates, and will also show any gaps in the frequently spectrum where external noise is preventing data transmission, thereby reducing the overall connection speed. (v8.07 is for Netgear).

Another program is Routerstats, which if left running over a period of a day or so, would show you fluctuations in SNR margin over time.

BT Speedtests run two to three times a day would also be useful. Basically you need to investigate what is happening, i.e. has the ADSL signal strength deteriorated permanently against the background noise, or is it only being affected at certain times of the day. Unfortunately it'll probably be a battle to get anyone interested in finding a cause and a solution

Den · Feb 15, 2010, 07:37:35

Andy, I live about 2 miles from our exchange and I believe some of the cabling is alloy but with perseverance and a 2wire 2700hgv router I have got my speed up to over 6300 downstream even though BT said I would never better 2000 downstream. First you need to find out why the noise on your line is so high and then take up Allan's offer for the 2wire.

Simon · Feb 15, 2010, 08:46:26

I know it's not the main issue, but I think it's an important one, so I have asked IDNet to clarify when the BT call out fee is charged.

kinmel · Feb 15, 2010, 10:24:50

I think Andy's best option is to give AAISP a month to fix the line, if they can't, then no one can. At least that option costs nothing.

If Idnet are now charging BT's £170 up front and other ISPs aren't, a lot of people will simply move when they have a problem.

Simon · Feb 15, 2010, 11:49:02

IDNet are aware of this thread, and are currently looking into the issues mentioned.

Simon_idnet · Feb 15, 2010, 13:10:50

We've reset the Target Noise Margin on this line 3 times now. When we do we see the router connect at 1.2Mbps which gives a Profile of 1Mbps. This shows that there is not a fault with the line itself. However, the DLM then increases the Noise Margin to 9dB and then to 12dB which reduces the sync rate and thus the Profile drops back to 0.5Mbps.

This shows that the line is suffering from interference. From BT's point of view the DLM is behaving correctly given the charateristics of the line by reducing the connection speed to assure stability. An Openreach engineer won't attempt to identify the causes of interference as those are either in the premises or in the environment and so we do not recommend it.

We used to only be allowed to book an engineer if a fault was identified on a line but we can now book an engineer if a customer wishes to book a paid-for visit. We pass-on that cost from Openreach to the customer. However, we do not recommend that course of action as we do not believe that an Openreach engineer would help at all.

Simon

Baz · Feb 15, 2010, 13:11:52

Quote from: dujas on Feb 15, 2010, 00:46:23
I don't know which brand of router you use, but DMT (DSL-Modem Tool) can tell you if your ADSL connection is interleaved or not

its in german

Rik · Feb 15, 2010, 13:16:12

Thanks for clarifying that, Simon.

Andy1967 · Feb 15, 2010, 17:23:42

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Feb 15, 2010, 13:10:50
We've reset the Target Noise Margin on this line 3 times now. When we do we see the router connect at 1.2Mbps which gives a Profile of 1Mbps. This shows that there is not a fault with the line itself. However, the DLM then increases the Noise Margin to 9dB and then to 12dB which reduces the sync rate and thus the Profile drops back to 0.5Mbps.

This shows that the line is suffering from interference.
Simon

Simon,

I do not doubt there is interference that is causing the loss of speed, however i have done as you have asked me and plugged my router into the test socket thus eliminating any noise that could be being introduced by anything i've done within my house. Therefore the only other source of noise should be between the exchange and my property. As my neighbour has not had a decrease in speed then it is reasonable to further assume that no noise is being introduced on the bulk of the line length. Maybe it is a loose wire or damp, or gremlins at my property junction box, i don't know, but what i do know is that if i tamper with anything outside the property then i am acting illegally.

Andy