problems connecting

[Monk]

Sorry, Posted this as a reply to 'Coincidence?' before.

Ever since the BT upgrade my internet is playing up. I have great difficulty connecting and have to plug/unplug my router until I get the front page. The connection status on My NETGEAR DG834G v3 says CONNECTED!  but the front page does not display. Also, when someone rings and I pick up the connection disappears although the status still says connected. Yet again I gave to plug and unplug things. I have the router plugged in my master socket to which I have a splitter attached. The phone still works. My question is where do i go from here? What could be the problem and how can it be solved? I'm afraid I am not very well informed in this are. Also, I'm using Windows 7 and was told that the router might not be able to cope with that. There is a tool on my computer which can test router compatibility but it also warns you that during the test the router might shut down completely in which case I am reluctant to carry out the test as i need the connection. I would be grateful if any of you IDNETTERS can provide some information or suggestions. I am on 0208648 and cannot see myself in the BT exchange fire list.

[Rik]

What upgrade do you mean, Monk?

A router falling over when the phone picks up is usually caused by a poor filter, so try changing that. The v3 is a bit old, so it might be worth upgrading, but let's see what else we can work on first.

[Monk]

 Thank you for answering. I meant BT 21 Century upgrade. I had an email from IDNET telling me that this will take place. Now, I've just put a new filter in- Vivanco, telephone aqnd modem double adaptor.

[Rik]

Have you tested whether the modem still drops? As you've been moved to an MSAN (we all will be in time), your line characteristics will have changed and it will be more sensitive to noise.

[Monk]

No I havent and to be honest have no idea how to...

[Rik]

Pick up the phone, that may be enough. If all is well like that, call your number from your mobile or dial 17070 and select option 1, ringback. Put the phone down and the exchange will call you back.

[Monk]

Sorry for the delay. I did that. The phone rings, i pick up, the lights on the router start flashing orange and the connection on the computer goes down. I then click diagonose connection problems and it says that the conectivity to the modem is expernicing difficulty. I had tp unplug the modemand wait before plugging back in to enable the connection again.

[Rik]

Can you borrow a router from someone, or try your router on someone else's line?

[Monk]

No, I haven't got another router and my neighbours would be reluctant to use it on their line especially  now (easter), they might think it's catching!. I can add though, that I've had similar problems before- i.e. when someone rang the connection would drop but i was always able to reconnect even if someone was talking on the phone. Now i can't at all unless I unplug everything. Do you think it's the router?

[Rik]

It's a strong candidate at this time. Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the type where the bottom part of the faceplate can be detached?

[Monk]

No, my socket is very basic and havent been changed at least for the past 15 years-ever since we've been here. I was actually thinking if it needs replacing with something up to date and since BT's upgrade, perhaps it's not able to cope?

[Rik]

It's not a question of the socket coping. The NTE5 allows you to expose, and use, the test socket. This is the entry point of the phone line. If the problem persists there, your internal phone wiring is not to blame. Do you have multiple extensions? If so, what's connected to them?

[Monk]

I have an extension going from that socket to my bedroom but it is not in use at the moment- nothing is plugged in there.

[Rik]

How confident are you about fiddling with the phone wiring?

[Monk]

Sorry, got disconnected and then had to go. Not very confident if it requires a lot of knowledge but if it's something easy, then I can give it a go. What did you have in mind Rik?

[Rik]

Take each socket off the wall (two faceplate screws) and look at the connections. The terminals should be numbered 2-5, you only want wires connected to 2 & 5, and they should be a 'pair, eg blue/white and white/blue. Anything on terminals 3 (in particular) and 4 should be gently pulled out of the jaws of the terminal and neatly rolled up out of the way. The wire on terminal three is known as the ring wire and acts as an antenna, picking up noise and pumping it into your circuit.

[Monk]

Thank you. See what I can do. If you don't hear from me, them things have gone wrong and I have no phone at all 

[Rik]

 

[Monk]

this is going a match the colours game. I have 5 terminals in my first socket. Now, Terminal 5 has light and navey blue wire attached to it Terminal 2 white and pink and terminal 3 green. I can follow (I think) your instructions Rik but would you mind clarifying what you mean Pairs? Do I connect 1blue (which one dark or light) to terminal 2, let's say and white to terminal 5 OR did you mean blue/white to only one terminal either 2 or 5.
Sounds simple when you read but I want to absolutely sure!

[Rik]

Conventional BT wiring contains four or six cores, Monk. They should be colour code blue/white, green/white and orange/white, with the pair being made up from the white plus same colour. Pairing is important as each pair is twisted, and this reduces the noise pickup. The most common arrangement is for the blue/white pair to be used for the first line into the premises, the green/white for the second line (if any) and the orange/white for the ring wire.

TBH, I've never seen a pink wire in standard BT installations, any chance you could post a photo?

[Monk]

Took a photo but how can I post it here? Also, I have 2 cables going into this socket, one from the extension so maybe that's why I have extra colours. Either way, this is becoming  confusing. I'm thinking of perhaps calling in BT to have a look at this socket?

[Monk]

Is it possible that what I interpret as pink, might in fact be orange?
i've found this link although my socket is different inside.

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html

[Rik]

Took a photo but how can I post it here? Also, I have 2 cables going into this socket, one from the extension so maybe that's why I have extra colours. Either way, this is becoming  confusing. I'm thinking of perhaps calling in BT to have a look at this socket?

Hit the reply button rather than using quick reply (if you do), then hit the additional options button and attachments. Max size is 512k. Think long before calling BT, it will cost you £170.

[Rik]

Is it possible that what I interpret as pink, might in fact be orange?
i've found this link although my socket is different inside.

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html

Entirely possible, but I'd like to see the 2 & 5 connections anyway.

[Steve]

I recently had to go to friends to sort his extensions I've never seen so many colours not connected . He needed a quick fix to a dead socket as the Sky installer was at the house. I just paired up 2 colours red and black if I recall as the twisted pair colours weren't there, so red went on 2 at each end and black went on five at each end. Job done Sky man happy.Friend happier as installing an extra socket from the sky man would have cost extra.

[Monk]

Let me know if it gets through Rik. Also, thank you for your patience.

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[Monk]

Lucky man Steve!
Rik the photo has been sent although I assume it will reach you through your personal email. Please let me know when it does.

[Steve]

The photos fine you've got 2 'extensions' wired into 2 and 5 one with the correct twisted pair. You can safely remove the green wire from terminal 3 but don't forget to detach from the other socket aswell

[Monk]

I'm finding it difficult to remove the green wire. Is it safe to pull it out with something? It's really embeded.

[Steve]

The direction it needs to come is upwards. If the sheath has not been stripped from the wire end and it was inserted using one of those socket tools, the connector cuts the sheath as its pushed down and makes the electrical contact so its quite a snug fit.

[Ted]

I'm finding it difficult to remove the green wire. Is it safe to pull it out with something? It's really embeded.

What you have there is the old LJ 2/1A master socket. As steve says, just pull the wire directly up from the slot, long nose pliers will make it easier.

The Blue, Orange, green and Brown cable are the old , 4 wire colours.

[Rik]

I guess a builder installed the socket?

[Ted]

I guess a builder installed the socket?

Probably just an old original. Its worth checking the other end of that incoming cable, as its old. There will  more than likely be an external junction box, something like this or this. Take the cover off, usually just a single screw and make sure the terminals aren't corroded, full of spiders, damp etc.

[Monk]

Thank you to everyone who's contributed to my post. Especially Rik. The wiring in both sockets has been done as advised- a real achievement for a woman who has not got a clue about wires! The phone still rings so I must have disconnected only what was necessary. Unfortunately the connection is still playing up ...but thanks to you my dear IDNETTERS (Ted and Steve) I've had a look at my little junction box, which is placed in my porch. It DOES look acient but what is more interesting, one of the wires seems to be sellotaped. I'm including the photos and I'm beginning to think this is the real problem... I'd appreciate your opinions. Is that a job for BT and if so, do I call them myself (will they listen?) or do I do it through IDnet?

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[Rik]

That doesn't look too bad to me, tbh, though I'd probably remake the right-hand connection from the incoming pair, ie loosen the screw, put the wire back under the washer and tighten it. Technically, you shouldn't do this, but I'd give it a go myself.

The pair into the house is the normal blue/white and white/blue, is that what you're seeing at terminals 2 & 5 of the sockets. If so, that's all you need.

[Monk]

Oh!! and I thought I was near solving the problem  The two top wires are from the outside and they are both grey. The bottom ones go into the house and are blue and blue/white. There are no terminals numbered here, Rik so it's difficult to say where the cables are attached. Do you count them from the top/left/up/down? I think there is nothing much I can do here anymore... will fix the screws as advised though.

[Rik]

That's a BT drop wire, unhelpfully coloured and not twisted, Monk. Just remake that joint (power the router off first) and that should cure any issues with that box.

I realise there are no numbered terminals at the junction box, what I was checking was that your internal connections were using the blue/white pair?

[Monk]

I have cleared up the box as advised, the problem's still there though. So it's going back to the router/modem thing, isn't it? I give up..

[Rik]

Try a quite line test, dial 17070 option 2, and listen. You should only hear a minimal background hiss or hum. Anything more, particularly crackles, and report it to BT (or whoever you pay line rental to) as a voice fault, making no mention of ADSL.

If the line is quiet, then it's fairly important to try an alternative router before involving BT though IDNet.

[Monk]

ok. thanks Rik

[Monk]

IT's working!  Disconnected the extension as advised and changed the filters for more expensive ones. You get what you pay for... unfortunately. All seems to be back to normal at the mo. Thank you very much to everybody.

[Rik]

Glad to hear you're sorted, Monk, thanks for letting us know.

[Steve]