Was my connection deliberately throttled?

[azkin13]

During the last 4 weeks or so my speed appeared to drop considerably from about 12Mb down to 5Mb even though my router indicated otherwise:

Data Rate(Kbps)     
         15320                      834
Noise margin (dB)    
         2.9                              7.2
Output power (dBm)    
         12.4                      21.1
Attenuation (dB)    
         31.0                      16.7

I have the summary graphs from www.speedtest.net to show this detoriation.

Yesterday I put a complaint in to Idnet and suddenly tonight my speed is back up to 12Mb +
******************************************************************
This is a test I did tonight on BT:
Test 1 at BT 19.00 24/02/2010
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13091 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 16.48:20.93:62.59 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
********************************************************************************

I have done further speed checks on www.speedtest.net and these now compare with the BT test.

I feel this is too much of a co-incidence.....have others had this experience ?

I'm not happy about it and am in discussions with Idnet by email.

Any comments or feedback appreciated.

Thanks

Az

[Niall]

Is it just on speed tests that you're seeing this or when you actually download files?

Just wondering as the BT speedtest thing showed me a complete load of rubbish the other week when I'd switched to the new 21cn line. I was getting 11mb downloads and the BT test was also telling me 5mb (approx), which I could clearly see was wrong.

[Steve]

I am not aware of any throttling performed by IDNet,there is supposed to be plenty of capacity on IDNet systems. BT has had local exchange congestion with hot VP's and 21CN congestion issues recently. Obviously from the information supplied everything is now looking ok. Incidentally when your throughput was poor was this mirrored by a reduced router sync?

[kinmel]

I have been with Idnet for 4 years and have never heard anyone else complain of throttling by Idnet.

Are you sure that Idnet did not raise your problem with BT when you complained yesterday and BT have now corrected a problem.

I will be very shocked if your accusation proves to be true, Idnet's business model is based on NO throttling.

[Lance]

Quite simply, IDNet do not throttle. It sounds like there was maybe a stuck profile, noise margin reset or BT did something in the exchange.

[Niall]

Or a borked speedtest site.

[azkin13]

Hi all, I'm not accusing idnet, I just asked the question, as it was such a co-incidence that after complaining about the reduced speed that it suddenly went back, in a few hours, to what I expected and was used to.  It could be they have passed it to BT and it was a problem in the exchange but the reply I got back from idnet did not say anything about that, it just asked me to do a few tests on the BT speed test web site which I'm doing.  I had noticed my browsing over the last 4 weeks was pretty sluggish though even though my router kept saying I had a good connection "15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)".

Thanks for the responses, I will post again when I have heard back from idnet again.

Cheers

Az

[Lance]

We realise that you're not accusing IDNet (hell, you are allowed to anyway!), but I think the responses where trying to make it clear that the problem was not one of IDNet throttling. It will be good to hear back support's response.

[azkin13]

One of the reasons I went with idnet (after Supanet) was because they don't throttle, not that I download much anyway, I prefer to pay more for a reliable and fast service because of work. I have always given 5 stars to idnet on thinkbroadband and speedtest.net...etc  Maybe this was a BT issue in the exchange, dunno until they get back to me.

Thanks

Az

[Simon]

As has been said, it's more likely that it was another problem, which has been revolved following your complaint. 

[Technical Ben]

Hi all, I'm not accusing idnet, I just asked the question, as it was such a co-incidence that after complaining about the reduced speed that it suddenly went back, in a few hours, to what I expected and was used to.  It could be they have passed it to BT and it was a problem in the exchange but the reply I got back from idnet did not say anything about that, it just asked me to do a few tests on the BT speed test web site which I'm doing.  I had noticed my browsing over the last 4 weeks was pretty sluggish though even though my router kept saying I had a good connection "15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)".

Thanks for the responses, I will post again when I have heard back from idnet again.

Cheers

Az

I really cannot believe your response azkin13. Perhaps all those other badly performing Broadband providers have skewed your expectations from IDNet. But what are you complaining about? They fixed your line. Very quickly. You would not get that kind of service anywhere else (except maybe AAisp).
You should be over the moon that they fixed it. It's not uncommon for little faults or changes on a Broadband connection. Even the weather can change things. If IDNet change anything, I am sure they will be 100% honest and up front. Even with throttling, they could keep custoemrs this way. But as they run the service so well, they do not even need throttling. They have the spare bandwidth to serve all their customers. Great job! 

[azkin13]

This is the response I have had back tonight from idnet today:

"The service is rate adaptive, and will fluctuate slightly depending on the line at the time, the system in the exchange is automatic and will vary the speed depending on circuit noise, we do not throttle your connection."

I don't have a problem with that, I know the speed will fluctuate occassionally, but not from 12Mb down to 5Mb and stay there for 6 weeks on the trot.  Not when my router is giving me these figures for the same period: DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM).

They go on to say:

"Results you have got from speedtest.net have been unreliable and inconsistent. Please use the BT speedtest in future, this has continuously shown that your connection is running within the acceptable range of speeds for your connection on each time we have requested demonstration of the problem."

I do have a problem with this paragraph, speedtest.net results have been _consistent_ with speedtester.bt.com and thinkbroadband.com results I did.  In the last sentence  "this has continuously shown that your connection is running within the acceptable range of speeds for your connection on each time we have requested demonstration of the problem (my italics)" I am assuming that when they say that, they have only requested this demonstration since I reported the problem - 2 nights ago.  In which case, as I have said previously, after reporting the problem to idnet the speed suddenly increased back up to 12MB and the four tests I did with speedtester.bt.com and speedtest.net were comparible with this - so yes my connections at those times were correct.

Tonight however I now have a slow connection again:
BT Test:
Download speed achieved during the test was - 5899 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 22.55:28.53:48.92 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Speedtest.net result:

speedtest.net result earlier

and thinkbroadband.com showed my download speed tonight as only 2MB :-)

So I don't know what to make of it all....

Az








Thanks

Az

[Steve]

Az  I think you need to carry on reporting your BT speedtests to Idnet,it's the only information that BT will accept when Idnet discuss your connection with BT. I appreciate the difficulty of accessing this server and ones own frustration when other sites give comparable results.

Have you checked your exchange status @ http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/ although this site is not up to date in real time it can give an indication of exchange congestion?
Are you seeing a pattern to the slow throughput i.e is it slower in the evenings and fine during the day?
What's the error count like on the router stats?

[azkin13]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong I think idnet are a great ISP, but lately I've been having these issues.  Anyway I have followed your link to the exchange I'm on and all the green boxes are ticked except for the CGI scripts orange which is not important I don't think and there has been no major outages over the last month.

VP capacity at this exchange is currently showing as Green.
Click here for further details   
Colour: Green   BT have advised that this exchange is enabled for WBC on 21CN

I have a Belkin F5D7633uk4A wireless router, but there is nothing in there about error counts!!!  Currently it shows my connection as:

Data Rate(Kbps)
        Down                            Up     
         15320                      834
Noise margin (dB)    
         2.8                              7.2
Output power (dBm)    
         12.4                      21.1
Attenuation (dB)    
         31.0                      16.7

I have not seen any pattern to this except that from early Jan until 2 days ago my speeds were around 5MB until I reported it to idnet then it suddenly jumped back to 12MB for a day, now I'm back down to less than 5MB!!!!!  During Nov/Dec my download speeds were between 10 and 12 MB no matter what time of day or night, even at peak periods and I was very happy with that.

I will continue to use the BT speed tester and send backthe results to idnet as requested, but I will also continue using comparitor speed test sites for reference.

Thanks...

Az

[azkin13]

Just done another BT test and it is getting beyond a joke:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 939 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 23.22:19.28:57.51 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.


Az

[Steve]

Az That speed test is below the acceptable range so it is perhaps in a bizarre way more useful ammunition for IDNet to give to BT than a 5000kbps one.

Your router stats see http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php note the hidden pages. Lastly I presume these are wired ethernet tests and have you got another router to compare speeds with as some routers perform better on adsl2+ than others.

[azkin13]

Hi Steve,

I tried that link to the hidden pages stuff, very good info, but my router didn't respond to the url for stat errors, I'm on firmware version 1.00.25, don't know if that is a factor.

Yes I am on a wired connection to the router.  I have another router (Netgear DG834G still in it's box) I could try but this Belkin has been so reliable I didn't think it could be the problem.  I will try the other router at the weekend if I have no solution from idnet by then.

Cheers

Az

[Rik]

Hi Az

It looks to me like a BT capacity issue, whereabouts are you.

[Steve]

Thats my impression but not seen much on 21CN congestion on the AAISP site lately, who have incidentally had their own issues with 20CN congestion. They do suggest BT21CN congestion is still occurring with hot VPs and thus traffic priority seems to be a solution albeit at a cost.

[ST Driver]

Hi AZ

I used to have a belkin router it was reliable and showed no signes of being a problem despite having simerler problems on adslmax.
Following advice from members on here I changed the router, no more problems were had and infact I had a better profile.
Hope you get things sorted as I know what its like watching your through put fluctuate so much.


Steve

[azkin13]

@Rik, hi Rik I am on the Cramlington exchange 01670, when I followed Steves link to check the exchange it showed no issues....

Tonight when I got in from work I did a speed test on BT and got this:

Test at 18.30
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13924 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 20.68:21.75:57.57 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Then later I got this:

Test at 22.10
Download speed achieved during the test was - 1971 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 18.92:34.5:46.58 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

I'm not quite sure where the problem is but will swap the router out tomorrow, but I don't think that is the problem.

Cheers

Az

[azkin13]

@ ST Driver, Steve, thanks for your experience, I will change the router over the weekend and see what happens and post back here. Thanks for taking interest.

Regards

Az

[Steve]

To me that looks like exchange or BT network congestion.

[Rik]

I agree, Steve. There's nothing else that would explain that kind of speed range. Unfortunately, BT will argue the service is in spec.

[azkin13]

Hi Rik, Steve,

I've been doing a few speed tests throughout the last couple of days and here are the results (latest test first after setting up the Netgear when the speed started to drop on the Belkin at 2pm today):

Test at 16.53 27/02 (Netgear)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 11427 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15880 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 24.1:22.47:53.43 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 13.57 27/02 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 7981 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 12.63:27.67:59.7 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 10.47 27/02/10 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13195 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 14.54:22.71:62.75 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 07.10 27/02 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13634 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 15.22:22.52:62.26 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 02.33 27/02 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13393 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 14.81:21.85:63.34 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 22.10 26/02 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 1971 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 18.92:34.5:46.58 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Test at 18.30 26/02 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 13924 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :15320 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 20.68:21.75:57.57 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

I'll do regular tests with the Netgear and see if the speed drops off at busy times which was what appeared the case with the Belkin.  Incidently I did comparison tests on speedtest.net and the results were consistent with the BT tests.

Cheers

Az

[Rik]

I find speedtest.net, using the Maidenhead server, to be generally consistent with BT tests, without the fuss or the three-hour wait. Of course, it's no good as evidence for BT.

As you're getting speeds higher than your profile in some tests, you may want to turn off your AV software whilst testing.

[Steve]

My next busy exchange time is late Sunday afternoon.

[Rik]

The 6 o'clock Sunday syndrome, Steve? That's always been the worst time of the week in my experience.

[alan]

I find speedtest.net, using the Maidenhead server, to be generally consistent with BT tests, without the fuss or the three-hour wait. Of course, it's no good as evidence for BT.

.
I think its been reduced to One hour between tests now Rik.

[Rik]

I haven't looked lately.

[Ray]

It has, Alan, I noticed when I used it yesterday.

[azkin13]

My speed tests on BT and Speedtest.net are consistent in that if it's slow on one it's slow on the other and visa versa ....they both now show the speed to vary considerably throughout the day since early January. Prior to this I had a constant 10-12 MB no matter what time of day or night.  I would be interested in seeing other idnet customers speed fluctuations over the same period?  Because mine are starting to remind me of how Supanet went back in the dark days.  I find that between BT and the ISP's they generally blame each other for these speed variations....

[Glenn]

Did the connection drop again at 6pm today?

[azkin13]

It started dropping after 4pm today and went down from over 12 MB to just 2MB by 9pm 

[Steve]

I think we are going over the same ground again, Idnet do not throttle, if they did there would be many similar complaints as we would all be suffering similarly.I am convinced that you are suffering from BT related congestion either at the exchange or your associated VP. Have you had any recent response from BT via Idnet regarding the BT speedtest which was below the minimum threshold.

[azkin13]

Steve,

We are not going over the same old ground, I asked the question - do idnet throttle, if they don't then I'm trying to get a difinitive answer as to why my speeds are dropping all the time since Jan when they were fine for months before then......what are your speeds like, do they fluctuate like mine do?  Nobody has posted any stats of their own speeds for me to compare with, why ? ....except ppl saying idnet don't throttle....is it the BT exchange or some other reason.....I just want to know, is that difficult to comprehend.....

[Niall]

Mine is slower than normal looking at that. I was getting 12mb down with 0.89 up, yesterday. That being said I don't really trust these speed test sites anymore as they were reporting slower speeds than I was actually getting, the last few times I've tried it.

DownStream Connection Speed     11960 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed    863 kbps

These are my stats for today.

[Simon]

Each line is different, so people posting speed comparisons is pretty useless, unless there is a widespread issue, which it doesn't appear that there is, otherwise there would be a lot more posts on here.

I am convinced that you are suffering from BT related congestion either at the exchange or your associated VP.  Have you had any recent response from BT via Idnet regarding the BT speedtest which was below the minimum threshold.

I don't think anyone could give you better advice than Steve has.

[Gary]

Just to show my speed is about where it has been for the last few months, no slow downs at all. This is ADSL MAX

[Niall]

Mine seems to hover around the same speeds on this speedtest.net. If I download a file though, I'll get nearer 12mb.

[Rik]

I'd echo what Steve has said, Az. This has all the hallmarks of a BT issue, either a hot VP or a congested exchange. I see no variation in my pitiful 3.5M line at any time.

[Lance]

I never see a variation in my 8mb (7150 profile) line either. Runs full pelt any time of day or night.

[Technical Ben]

I am not aware of any throttling performed by IDNet,there is supposed to be plenty of capacity on IDNet systems. BT has had local exchange congestion with hot VP's and 21CN congestion issues recently. Obviously from the information supplied everything is now looking ok. Incidentally when your throughput was poor was this mirrored by a reduced router sync?

azkin13, Steve was your second post. Being an administrator, he is not an IDNet spokes person. But that's the most you will get on an unofficial forum. Until an employee posts here at least (they are under no obligation to). If you received a email or phone call from IDNet, I would believe them.
I'm getting to the point where I no longer trust any business. Although that is probably to extreme, as there are still honest people around. I do believe IDNet is still one of them.

[D-Dan]

My speedtests are consistent whatever time of day I try, and whichever day I choose they are always in the top 5 at DSLZone, and I get consistent results at both BT and speedtest.net. My profile is 6,500 and I always get throughput at around 6.2 Mbs.

Steve

[azkin13]

Simon, Rik, thanks for the feedback, yes Steve may be right that it is congestion at the exchange, but my disappointment is with idnet for not giving any reason for the huge fluctuations I have been seeing, down to 2MB from 12MB over a period on Sunday.  Not even suggesting it is congestion at the exchange. This is what I received a couple of days ago from idnet support:

"There are currently no faults within the exchange which BT are reporting. The nature of the service means that it is likely you will see some fluctuation in speed, particularly at peak times however service should remain within acceptable ranges. Please ensure any tests are carried out using a wired connection rather than wireless."

I don't think 1000-99999 Kbps is an acceptable range, that is a cop out for BT and the ISP's in my opinion.

This is my speed test tonight on the BT site:

Test at 17.52 08/03/2010 (Belkin)
Download speed achieved during the test was - 12557 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :13688 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 12000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 13.85:24.15:62.01 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

and I am happy with that sort of speed which was what I had been seeing constantly when I upgraded my service with idnet last year.  It's the wide fluctuations in speed _happening now_ thats annoying because no-one officially will tell me what is causing it.  I'll accept that Steve is probably right, congestion at the exchange, shame that idnet or BT won't confirm this 

Cheers all and end of rants on this subject from me now....I'll live with it...I still believe idnet are one of the better ISP's...

Az
ps Tech Ben and D-Dan, glad your speeds are constant whatever time, day or night, mine used to be like that too until Jan onwards....but I don't see reduced router sync speeds...they are always around 14000-15000 Kbps downstream.

[Steve]

There is probably a way out but it will cost more per month and that is to get traffic priority at the exchange.Have the weekday evenings been any better since the Olympics finished?

[D-Dan]

Oh - I never thought of that - and I'm pretty sure I pay for priority here. Sorry to muddy the waters.

[Rik]

Az

The acceptable speeds are purely a BT cop-out. As long as your speeds remain within that range, all ISPs are stuck with being unable to raise a fault with BT. It's a bit like buying a car which has a top speed of between 30 & 120mph. No car manufacturer would get away with that, but BT can.

[Simon_idnet]

To take the analogy a little further; it's like a car manufacturer saying that they can supply you with a car that can go at 120mph but also pointing out that during rush-hour the roads might be so busy that you won't be able to go that fast. Now, if you wanted to buy your very own road so that we could guarantee that you would never be sharing it with any other cars we can do that. Of course you'd have to pay the full cost of that road as the cost couldn't be shared with any other drivers...

We have asked BT if azkin13's exchange is showing any congestion and they've said not. The evidence indicates otherwise but without any concrete admission we would only be speculating.
Simon

[Rik]

Thanks, Simon, I like the extended analogy.

[Simon]

I'd like my own road! 

[Rik]

The nearest we ever get is the M6 toll.

[Glenn]

My dad had a 1/20th share of a country lane, does that count 

[Simon]

Has he filled his pothole in, Glenn? 

[Glenn]

That was why he had a share, to get it paved then adopted by the council.

[azkin13]

Just as an update, I suspect BT have done something to stabilise the wide fluctations at my exchange.  My speed has dropped from over 12MB at the beginning of March but has become constant at around 10MB since the 17th March.  This is better than it dropping to less than 2MB as it was doing a a few weeks ago.

Hopefully one day it will go back to the 12.75MB I got as my best speed. :-)

Regards

Az

[Steve]