Can someone explain to me how IMAP works?

Simon · Jul 18, 2010, 23:30:03

In idiot terms, please!

I'm trying to convert my POP3 IDNet account to IMAP, so that I can synchronise mail with my phone. I set the account up, on my PC, and started copying mail from the POP account to the IMAP account, but then I found that all the disc space was being used up, because the mail was sitting on the server, as well as in my IMAP Inbox on the PC. This also applied to another folder of mail I moved to the IMAP account. How do you download mail into the PC mail client, so that it's removed from the server, as it would be with a POP3 account?

pctech · Jul 18, 2010, 23:44:17

As far as I understand it the messages stay on the server until you delete them even if you've opened them in the client.

Simon · Jul 18, 2010, 23:49:56

Oh, that's a bit pants, then.

All I want to do is get the Sent messages off my phone, onto the mail client, but I don't want to have to use Outlook to synchronise, as that isn't my default mail client.

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 06:53:19

I use IMAP on the phone and POP on the desktop . The Mac Mail app has the option with the POP3 account of leaving a copy on the server until I move/remove it from the desktop Inbox. It means I can see recent mail on the phone and the POP3 account does the housekeeping. I would think it may be possible with other clients surely.

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 07:14:55

Yes, that's my current method, Steve, but it doesn't allow for retrieval of mail sent from the phone.

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 07:26:10

Quote from: Simon on Jul 19, 2010, 07:14:55
Yes, that's my current method, Steve, but it doesn't allow for retrieval of mail sent from the phone.

Where does mail sent from your phone get stored, on the phone or in a folder on the IMAP server?

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 07:33:17

It's a bit clumsy but cannot use an additional IMAP account on your desktop to synchronise your sent messages and use the POP3 to keep the server happy. As Gizmo said I do keep copies of sent messages on the server so they should be available from POP

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 08:14:34

Some providers allow you to use POP3 to retrieve from folders other than the Inbox, usually by using a slightly different login name. I can't see any details on the IDNet site but then I can't even see POP3 or IMAP login details...

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 09:19:52

The Idnet customer portal has a more comprehensive list of email settings

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 10:31:00

Thanks guys. I'm using POP3 on my phone, but sent emails are stored on the phone, and I can't see how to get them to store on the server. When I had the BlackBerry, that used IMAP, and I've just discovered a load of emails sent from that on the server, but even if I set up an IMAP account in my email client, the sent emails are synchronized, and will download to the mail client on the computer, but they still remain on the server.

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 10:50:48

In my email client I have a tick box to save sent emails on server

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 11:01:26

On your phone, Steve? I only have a tick box option to save sent mail on the the phone. I wonder if it would save on the server if I unticked it? Then, how to download it off the server...?

Rik · Jul 19, 2010, 11:12:42

If you're on IMAP, you should be able to download to any machine from the server, without limit to the number of machines - or did I miss something?

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 11:16:01

Quote from: Simon on Jul 19, 2010, 11:01:26
On your phone, Steve? I only have a tick box option to save sent mail on the the phone. I wonder if it would save on the server if I unticked it?

It probably won't save them at all, although you could considering doing that and Bcc'ing yourself whenever you send...

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 11:21:00

Quote from: Steve on Jul 19, 2010, 09:19:52
The Idnet customer portal has a more comprehensive list of email settings

It has a good set of instructions for doing basic configuration of POP3 accounts in various email clients, but none of them mention IMAP at all, let alone any 'magic' logins that might be available for pulling mail via POP3 from anywhere but the default mailbox.

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 11:58:08

Rik, yes, I can download them from the server, but copies remain on the sever, taking up disc space, which, it appears, can only be deleted one by one. That's a bit of a faff!

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 12:03:55

Can you not select all then delete

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 12:07:01

Quote from: Simon on Jul 19, 2010, 11:58:08
Rik, yes, I can download them from the server, but copies remain on the sever, taking up disc space, which, it appears, can only be deleted one by one. That's a bit of a faff!

You mean, delete them from the server via IMAP? Can you not move them en masse using IMAP from the Sent folder to the Inbox, whereupon POP3 could download them all and delete them from the server?

Rik · Jul 19, 2010, 12:07:57

Quote from: Steve on Jul 19, 2010, 12:03:55
Can you not select all then delete

But doesn't that also delete them from the local machines when they synchronise with the server?

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 12:11:55

Yep. I think the Bcc sounds a good choice if you need a sent record.

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 12:54:35

It seems ridiculously complex, for what seems like a simple requirement.

I tired selecting all in the webmail interface, and it didn't seem to want to.

Lance · Jul 19, 2010, 13:09:09

I think we need to be clear here.

You want to have the sent items on your computer and phone but not the server?

In that case, I don't think using imap on the computer is the right thing to do. I think you should be using pop3 to pull it down and delete from the server at the same time.

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 13:15:03

Yes to both, Lance. But how do I download the Sent folder via POP3?

Lance · Jul 19, 2010, 13:24:12

I'm just pondering that!

Lance · Jul 19, 2010, 13:29:16

A quick google suggests setting up a second account in the email client, setting it up as IMAP and only syncing sent items. It won't delete them from the server but at least the server wouldn't have received items as well.

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 13:40:59

I was thinking along the lines of a separate IMAP account, syncing, as you say, with only the Sent folder, then move them from there, within the email client, to the Sent folder in the POP3 account. Would that work?

gizmo71 · Jul 19, 2010, 14:07:28

Hmm, I'm still not sure what the structure of the IMAP account is and how it relates the POP3 account.

In a traditional POP3 account, you have one mailbox; there's no concept of Sent Items or Inbox, it's just one big mush. Sent mail is almost never stored on the server unless CC'd to the sender.

With an IMAP account, the data is presented as a bunch of folders, and it's normally all stored on the server unless explicitly pulled off; how these folders are structured depends on the server, but typically they're either distinct folders (as in Exchange), in which case a POP3 login can normally only see a single one, or by tagging the items somehow, in which case POP3 will be able to see everything (and in fact cannot normally distinguish between them).

Without any information on how IDNet's IMAP server works and how the folders it presents relate to the conventional POP3 account, everything in this thread is guesswork (or "rampant speculation" as I like to call it

). Do we even know what server software IDNet are using?

Rik · Jul 19, 2010, 14:57:18

We don't, Giz.

Simon, could you BCC sent items to an address you don't pick up from your phone?

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 16:40:01

I could, Rik, but it seems a bit of a long way round.

I will try my idea tonight, and see what happens. If I can copy the sent mail in the IMAP sent folder, to a local mail folder, I can then delete the IMAP mail, and it will remain in the local folder. In theory...

Rik · Jul 19, 2010, 16:54:10

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 23:02:47

Well, believe it or not, my method, inspired by Lance, actually works! I created IMAP mail accounts on my PC mail client, for the accounts that I have on my phone, and have set to sync just the Sent and Trash folders. I have set Trash to empty on exit. I can now select all the messages in the IMAP account Sent folder, and move them to the Sent folder on my POP3 account, thus storing them on my computer, and removing them from the server at the same time. I have yet to see if they work, but I have also set up filters that might even do the job automatically. How cool is that!

Steve · Jul 19, 2010, 23:04:05

Yipee

Simon · Jul 19, 2010, 23:10:28

I was quite pleased, and surprised, too, Steve!

Oh, thanks to everyone who helped in the thread. Turned out quite interesting in the end!

Lance · Jul 20, 2010, 12:13:48

Glad it worked!

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 12:35:39

The filters didn't work, as they only run on the Inbox, without manual intervention.

Rik · Jul 20, 2010, 12:43:51

It might be worth having a word with Martin to see if he can come up with a solution...

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 12:53:02

The filters are mail client dependent. The default is to filter the Inbox, but the other folders can be filtered manually.

Rik · Jul 20, 2010, 12:56:47

Mmm. Any other mail clients you could try?

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 13:30:00

Yes, but I don't want to. It works well enough, and it would be too much hassle to change mail clients, with 5 years worth of mail archived.

Gary · Jul 20, 2010, 13:37:36

Quote from: Simon on Jul 20, 2010, 13:30:00
Yes, but I don't want to. It works well enough, and it would be too much hassle to change mail clients, with 5 years worth of mail archived.

You have 5 years or archived mail? Wow, I delete most of mine even if its personal stuff, I hate clutter even in folders

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 13:46:52

I keep all my emails, Gary, other than obvious junk, but especially order receipts, etc. They are all in folders, however, as I like to keep my inbox tidy.

Ray · Jul 20, 2010, 16:07:16

This might be of interest to you , Simon, if you keep most of your emails Mailstorehome free version. I've been using it for about 3 years now and it's much easier to search through to find any emails you may want to check.

Rik · Jul 20, 2010, 16:29:11

Highly recommended by me too, Simon. Ray introduced it to me and I've never looked back.

Glenn · Jul 20, 2010, 16:38:18

It does have a search function, Rik.

Rik · Jul 20, 2010, 16:38:54

Glenn · Jul 20, 2010, 16:41:01

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 21:40:10

Thanks guys. I've installed it, but I'm not really sure what the benefits are. I'm not short of disc space, and already have backups of all my emails on a separate drive. Why do I need this? $:-\$

Steve · Jul 20, 2010, 21:46:06

I suppose its an organised central archive so searching,export and restoration are fairly straight forward. Its makes it all neat and tidy

Simon · Jul 20, 2010, 22:09:05

True.

Gary · Jul 20, 2010, 23:54:50

Quote from: Simon on Jul 20, 2010, 13:46:52
I keep all my emails, Gary, other than obvious junk, but especially order receipts, etc. They are all in folders, however, as I like to keep my inbox tidy.

I keep receipts but I print them out I like to have hard copies and I do keep some in a folder online for a while but I dont trust online enough to keep stuff with details of purchases I guess for any long period but I understand what you mean now.