Lower speeds

[BAP]

Since the outage we had a few weeks ago (16Hrs down ) I can now only get 5/5.3Kbps, used to get 6/6.5Kbps.
Now downstream 6655Kbps
      Upstream    1053Kbps

Was downstream 7985Kbps
      Upstream   1089Kbps
Noise 6.5db
Attenuation 39db
On 21CN
Have been in touch via email with ident, was asked to do the usual test, have been in the test socket for two weeks.
Seems a reset is in order, but so far ident has not suggested this, keep asking me to do tests.
Fed up now, seems this 21CN is one big con. I am now getting the same speeds I was two years ago.
what to do now?  

[Steve]

I think BT have capped your downstream sync i.e a banded profile. The upper limit of the band your on is 6656. The banded profile is used on 21 CN to limit the downstream sync on connections exhibiting instability and high error counts. Hence the reasons for the tests. It is possible to be un banded but unless the reason for the initial banding is solved you'll end up back to where you were or worse.

[BAP]

Thanks.
Me thinks you are right, the time BT get Fibre all over I will be long gone to a or 

[exxos]

talking about lower speeds



This seems to have kicked in the past few days. Used to be 600k/sec downloads now i seem to be capped at 200k ?!

[Rik]

Can you do a BT speed test and post the results, please. I'm wondering whether your profile has been dropped.

[exxos]

Looks like BT have dropped the speed on the line, says 2mb now :-(

[Steve]

That is just reporting current data and may have no relationship to your BT profile or sync speed

[exxos]

 Modem
ADSL Firmware Version    E.25.41.64 A
Modem Status    connected
DownStream Connection Speed    2752 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed    448 kbps
VPI    0
VCI    38


thats is what the router is reporting. I will restart it see if that helps.

[Steve]

We could do with the downstream margin if you can find, plus a BT speedtest

[Rik]

That 2752 would get you a 2Mb profile, what's your downstream noise margin and attenuation?

[exxos]

what site do i find this stuff out on and i will try it..

[Steve]

I'm guessing its a Netgear DG834v5 looking at the modem firmware?

http://192.168.0.1/

>router status
>show statistics

[exxos]

 Modem
ADSL Firmware Version    E.25.41.64 A
Modem Status    connected
DownStream Connection Speed    5728 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed    448 kbps
VPI    0
VCI 38

Account Name     DG834Gv5
Firmware Version    V1.6.01.34

Yeah netgear.  Looks like something odd there as speed gone up after reboot. But does not seemed to have actually helped.

[Rik]

It wouldn't, your profile needs to catch up which can take up to 5 days.

[exxos]

Connection Time     00:06:21
Connecting to server    connected
Negotiation    Success
Authentication    Success
Getting IP address    212.69.xxx.xxx
Getting Network Mask    255.255.255.255

   
System Up Time 00:07:55
Port    Status    TxPkts    RxPkts    Collisions    Tx B/s    Rx B/s    Up Time
WAN    PPPoE    9270    15030    0    5090    30276    00:07:14
LAN    100M/Full    15349    9797    0    29344    4810    00:07:37
WLAN    11M/54M    201    0    0    116    0    00:07:55

ADSL Link    Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed   5728 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   42.0 db   25.5 db
Noise Margin   14.0 db   22 db


Edit IP address removed

[exxos]

It wouldn't, your profile needs to catch up which can take up to 5 days.

ahhh ok, I will keep an eye on it over the next week then see how it goes 

[Rik]

Your target noise margin has been raised, generally in response to a large number of resyncs. You need a constant connection for 14 days and it will then reduce by 3db, repeating until you reach the default target of 6db or the line becomes unstable. Each 3db drop is worth 5-700kbps.

[exxos]

ahh, getting a little over my head maybe now, take it the line sux then ? Should I avoid rebooting the router then ? It is left on all the time, can't remember the last time it actually was turned off in fact.

[Rik]

A router should be rebooted as little as possible. I only re-boot when I have an issue, and I only power down when I am going to be away or when there is a thunderstorm close by  -  in which case also disconnect the router from the phone line.

Rebooting the router to try and gain speed can, in fact, make things worse.

[exxos]

thanks for your help! will see how it goes over the next week. 

[exxos]

ADSL Link     Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed   5632 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   42.0 db   25.5 db
Noise Margin   16.0 db   23 db




downloading at about 450k now. Arn't higher noise figures worse though ?

[Rik]

Yes and no. In fixed-rate ADSL, the higher the noise figure the better. With rate-adaptive services, BT start out with a 6db target noise margin. That gets raised in increments of 3db if the line is unstable, until stability is achieved. The maximum figure is, in theory, 15db, but if you boot when there's a lot of noise around, the figure can become higher as the noise abates, which appears to have happened to you. To get back to the 6db target, you have to prove to BT's software that your line is now stable.

[exxos]

ADSL Link     Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed   5920 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   42.0 db   25.5 db
Noise Margin   15.0 db   22 db



Todays results, 1 db less, looks like speed dropped a fraction. I don't think it will overall go much faster on this line anyway. Just think its interesting just to see what happens

[Rik]

You should find the cause of that 15db margin, though.

[Steve]

Here is some useful information for checking issues your side of the master socket
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1904.msg31528#msg31528

[exxos]

ADSL Link     Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed   5920 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   42.0 db   25.5 db
Noise Margin   15.0 db   22 db


I will check the connections, nothing has changed here for years, everything goes though a filter. In fact theres only 1 phone and the internet connected. Though they are plugged in seperate filters into the socket.

[Rik]

What was your previous sync speed? I'd expect 7.4Mbps to 8M.

[exxos]

I cant really comment as all the ISP's have been " a bit naff" and I was lucky to get 5k/sec, which was why i moved to IDnet    Though the only ISP which was any good was demon net, but thats going back years now, never got above 200k/sec with that. I dont think it ever connected higher than about 5.5mb to 6mb though. All the ISP's have been so slow that I never really took much notice of it as it would never get anywhere near it speed wise anyway. Ive seen IDnet download up to about 750k/sec, though at the moment its down to about 300k/sec, which isn't too bad at the moment considering i just about crossed my allowance for this month anyway 

[Glenn]

July or August's?

[Rik]

I cant really comment as all the ISP's have been " a bit naff"

BT's target noise margin is usually 6db. You have one of 15db. That suggests your line is particularly noisy. Try doing a quiet line test, dial 17070 and select option 2. Do you hear anything more than a quiet hum or hiss?

[Glenn]

Also try with the router connected to the test socket behind the NTE5 faceplate (if you have one).

[exxos]

July or August's?

July

During the time period 2010-07-01 to 2010-07-31 your bandwidth use was:
42.81 GB Download - (Peak: 30.09 GB | Off-Peak: 12.72 GB)

I keep trying to download overnight instead, though my wireless is a bit naff and keeps cutting out, LAN is fine tho. Probably my iffy old laptop at fault there anyway. My main PC is on LAN, so don't have problems with that anyway.  Its really odd actually as on my mobile I can pick up wireless at the bottom of our road, but my laptop can't seem to make its mind up if it has a good connection or not. Will have to install my other USB stick see if that cures it  

[exxos]

BT's target noise margin is usually 6db. You have one of 15db. That suggests your line is particularly noisy. Try doing a quiet line test, dial 17070 and select option 2. Do you hear anything more than a quiet hum or hiss?

Thanks for that, I will give it a try a little later when the line isn't tied up. 

[exxos]

BT's target noise margin is usually 6db. You have one of 15db. That suggests your line is particularly noisy. Try doing a quiet line test, dial 17070 and select option 2. Do you hear anything more than a quiet hum or hiss?

I just tried it (router still connected) and can hear a little bit of hum and hiss..

[Rik]

That's usually nothing to worry about, all phone/lines have some noise, but it should be very much background noise. What you're looking for is crackling etc.

Do you have access to a battery-powered MW radio? If so, de-tune it, so you only have white noise, then follow your phone line from the entry point into the house right through to the router. If the noise level increases anywhere, that's part of the problem.

[exxos]

I know when we had a dacs box the line was horried, we used to have 2 lines, but when we went to ADSL it wouldn't work and we had to loose the second line which solved the problem. I think they ran out of hardwired lines at the exhange and split the one we already had. There used to be 2 lines to our house anyway (previous owner) but was disconnected when he moved out. so assume BT used the line for somewhere else.

I don't think we have a AM radio the router is upstairs and its just a long phone extension cable down to the master socket. I could try another extension cable but not sure it would help matters.

[Rik]

the router is upstairs and its just a long phone extension cable down to the master socket. I could try another extension cable but not sure it would help matters.

That's very bad practice. Can you move the router to the socket and run some long ethernet cables? Is the extension round or flat?

[exxos]

The problem is the cable has to find its way up the stairs and across the landing into the bedroom. Its a flat cable which is under the carpet. I could plug the router in next to the socket and usewireless, but I hate wireless it never seems stable like LAN, plus the printer is plugged into the router so id have to route 2 LAN cables downstairs, just can't really do it anyother way other than the long phone extension cable :-( To actually put LAN cables in would be a epic of pulling up all the carpets and floorboards. The phone cable actually just fits in gabs in the boards so it wasn't much of a problem really. Its not trapped anywhere and not getting walked on. Its the best it could be done really  

[Glenn]

The problem with the flat cable is, it is not shielded from picking up external electrical noise.

[Rik]

A flat extension cable picks up noise and will be hitting your speed. At the very least, use a round cable.

[exxos]

round cable wouldn't fit in the gaps in the floorboards from what I remember, the cable has been down for some years but i know it was a epic to route it under the carpets.  I think the other extension we had was a round cable so it might be a good idea to prove it is the cable at fault or not before considering drastic action.

[Rik]

The only way to do that is to use a round cable...

[exxos]

ADSL Link     Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed   5792 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   42.5 db   26.0 db
Noise Margin   15.0 db   23 db

Thats with another cable, so its only changed 0.5 -1db.

[exxos]

The only way to do that is to use a round cable...

I have got a really long LAN cable *somewhere* I could plug the router in downstairs and try it direct they way you suggest.. Will try and do it tonight to see if it changes anything. Im out all day monday, So will try and reply back later...

[Rik]

One solution might be to run an ethernet lead from the router to a switch. That gives you the single cable solution with the multiple cables at the business end. Bear in mind, though, that the test will need to last for a couple of weeks to see if it has any effect.

[exxos]

One solution might be to run an ethernet lead from the router to a switch. That gives you the single cable solution with the multiple cables at the business end. Bear in mind, though, that the test will need to last for a couple of weeks to see if it has any effect.

Don't think I can do it then, as I cant leave cables running all over place either.  would a screen phone cable work just as well as a LAN cable ? might be easier to just rip up the cable and put a new one in rather than trying to route LAN cables. I guess LAN would be better but will have to have a big think on how to do that one.

[Rik]

A proper, twisted pair, phone lead would be a big improvement over the flat extension. The other thing you could consider is fitting a filtered face-plate then running an ADSL Nation Pro RJ11 cable:

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=l4v9adjo64hur7vep96dv51406

(faceplates on the same site).

[exxos]

I could change the cable without too much devistation to the house. It would have to be the raw cable, its not the modem type cables, think thats the RJ11 stuff, its the larger white connections. Though the one upstairs is actually wired into a socket. Was a bit lazy downstairs in the master socket and its just got a 3way adapter plugged in. Not totally sure we are supposed to be messing with the master socket, but probably would be better to just wire the cable direct into the socket connections itself.  There used to be miles of phone cables looped around the house when we moved in, we took them all out so theres room on the master socket to put the cables in.

All we have is the master socket to a 3way adapter, one slot not used, one goes to the phone via a filter, then the extension cable in the other adapter slot, which connects to the router via another filter. Sometimes use a phone upstairs so didn't want to just wire in a modem cable.

[Rik]

You're allowed to connect to the front plate of the NTE5, so that would be the tidiest route to take.

[exxos]

I found some cable, its round, individual screened and overall.  Plan to replace the house cable with that when I have chance. been in hospital all past week so lost track with a lot of things. Just letting you guys know I will get back with the results when I have changed the cable. Was looking at the writing diagrams for the socket and little confused which one is actually ground to connect the screen too ?  It will be used for the phone aswell so presume 4 connections will be needed. Though it was a few years since I wired it up last time so one tends to forget 

[Rik]

Hope you're feeling better now.

Only two wire are required, unless you've already split the ADSL and voice, BT don't make direct provision for screening.