IDNet e-mail : My exchange has been upgraded to 24mb ADSL+ : Questions !

[netn00b]

Hi

I got this e-mail from idnet a week or so ago about my exchange being upgraded to handle 24mb broadband !

Now when you struggle to get more than 2mb that sounds exciting - although being cynical it sounds too good to be true !

After a busy week with a new job last week i though it was time to come back here and ask a few question about this e-mail and should i upgrade and what can I expect to get ?

The small one off fee is not a problem ( i currently pay monthly and would prefer to remain doing so....). I will need to see if i have to buy a new router i guess and check if my existing netgear will work with adsl2+

Looking quickly this morning at a couple of threads it seems i'm unlikely to see much difference ?  Can it make my connection worse ?  Are there any downsides ?

It sorta looks like a no-brainer to upgrade ?

Thanks....

[Glenn]

What are you current line stats, and what router do you have?

I would be surprised if you line is running at it's max, if you see any improvement, there is an increased bandwidth allowance however.

[Rik]

You're unlikely to see much in the way of speed improvements, but just occasionally, it does happen on longer lines. What's your downstream sync speed, line attenuation and noise margin?

There have been no reports of issues with Netgears, so unless you have a very old model, you should be OK.

It can make your connection worse, ADSL2+ is more sensitive to noise than ADSL1. However, BT have just trialled a new system which will allow ISPs to override DLM and, this has worked well for me, gaining 1M in speed. I don't know when the system will go live though. In a worst case scenario, IDNet can have your line modulated as ADSL1, despite being connected to an MSAN, so the risks of worsening the connection are small.

Downsides, small upgrade cost and a new 10-day training period. Upsides, larger data allowance and higher upload speed.

[netn00b]

just got this from speedtest site.

what is the bt speedtest address ?

when you say what is my downstream sync etc does that mean i need to log into my router to get those figures ?

my router is a netgear dg834g v2

[Rik]

You do need to log in to your router, type http://192.168.0.1 in your browser address bar and hit the stats button.

The BT test is at http://test.speedtester.bt.com:50301/

[netn00b]

thanks rik.

ok router says....

ADSL Link                     Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed             1408 kbps     448 kbps
Line Attenuation                 49 db         14.5 db
Noise Margin             2147483647 db      23 db

[Rik]

That downstream noise margin is negative, your line is just clinging on by the skin of it's teeth. I have a much higher attenuation than you,  but achieve more than double the speed. Does the router drop sync frequently? How are you connected to the phone line, eg extension socket or lead, or straight into the master socket? What else is connected to the line?

You might benefit from a 2-Wire 2700 router, given those line stats.

[netn00b]

lol yeah it sure it.

its cr4p tbh and always has been.

umm it drops sync in that i get disconnected from games now and then. sometimes its fine for days other tims it does it a couple of times in an evening.

connected via a cable to the back of the router and its into an extension socket in the study.

nothing else is connected....well just an adsl filter atm.

whats a 2 wire 2700 router and why would it benefit me given my line stats ? (and is it ok for adsl2+?)

ok just rechecked stats and now its :


ADSL Link                          Downstream      Upstream
Connection Speed               1408 kbps          448 kbps
Line Attenuation                     49 db            14.5 db
Noise Margin                          6 db              23 db

looks a bit more normal with a 6 and not that large number!

[Rik]

How is that extension socket wired, ie is it a self install or a BT? Check to see what wires are connected at each end, you only want terminals 2&5 connected, and they should be paired, eg blue/white & white/blue.

Do you have no phone connected to the line?

[Rik]

whats a 2 wire 2700 router and why would it benefit me given my line stats ? (and is it ok for adsl2+?)

Not available in retail channels, you get them from eBay, average price £10-15 delivered. They are BT badged routers and exceptionally good on poor lines, many of us use them, which is why we have the dedicated board for them.

ok just rechecked stats and now its :


ADSL Link                          Downstream      Upstream
Connection Speed               1408 kbps          448 kbps
Line Attenuation                     49 db            14.5 db
Noise Margin                          6 db              23 db

looks a bit more normal with a 6 and not that large number!

That large number was actually a negative number, which is theoretically impossible, but Netgears cling on with very poor noise figures. It looks as if you have some significant noise pick up, about 8db, either on the premises or externally. Did you have any electrical appliances running when you took the first set of stats.

[netn00b]

no phone in the house is connected to the line but there is one across from the house in another building which is into an extension socket afaik.

the socket where i am is hard to get to so opening it to see what wires are connected is somewhat difficult.

what do you mean by electrical apppliances......there are 2 pc's running and my laptop.

afaik everything was installed by BT.

[Rik]

Where's the master socket, is that easy to get at?

Electrical appliances: central heating, washing machines, dishwashers, hair driers etc.

[netn00b]

you mean one of these Rik.....

BT 2700HGV GATEWAY Business Hub SILVER WIFI Certified

This is new and sealed in the original box.

The BT Business Hub is a high-performance integrated router with technology optimised to improve ADSL performance. The hub gives wireless connection to all the office or home broadband devices and services. It has WPA, WEP and built-in firewall security.

The Hub includes an integrated wireless access point, allowing users to roam throughout the home or office.  It has high-powered wireless technology that virtually eliminates wireless coldspots and it also has a special triple antenna design. The third antenna is used only for transmitting packets, thus mitigating the power loss associated with switching the antenna use back and forth between transmit and receive.
--------------

master socket afaik is the one in the kitchen and easy to get to. i seem to remember removing it before when posting here about it having a test socket inside which is did not.....

nothing like those appliances running, although i wish the central heating was on atm !

[Rik]

That's the router. 

Take the master off and check how many wires are connected to the extension, and on which terminals. (Grab a photo if you can.)

[netn00b]

master socket has 5 wires going into 3 holes.....labelled 2,3 and 5.

[Glenn]

disconnect 3 http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm then do the same to any extensions.

[netn00b]

gulp !

[Rik]

It's not as bad as it sounds, and can make a huge difference to performance.

[netn00b]

ok done the master socket.

can barely get to the socket the router is into but having got he faceplate off the orange wire is connected but no screw to release it so not sure how i can get it out esp as access is so bad and not resolved due to size of furniture obstructing it

[Rik]

I take it that socket is using IDC connectors, the wires are just pushed down into the terminals? If so, just lift them out with a pair of long-nose pliers. Otherwise, you can just snip them.

[netn00b]

yeah i guess that's wot it is.

cant get close to it as behind furniture.

ok will aim to cut it off perhaps.

if this makes any difference how soon will it be noticeable ?

[Rik]

Immediately. Your noise margin should increase if the bell wire has been impacting performance.

[Glenn]

Waiting with baited breath 

[Rik]

That puce colour is really not you.

[netn00b]

do i need to reset router or anything ?

or just recheck the stats ?

[Rik]

Just check the stats.

[netn00b]

i've not yet been able to remove or cut the wire in the extension socket only the master one......



ADSL Link                   Downstream            Upstream
Connection Speed          1408 kbps              448 kbps
Line Attenuation               49 db                 14.5 db
Noise Margin                     6 db                   23 db

[Glenn]

OK, so you may have a big aerial at the moment.

[Rik]

No change, you're unlikely to see one until you disconnect at both ends.

[netn00b]

big aerial 

disconnect at both ends 


sprechen sie English 

[Rik]

The reason we recommend disconnecting the ring wire is that it acts as an aerial for noise. As ADSL works in the MW band, a long piece of wire can pick up a lot of stations (noise). Unless it's disconnected at both ends, it is simply an aerial for interference.

[Glenn]

Like an aerial, the ring wire can pick up lots of unwanted frequencies, causing interference on the 2 wires that you need, this can slow the ADSL connection. By disconnecting both ends, it removes the wire from the circuit.

[netn00b]

so by both ends you mean disconnect it from all extension sockets ?

[Rik]

Indeed.

[netn00b]

ok will have to go through the house and other building tomorrow to make sure all are done !!

ty for help.

[D-Dan]

Just to add - if it's at all practical, plug the router into the master socket rather than an extension (with the filter, of course) and use extended Cat5e/Cat6 ethernet cables to connect to your computer. This will help remove another aerial from your setup.

Steve