ADSL2+ disappointment...

peterbeaumont · Mar 04, 2010, 19:59:01

My local exchange was recently converted to ADSL2+, so I upgraded.

11 days in and (apart from the increase in upstream speed), I basically have the same performance as before.

Router stats...

Rate: 5040 kbs 875 kbs
Max Rate: 5040 kbs 876 kbs
Noise Margin: 5.9 dB 7.9 dB
Attenuation: 45.5 dB 24.9 dB
Output Power: 19.7 dBm 12.4 dBm

Ok, so maybe I didn't expect wonders, but if 5040:8000 = 5040:24000 makes sense, then maybe that musty, yellowing mathematics degree in the bureau drawer was a practical joke?

BT myths rule, ok?

Glenn · Mar 04, 2010, 20:08:27

Peter, what does a BT speedtest show on your line?

peterbeaumont · Mar 04, 2010, 20:19:12

Download Speed
4044 Kbps

0 Kbps 7150 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 4044 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :5040 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 874 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 15.65:21.96:62.39 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes

Glenn · Mar 04, 2010, 20:33:31

To me it looks like the profile is stuck, maybe a stale session. Try powering off the router for around 30 minutes, that may clear a stale session. Have you spoke with support about the connection?

peterbeaumont · Mar 04, 2010, 20:37:50

Yes, I have been in touch with Support, they said that the rate I achieved at the end of the 10-day training period was probably the best I could expect from the line.

I'll unplug the router for a while and start again later.

peterbeaumont · Mar 04, 2010, 21:32:35

I powered down the router and this is what it now shows:

Down Up
Rate: 5154 kbs 875 kbs
Max Rate: 5154 kbs 876 kbs
Noise Margin: 6.2 dB 6.5 dB
Attenuation: 45.6 dB 24.8 dB
Output Power: 19.9 dBm 12.5 dBm

I'll have another look tomorrow.

Hatari · Mar 04, 2010, 21:35:15

I would have thought with a 45.5dB attenuation on ADSL2+ 6MB would be good and for that the line would have to be interference free. Do remember that ADSL2+ uses up to 2.2MHz to transmit the BB signal rather than 1.1MHz of G.dmt or ADSL. It is therefore more susceptible to interference.

If you have extensions or a Skybox, if you have not already, try removing the ring wires. See broadbandadvice.org.uk ring wire article

Steve · Mar 04, 2010, 21:40:27

Its up to spec though for the sync rate, the IP profile of 4000K is correct,I believe adsl2+ has been known to run with a margin of 3db but as Hatari said you would need to be noise free. Just wonder whether a BT2700 HGV would perform better.

peterbeaumont · Mar 05, 2010, 08:03:47

Without wishing to sound ungrateful to the last 2 posters, I'm not interested in the technicalities (and my router is a 2-Wire, the internal socket/filter/wiring/sky boxes/rf devices/waffle-maker etc. etc. are all ok.

My only point was - and I return to my original comment...

If 5040:8000 = 5040:24000

Then just what is the point of it all??? Do I now have to wait another 10 years until FTTC hits my street?

DorsetBoy · Mar 05, 2010, 08:14:56

Quote from: peterbeaumont on Mar 05, 2010, 08:03:47
Without wishing to sound ungrateful to the last 2 posters, I'm not interested in the technicalities (and my router is a 2-Wire, the internal socket/filter/wiring/sky boxes/rf devices/waffle-maker etc. etc. are all ok.

My only point was - and I return to my original comment...

If 5040:8000 = 5040:24000

Then just what is the point of it all??? Do I now have to wait another 10 years until FTTC hits my street?

Yup, the only thing is to wait for fibre/cable/LLu.

I moved 5 years ago and my ex neighbour was surprised at the 5540 he got when Max was introduced as the exchange was not exactly close by. ADSL2 came along and the upgrade resulted in a huge (not) leap to 6200.

The attenuation of the line is what governs the throughput you can achieve .Closer to the exchange and you would see a much different story.

Hatari · Mar 05, 2010, 08:18:13

Peter, I can understand the frustration. As you know the further you are away from the exchange the slow the broadband speeds. ADSL2+ is capable of giving greater speeds and longer reach. Theoretically with an attenuation of 45.5dB it makes a difference of about 0.5 to 1M, which assumes everything else is perfect.

So simply you are unlikely to see any major speed improvements at your distance from the exchange.

zappaDPJ · Mar 05, 2010, 08:47:24

Quote from: peterbeaumont on Mar 05, 2010, 08:03:47
Then just what is the point of it all??? Do I now have to wait another 10 years until FTTC hits my street?

I understand how you feel, my connection took a dive when I switched to WBC once BRAS kicked in and that was on a much lower attenuation that yours. On the positive side I believe you do get a more generous usage allowance so it's not all gloom.

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 09:29:40

I, otoh, gained 1Mb on a 57db line. The whole thing rides on the quality of the line, Peter, as much as the attenuation/length. Try running Routerstats for a 24 period and see what is happening to the noise margin.

peterbeaumont · Mar 05, 2010, 12:25:07

Ok thanks for all your comments...still makes me wonder about whether our country will ever have a truly high-speed internet infrastructure for people living more than 3 doors down from their local exchange.

One other question though - if a particular service provider has an LLU presence at an exchange, does that offer a potentially better or faster service? Or are the constraints exactly the same as those via the BT system?

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 12:31:59

The last mile is the same whatever provider you go to. The only benefit of a move to LLU is to do away with the annoying BT profiles, which can offer some speed improvements, as can the tweaking of the line that Be, for example, offer. I've just been involved in a trial of this, shortly to be launched by BT, and IDNet got an extra 1Mb out of my line.

Hatari · Mar 05, 2010, 12:43:12

As Rik says, it is that last link the line from the exchange to the home that is the cause of all the slowness. Now if we actually get Fibre to the cabinets everywhere then there is a chance that we could catchup with other countries

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 12:44:01

Only they'll have moved further on by then.

Simon · Mar 05, 2010, 12:45:37

Pessimist!

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 12:47:51

Realist.

Hatari · Mar 05, 2010, 12:57:47

But then the cost of fibre to the home will be relatively cheap

and it could be a choice thing

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 12:58:47

The choice atm is to pay significantly more, of course.

Glenn · Mar 05, 2010, 13:04:07

Is there a price plan for FTTC connections?

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 13:13:54

Not that I'm aware of, Glenn, but BT were charging about £40pm iirc.

Lance · Mar 05, 2010, 15:12:05

Here are BT retails prices: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=29017

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 15:13:28

That's way cheaper than I thought, Lance.

Lance · Mar 05, 2010, 15:15:23

Certainly makes it an easy choice once BT have enabled the exchange!

Niall · Mar 05, 2010, 15:16:00

Strange that they seem to think security is less important if you have the cheaper package.

Rik · Mar 05, 2010, 15:20:36

You're forgetting this is BT, Niall.

joe · Mar 06, 2010, 08:24:48

Are the benefits of BTInfinity fibre optics going to be available to all or only BT customers. I see that my area is scheduled for Sep-10 (if that can be believed).

Steve · Mar 06, 2010, 08:32:50

My thinking is LLU should be able to pick it up at the exchange,otherwise with a widespread FTTC roll out they would be non competitive on ADSL2+ only.TalkTalk have been involved in FTTC trials

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/news/talktalk-joins-fttc-trials-794.html

Hatari · Mar 06, 2010, 08:34:33

Whether other than BT customers can get infinity will depend on whether the other ISPs contract to buy it from BT at your exchange

Steve · Mar 06, 2010, 08:44:25

We have to my knowledge one forum member involved with FTTC trial with IDNet

john365 · Mar 06, 2010, 19:58:19

I get Line Attenuation Down =58.5 dB up=29.0 dB and a bit rate of 4683 Kbps down and 995 Kbps up, according to BT I should be getting 6meg.
cest la vie!

Although is does sometimes shoot up to about 5 meg, well that was before migration yesterday, I am guessing Ill have to wait for the 10 days for the line rate to stabilise on the adsl2+ service as I was on a max product before.

Tonight its all seems very sluggish.

I have tried testing this before with a different router and on the test socket, is doesn't seem to make a difference. I think im stuck with it, as Cable has never reached this street its highly unlikely we will get fibre any-time soon

Join the slow broadband club.

Tacitus · Mar 06, 2010, 20:14:08

Quote from: john365 on Mar 06, 2010, 19:58:19
I get Line Attenuation Down =58.5 dB up=29.0 dB and a bit rate of 4683 Kbps down and 995 Kbps up, according to BT I should be getting 6meg.

You should be so lucky. I have an attn of 55dB and I'm struggling to get a reliable 2Meg connection.

john365 · Mar 07, 2010, 06:38:27

Back in the bad old days I would be lucky to to get 300 baud from my Epson modem.. hang on, isnt this part of the thread a sketch by the Monty Python team ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Hatari · Mar 07, 2010, 08:11:30

Quote from: john365 on Mar 07, 2010, 06:38:27
Back in the bad old days I would be lucky to to get 300 baud from my Epson modem.. hang on, isnt this part of the thread a sketch by the Monty Python team ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Lovely they were the days lol

peterbeaumont · Mar 07, 2010, 08:39:22

One final post...before I give up and be grateful for what I have.

I just did a BT speedtest...

Download speed 5793

DSL connection rate 5578

IP Profile for your line is 4000

Is this unusual? Or a peculiarity of ADSL2+?

On ADSL Max, I never saw an actual speed higher than the line profile.

Hatari · Mar 07, 2010, 08:41:20

I would guess those figures are from the BT tester.

What is the actual connection rate on the router?

peterbeaumont · Mar 07, 2010, 08:53:57

Yes,those figures are from the BT Speedtester - isn't that what I originally said???

And my router is operating at the figure shown there too.

Steve · Mar 07, 2010, 09:06:20

The only time I've seen a download speed greater than router sync speed is with concomitant use of AV software, Kaspersky Internet Security Suite being a classical culprit. It does say in the FAQs "Please close all other applications/ browsers that are running on your PC."

Hatari · Mar 07, 2010, 09:42:32

Quote from: peterbeaumont on Mar 07, 2010, 08:53:57
Yes,those figures are from the BT Speedtester - isn't that what I originally said???

And my router is operating at the figure shown there too.

Thank you Peter

Always need to be sure before jumping onto the keyboard.

I would normally expect the speed to be between 80 and 85% of sync.

Agree with Steve this could be cause by AV software, although that is normally a much greater difference.

Try booting the PC (assuming windows OS) in Safe mode with Networking and redoing the speed test.