Long line - 2700hgv

[BenC]

Hi,

I live in a rural area, and believe I am on a long line. I have a 2700 hgv, and reading around this site it seems the router/firmware I have may not be the best for my line. The version I have is:

Hardware Version:     2701-100589-005
Software Version:    5.29.117.3

I just brought it on ebay, pre flashed with the singtel 5.29.117.3 firmware.
These are my stats:

DSL Line (Wire Pair):     Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol:    G.DMT2 Annex A
Downstream Rate:    1430 kbps
Upstream Rate:    280 kbps
Channel:    Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:    11.2 dB (Downstream) 9.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    63.0 dB (Downstream) 42.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    15.9 dBm (Downstream) 12.0 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information:    Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBD71}
PVC Info:    0/38

My ISP is talk talk, and am on 9db interleaved profile (ISNR9). This weekend I will be fitting a new adsl box to replace my ageing old wiring (hopefully improving my connection) once doing that I was going to try there 6db profile (ISNR6) and hopefully it will stay in sync.

My question is, is this the right firmware for my situation? If not, is there anything I can do to improve things?

Thanks for any help,

Ben

[Glenn]

Ben 

From the 2700 guide, it looks like the firmware you are running isn't suited to long lines http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/051.htm. Kinmel, or one of the other 2700 experts may tell you which firmware is best suited to it. 

There are other things that you can do whilst checking your wiring, if fitted, remove the ring wire from ALL sockets http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm shows you how to do it.

[Steve]

  Ben

As Glenn said the default margin is 8db on the Singtel firmware. Not  a user but others will advise,I presume you can flash with BT recovery firmware to get the default of 6.

[Rik]

Welcome to the forum, Ben.

[BenC]

Thanks for the very quick responses lads.

I have already removed my ring wire  . I just read the 2700 guide, which is a very good site.

I don't know much about the different margins, the only thing I know really is what my ISP told me:
9db = Slower + but more stable
6db = Faster + but can be less stable

I did try the 6db option but my connection wouldn't hold, so went back to 9db. So after doing a bit of research looked for the a router that works best on long lines and 2700hgv seemed to be the daddy.

How does the default margin on the Singtel firmware effect my connection? (Sorry if a stupid question)

[Rik]

It doesn't if your target margin is already set to 9db, tbh.

[Steve]

But you'll never be able to see if the 2 wire will hold your connection at 6db on that firmware as the minimum is 8.

[MisterW]

As all before have said you will need to reflash with a BT firmware to allow a target SNR of 6db.  AFAIK the only BT firmware available publicly is 5.29.107.12 ( link in the tripod site here http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/041.htm ). I'm running that quite happily on my live 2700 here, it also has voip enabled ( whereas the Singtel cant be reconfigured ). Have a good perusal of the tripod site ( http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGV.htm ) its THE place for info on the 2700.

[kinmel]

We recommend that you change to firmware version 5-29-107-12, You can download it from HERE and then install it using  Tripod's Guide ( ignore the fact the Guide is for another Firmware, the process is the same )

As ever any firmware regrade is at your own risk, but it has been done successfully 1000's of times


PS  Sorry MisterW, I wrote at the same time as you did, but our advice is the same   

[quandam]

Ben C

May I add my two pence worth. I am no techie but I think there is a lot of hot air spoken about the 2700 hgv or whatever its name is. There are so many variables re 2700 firmware that you could go mad trying to sort it out, to me if you have a long line then that is what you have and no router from BT will make a significant difference.

I know that what I have said will stir up several heavy responses from others here, but facts are facts and with a long line you could well have problems  and  a 2700 router will make very little (if any) difference to your problem.

If you want a perfect 2700 hgv router for £5.00 and will pay for the postage then PM me and I will send it to you asap.

I'll now stand by for some serious flak but this is my view of the situation

[Rik]

I think you're outnumbered, Q. For a lot of us, the 2700 has been a miracle router, for a few it hasn't.

[quandam]

I have no doubt I am outnumbered Rik, that is normal, but truthfully how many have really (really) benefitted from the use of a 2700? Common sense tells me that if they were so great why are they available on ebay for peanuts (literally) after being 'dumped' by BT for updated and presumably improved versions?

[Rik]

They're not dumped by BT, but by BT customers, Q. I don't know their reasons. Suffice to say that a lot of us here use them because we have seen a clear and measurable performance improvement from doing so. Most of us have longish lines.

[Steve]

The Earth is flat isn't it.

[Glenn]

I get around 500k - 1mb improvement with a 2700HGV compared to a Netgear 834v3 or Thompson 858 router, both of which I have tried.

My friend, who is on BT, changed his router from a v1 home hub to a v2, his connection has improved from 2mb - 6mb.

[BenC]

Thanks for all the responses everyone,

I've had a good read of the bt2700hgv.tripod page, very informative.

I think I will try to downgrade to the 5-29-107-12 version, so at least I can try a faster db profile.

Are there any disadvantages to running 107-12?
As I wonder why it would have been flashed with 117-3, (which seems not to be as good)

Quandam, cheers for the offer. I might take you up on it if I brick my current 2700hgv  

[Rik]

No disadvantages that I know of, Ben, I'm running 107.12 happily.

[BenC]

Cheers,

One question, if I find 107.12 not as good as 127.13 can I revert back? Or is it a one way process only?

[Steve]

As long as you don't get upgraded to version 6 by BT you should be ok.

[Glenn]

Nothing wrong with V6, Steve, I'm using it now.

[Gary]

I have no doubt I am outnumbered Rik, that is normal, but truthfully how many have really (really) benefitted from the use of a 2700? Common sense tells me that if they were so great why are they available on ebay for peanuts (literally) after being 'dumped' by BT for updated and presumably improved versions?

When I had a long line i gained over one and a half meg up on my old router and it ran rock solid at that with the 2700 Q, no routers I had tried before did that, I'm on a short line now with max sync, but the 2700 really made my line more usable before.

[MisterW]

They don't just benefit long lines, they basically have MUCH better ADSL modems than most routers. Take my line for instance , I've got about 30db attenuation ( at 300khz ) , with my old router ( a Belkin 7630 ) it would synch at about 7mb at a 6db target but would drop the connection 2 or 3 times before settling on a 6500ish sync and always had to turn the dam thing off at night cos it ran so hot!!. Getting the 2700 means that it synchs at 8128k with a SNR of 8db , rock solid for weeks ( months! ) on end, it only ever gets turned off ( cos 2700's also run nice and cool ) when I go on holiday!!
@benc,
AFAIK there's no chance of 107.12 being upgraded cos the servers its configured for dont exist anymore.
The only version prior to 6 that potentially could still get upgraded in 117.6 and the tripod site explains how to prevent the upgrade, which reminds me I must do that to my spare one ( which is running 117.6 ) in case I have cause to use it. 

[Steve]

Nothing wrong with V6, Steve, I'm using it now.

I meant that with v6 you can't reflash it again .

[Den]

Are you stirring again Q ?     I was told by BT that my line was capable of up to 2mb and then I bought my first 2wire, I am now running another one with the latest software version and between Idnet and the 2wire I am now downloading at 6.3mb and believe me I am two miles away from the exchange. I also changed the guy next door over to Idnet and using a 2wire we lifted him from under 1mb to about 6mb so the 2wire is worth it's weight in gold.   

[Lance]

I would imagine that a lot of the BT business customers already have higher spec routers (in terms of wireless N, gigabit ports or simply have a perfectly good setup already and don't want to rock the boat, hence selling them on ebay.

[kinmel]

I have no doubt I am outnumbered Rik, that is normal, but truthfully how many have really (really) benefitted from the use of a 2700? Common sense tells me that if they were so great why are they available on ebay for peanuts (literally) after being 'dumped' by BT for updated and presumably improved versions?

I have bought a fair number of 2700HGVs on Ebay and most of them came to me still polythene sealed in their original packaging.

BT continues to issue this router to all new business customers automatically and most of these businesses are happy with their existing network equipment, indeed making unnecessary equipment changes is best avoided.

Hence most of these routers end up on Ebay when an enterprising employee sees one sitting unopened in a cupboard for months and gets "given" it.

I have installed 2700HGVs on 15 long phone lines for family, friends and colleagues and on every occasion I have seen worthwhile gains in throughput and stability.

I was recently invited to join the SamKnows/OFCOM Broadband Monitoring project, but it would mean using a FREE Linksys WRT160NL router on my line and I certainly won't give up the 2700HGV 

[BenC]

I have now downgraded to 107.12, and done bit of phone cable re-wiring and everything seems to be running well.

Thanks to everyone one who has helped me in this thread 

I'll get my ISP profile changed to a 6db, and hopefully the 2wire will manage to hold onto the the connection.

I've got a new settings page called 'fusion settings', what's this fusion thing? Do I need it? Can i turn it off?

Also, on the wiring side of things I got rid of my old master box and fitted an adsl box (didn't wire the ring wire). However my drop wire comes into my house and enters a terminal box, then travels a couple of meters to my master box.

• Should I disconnect the ring wire in the terminal box?
• Do you think I should buy a new better terminal box (my old one is 25yrs old), and use a higher quality cable to the new master box?

I am aware of BT's t+c's  , however I just want to get the best connection.

[Ray]

  Ben.

[kinmel]

Fusion allows you to grant others a wireless internet connection without them seeing you network.

I use Fusion for occasional visitors who need internet access while they are with us.

[Simon]

I would also think that a lot of BT customers flog their routers on eBay, because they are unaware that they can be unlocked to perform with other ISPs, and a lot of people leave BT!